Got made last night...not a big deal though

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Feb 5, 2006
Messages
1,717
Location
Portland, OR
I thought I would post this even though it is not much of a story. It was really a non-event but it kind of goes with some of the discussions that you see on the boards here.

As some on here know we go to karaoke on monday nights at a local club (no I do not sing so get the images of me belting out random show tunes out of your head). The guy that runs the show, and his wife, are very fond of my bf's singing (he is very good). He is a very friendly guy and has gotten to know us very well over the fast few months.

When we arrived last night I had just come straight from seeing a property and did not get to change from my daily carry set up to my wallet carry. First thing he did was come up to me from behind and put his arm around me to say hello (one of those touchy felly 60's/70's guys). His hand went straight onto my OWB holster holding my S&W 637. I was not sure what to do or say. He then patted my holster and said "uh-oh...I know what this is".

I said "yeah, I carry at work and came straight here". I was trying to sound nonchalant about it since I was not sure if he was going to think I was some kind of nut job now. Then the next thing he said was "feels like you are a revolver guy too".

Turns out he carries a revolver everywhere. I had never paid attention before but after he pointed it out I noticed the buldge under his untucked hawian shirt (which he always wears now that I think of it) at 4 o'clock. It wasn't even that well hidden once I noticed it. He said alot of people know bars pay with cash and that he gets tips during the evening and he is too old to be fist fighting with someone that would try to roll him in the alley when he and his wife were loading up their gear at the end of the night. "I mainly carry for her sake" he said.

He said he hopes people notice it and know he will use it. He has to carry it concealed because of the laws and being in a bar though.

Just goes to show how oblivious even us gun owners can be and how you never know about people. I would have never expected this "hippi-ish" ex-musician to be the type to carry.
 
Last edited:
Is it legal to carry in places that serve alcohol primarily?



In Oklahoma....................

CARRYING FIREARMS WHERE LIQUOR IS CONSUMED
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess any weapon
designated in Section 1272 of this title in any establishment where
low-point beer, as defined by Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the
Oklahoma Statutes, or alcoholic beverages, as defined by Section 506
of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, are consumed. This provision
shall not apply to a peace officer, as defined in Section 99 of this title,
or to private investigators with a firearms authorization when acting in
the scope and course of employment, and shall not apply to an owner or
proprietor of the establishment having a pistol, rifle, or shotgun on the
premises. Provided however, a person possessing a valid concealed
handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma
Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title may carry the
concealed handgun into any restaurant or other establishment licensed
to dispense low-point beer or alcoholic beverages where the sale of
low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary
purpose of the business.
 
Yes, in Oregon it is legal but not in Washington. We also have open carry in Oregon but for some reason in DT PDX you have to carry concealed.
 
not legal in Virginia

hence:

-----Original Message-----
From: VCDL President
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:02 PM
Subject: VA-ALERT: ACTION ITEM - We are 'go' for Staunton on Thursday!


We need to make sure that the city of Staunton understands that the police are not to harass law-abiding gun owners who are minding their own business and not breaking any laws. Action items follow.

HISTORY

The problem was brought to VCDL's attention when, on July 15th, SIX patrol cars were dispatched to Casa di Scotto's restaurant because EM Dave Yates and one of his friends were open carrying (as required by
law) and the other friend was not carrying at all. The police demanded ID and did not let Dave or his friends leave their table while that ID check was run.

The police knew before they arrived at the restaurant that there was no actual disturbance or problem, just a complaint from someone who thought a citizen having a holstered handgun and going to the bathroom was 'suspicious.'

The police, upon arriving and seeing that no laws were being broken and that was no problem or disturbance, should have turned around and left at that point. That's what police in other jurisdictions, like Fairfax, have done in the past when dealing with similar situations.

Dave filed a complaint on the matter. The Commonwealth's Attorney, Raymond Robertson, responded with a letter that talked about how the detention and ID check was justified. Mr. Robertson used the term, 'gun-toting patrons,' which tells you a lot about what he thinks of gun owners right off the bat.

