Got a Rem 700 in 300 WinMag - where are my tiny groups :-)

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the count

the count

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With my 700 in 308 I get down to less than 1/2 MOA at 100 yards with my best hand loads. Decided I had to get at least one high powered rifle in this lifetime so I got a used but like new 700 in 300 WinMag (stainless version). Well, that recoil is something. And I put the rifle in a heavy Choate varmint stock. You are expecting to get kicked by a mule when you aim, and then you are :D kicked by a mule! I like the big bang but will I ever get to the point where I can achieve 1/2 MOA like with the 308? I used Federal Fusion and Winchester factory ammo this first time. Both with 150 gr. bullets. Both more or less the same with 1-1.5 MOA at 100.

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This Remington 700 .300 magnum is a minute of angle gun @ 100 yards with Hornady and PMC factory ammo. It is just set up for deer hunting with no fancy stock, etc. It just has Leupold rings/bases and a Burris scope.

Might be an ignorant question on my part since I know nothing of bench rest type rifles...but, why do you have the scope mounted so high.


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If it shoots 1-1.5" now you have a decent one. To be honest, the majority of the new guns shoot 2-3" out of the box with factory ammo. Your gun has potential.

The recoil doesn't get any better. It helps to wear good hearing protection and cheat by using a thin sandbag over your shoulder. I had my wife sew a 4"X14"X1" bag filled loosely with sand. I drape it over my should when I have a range session. Works swell.
 
Captcurt said:
If it shoots 1-1.5" now you have a decent one. To be honest, the majority of the new guns shoot 2-3" out of the box with factory ammo. Your gun has potential.
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Click to expand...
I plan to load some mild rounds using trail boss powder to see how she shoots without the big kick...
 
Go over everything with a screwdriver. Make sure your scope will hold Zero. Make sure the barrel is free floated. Make sure your bench technique is sound and you are repeating it every shot. Try some bullets in different weights. Your rifle may not like 150grs. Have someone else shoot the rifle to make sure you're not flinching.

P.S. I lived in the Fayetteville-Spring Lake-Sanford area for 6 years. Many days did not have blue skies unless I was listening to the Allman Bros.:cool:
 
you could use lower rings for sure, 35mm tube or not.

as for factory guns being 2-3moa out of the box, i don't buy it. there are factory remington's shooting much better than that these days.

your mention of recoil, has me guessing that you are flinching a bit. work that out, and you'll likely see you groups shrink. also try some match ammo to get a realistic idea of the rifles capability.
 
In addition to what has been said, you'll also want to glass bed the action & then re-evaluate it with Federal Premium Sierra Matchking loads, 175gr if you can find it. The ammo you're trying is barely minute of deer, it's no match ammo.
 
Not braggin, just saying...

as for factory guns being 2-3moa out of the box, i don't buy it. there are factory remington's shooting much better than that these days.
Click to expand...

Agree. Here's a year old Remington Model Seven .308 (made right here in NC) that shoots well off sandbags. First two shots of 150 grain Winchester Power Point group less than one inch at 100 yards. After the 2nd shot, the 20" skinny barrel has warmed up and the 3rd shot goes up and to the right an inch. Not a problem...it is a hunting rifle.

Nothing fancy...no barrel floating or bedding. The scope is an inexpensive Bushnell Elite 3200. I have the standard Weaver detachable low rings because I've found none that mount the scope so low. Plus I have the iron sights zeroed at 50 yards if I need to detach a "damaged" scope.

Fine with me as it is a short and light hunting rifle and the 1st shot is the one that counts.

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GJgo said:
In addition to what has been said, you'll also want to glass bed the action & then re-evaluate it with Federal Premium Sierra Matchking loads, 175gr if you can find it. The ammo you're trying is barely minute of deer, it's no match ammo.
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Since the Choate stock is aluminum V-block bedded, there is no reason to think that adding glass bedding is going to add any accuracy.
There is an unfortunate tendency to claim that because your example of Brand-X shoots small groups, all Brand-X will shoot equally well. For a mass-produced hunting rifle in a caliber like the .300 WinMag, 1.5 MOA is doing very well; it may be as good as THIS Remington is capable of.
The OP wasn't very clear about his intentions for the gun, but given the scope and stock he has used it doesn't look it's going to be a 'deer rifle'. A heavy 26" barrel from Shaw would certainly help tame the recoil and might well shoot a lot better.

IMHO
 
GJgo said:
In addition to what has been said, you'll also want to glass bed the action & then re-evaluate it with Federal Premium Sierra Matchking loads, 175gr if you can find it. The ammo you're trying is barely minute of deer, it's no match ammo.
Click to expand...
Since the Choate stock is aluminum V-block bedded, there is no reason to think that adding glass bedding is going to add any accuracy.
There is an unfortunate tendency to claim that because your example of Brand-X shoots small groups, all Brand-X will shoot equally well. For a mass-produced hunting rifle in a caliber like the .300 WinMag, 1.5 MOA is doing very well; it may be as good as THIS Remington is capable of.
The OP wasn't very clear about his intentions for the gun, but given the scope and stock he has used it doesn't look it's going to be a 'deer rifle'. A heavy 26" barrel from Shaw would certainly help tame the recoil and might well shoot a lot better.

IMHO
 
i would change the rings to low base.you can remove front and rear sights if you are not going to use them or if they are too high for scope with lowers base rings.i assume your scope is tight and good quality.
i have 300 wby mag and shoot factory loads that get as good groups at 300 yards as those you mention.my scope is leupold 3.5x10x40 varixIII and had swift 4x12x50 with same results.used remington 150gr psp and wby 150gr spire point
i had a rem 700 in 30-06 and had great groups with 150gr factory loads as well.i never hand loaded centerfire ammo,but would think groups would be better than factory loads.
 
For me, recoil is pretty bad shooting from a bench (there's probably a way to do it right that I don't know about...). I can maintain glass on target shooting prone, but not from a bench. Shooting prone, I slightly load the bi-pod and I'm square behind the rifle. Set the rifle lined up w/ the target, get behind the rifle (body in line w/ rifle) with eyes closed, muscles relaxed, open eyes and if you're not on target, reposition. My guess is the scope will be lined up with your forehead... If you’re in correct position, recoil will be manageable.

Work on dry firing from position. Focus on 'strait back' trigger pull w/o adding any movement / torque in your grip and follow through. Dry fire several times then shoot a cartridge. If you have a friend that can help, dry fire several times then have the friend load the rifle without you knowing if there is a loaded rd in there or not. If you’re flinching, that will bust you.

Factory settings on the rem triggers can be improved a lot; you may want to discuss this with your smith. It will reduce the impacts of your flinching.
The rings are likely too high. Get an experienced shooter to take a look at you behind the rifle.
Who replaced the stock? IME, 700’s are very sensitive to torque, especially if the stock is not glassed to the action.
If you want a reduced load, skip the trailboss and load ~168gr match bullets w/ 4895.

Good luck.
 
MtnCreek said:
IME, 700’s are very sensitive to torque, especially if the stock is not glassed to the action.
If you want a reduced load, skip the trailboss and load ~168gr match bullets w/ 4895.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
what amount of torque do you recommend... i replaced this stock and the rem 700 in 308 (which is really accurate <.5moa). i just hand tighten well, but do not go beyond that resistance. and with that load you mention, how much powder for a mild load?

@southern hunter
if i get the same 1-1.5 moa at 300 yards with factory ammo that would be a good. with hand loads shooting off the lands i can shave off at least .5 moa or more.
 
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Torque specs are different depending on the stock and type of bedding. If specs didn't come with the stock, call the manufacturer.

Hodgdon lists H4895 w/ 168gr bullets. The starting load will be really light compared to factory ammo. You can reduce based on Hodgdon's Youth Loads (available on their sight), but I don't think you'll need to go that light.

If recoil is getting to you, continuing to shoot it w/o correcting the problem will just make it worse. Shoot the .308 and work on shooting position and trigger control. You want to be firmly behind the rifle. Make sure your position settles in on target w/o having to muscle the rifle onto target. If you’re muscling the rifle onto target, you have to maintain that exact amount of force, while also moving muscles to pull the trigger and during recoil; that’s too much going on IMO. If you can figure out how to manage recoil on the bench, great, but I’ve not figured out how to do it. My rifle bounces when fired from a bench, the groups look like crap and the recoil beats me up. I would get off the bench or, at least, remove the bi-pod and sandbag the rifle.

Good luck.
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with the gun necessarily. Your tiny groups are probably still back at the first place you ever fired that rifle. Just lying there on the floor, along with your nuts and your ego, LOL. I'm just saying... thats what happened to me the first time I shot a .300 winmag. I had to force myself through that experience, since I was sighting in a rifle for someone else. If I was you, I'd get myself a muzzle brake, or another rifle, lol.

Maybe I'm just a wimp, I dunno
 
Originally Posted by Edarnold

Since the Choate stock is aluminum V-block bedded, there is no reason to think that adding glass bedding is going to add any accuracy.
There is an unfortunate tendency to claim that because your example of Brand-X shoots small groups, all Brand-X will shoot equally well. For a mass-produced hunting rifle in a caliber like the .300 WinMag, 1.5 MOA is doing very well; it may be as good as THIS Remington is capable of.
The OP wasn't very clear about his intentions for the gun, but given the scope and stock he has used it doesn't look it's going to be a 'deer rifle'. A heavy 26" barrel from Shaw would certainly help tame the recoil and might well shoot a lot better.
Click to expand...

To each their own I suppose, but one time I took a Savage 308 with the flimsy plastic stock & replaced with this Choate stock, just bolted it on, and the gun went from shooting .75 MOA to around 1.5 MOA w/ the same ammo. Junk. Hence my comment about bedding. Lots of good ideas throughout the post, though.
 
Today I loaded up a few interesting rounds. All 150 gr. just like the Federal and Remington factory ammo i first shot. One batch has got 20 grains of Trail boss for a very mild load, and the other batch 56 grains of varget for a tame 'real' load. Very curious how these will group. Will shoot at an indoor range to keep weather factor down to zero.
 
GJgo said:
To each their own I suppose, but one time I took a Savage 308 with the flimsy plastic stock & replaced with this Choate stock, just bolted it on, and the gun went from shooting .75 MOA to around 1.5 MOA w/ the same ammo. Junk. Hence my comment about bedding. Lots of good ideas throughout the post, though.
Click to expand...
I had the exact same effect when I tried a B&C Medalist stock (which everybody seems to like) on my 308! Then I switched to a Choate Ultimate Sniper stock and the groups went under .5 MOA...go figure!
 
Count,

IMO Varget is way too fast for a 300 WM. I recommend you look for a slower powder with a more complete case fill. The farther you go down from 100% case fill, the less consistent your rounds will be.

I don't know what your twist is, but it's likely a 10 twist. Every 10 twist .308 bore I've owned has shot much better with ~180gr bullets than with ~150gr bullets.
 
Brief update: Went to the range to day with the rounds I mentioned above. The ones with 20 grains of Trail Boss were amazingly quiet. Like shooting a .223 with a suppressor. The 56 grain Varget rounds were comparable to a factory 308. Interestingly both grouped about the same as the 150 gr. factory ammo...1-1.5" at 100 yards. There are quite a few pro's at my range and they suggested I reload with 4350 and possibly try 168 SMKs. They said no point trying heavier bullets than that if I am staying within a couple hundred yards.

One guy said my stainless steel sporter barrel would probably need to be replaced after 1500 or so full power factory rounds. Really?????
 
How did the rifle group prior to you switching to the current stock you have it in? Maybe you've mentioned that and I just missed it.
 
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You haven't mentioned the trigger. If it isn't excellent, have it worked on by a smith. It'll make a big difference. And get a lead sled, lol.
 
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