Mr. Robertson's response continues with, "In this day and age, when so many robberies occur, with **so many disturbed people open firing randomly in establishments like restaurants...**" What is Mr.
Robertson talking about? Is he making this up as he goes along? (In a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request, the PD denied that they have ever had someone come into a restaurant and start 'shooting it
up.')

Basically the letter patted the Chief of Police on the back for a job well done.

Sigh.

The Chief, in his response, said he would educate his officers on the legality of open carry, but that same letter contained various justifications for what his officers did and made it clear that they might do it again if circumstances were similar. He seems fixated on gun owners carrying handguns around children.

(In a separate matter, EM Mike Stollenwerk has filed a FOIA request with the Staunton PD to see if they have a policy of not allowing on-duty, off-duty, or retired police to carry guns in places where children might be present - just a hypocrisy check on the Chief.)

The Chief denied that Dave and his friends were 'seized.' But, to paraphrase the Chief in his response, "Sure, you were surrounded with your only means of egress blocked by several armed officers, but you weren't seized and you were free to go, even though we demanded your ID and kept you under guard until we returned your ID."

So based on the Commonwealth Attorney's and the Police Chief's responses, carrying a gun openly is OK, but don't go to the restroom and don't carry where there are children present or the Staunton PD will just be doing their duty harassing you.

Sorry, but VCDL isn't going to simply accept that answer.

ACTION ITEMS

Since the Staunton PD's complaint process is broken, the Staunton City government needs to fix it. VCDL plans to be at the next City Council meeting this Thursday at 7:30 PM and I will address City Council.

IF YOU LIVE IN THE AREA COME AND SHOW SUPPORT!

I will be there around 7 PM to handout 'Guns Save Lives' buttons.
The meeting is in the Caucus Room in City Hall (first floor), 116 West Beverley St.

The Staunton City Council website is:

http://tinyurl.com/yaphya

We need to let Staunton know that gun owner harassment is unacceptable and that their Police Department needs to recognize that surrounding and detaining gun owners for nothing other than lawfully carrying a firearm is legally and morally wrong. The Staunton City Council consists of:

Mayor Lacy King Email: [email protected]
Phone: (540) 885-4428
Vice Mayor David Metz Email: [email protected]
Phone: (540) 885-7914
Councilman Bruce Elder Email: [email protected]
Phone: (540) 213-0021
Councilman Richard Bell Email: [email protected]
Phone: (540) 448-4763
Councilwoman Carolyn Dull Email: [email protected]
Phone: (540) 332-4043
Councilman Ronald Robinson Email: [email protected]
Phone: (540) 886-7037
Councilwoman Rita Wilson Email: [email protected]
Phone: (540) 886-6952

If you live/work/go to school or frequently visit Staunton, call and email all of them and ask them to have the police stop harassing citizens who are lawfully carrying firearms for self-defense. Tell them that they need procedures to PROPERLY handle calls about citizens with guns, so that that they don't scramble the entire department because someone openly carrying a handgun decides to go to the bathroom.

Suggested email:

TO: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

SUBJECT: Stop Staunton Police Department harassment of gun owners!

Dear Staunton City Council:

I am shocked to learn that the Staunton police recently dispatched 6 squad cars to a restaurant simply because 2 concealed handgun permit holders decided to follow Virginia law and openly carry their handguns while eating food.

Everyone should know by now that Virginia law prohibits concealed handgun permit holders from carrying their handguns *concealed* when inside any a restaurant licensed to serve alcohol for on-premises consumption -- so, by law, they have no choice but to carry openly.
This has been the law for nearly 10 years now. How long does it take for the Staunton PD to learn and comply with Virginia law?

Worse, the police arrived not only to investigate, but to harass the citizens by surrounding them and demanding identification, thus embarrassing them in front of other members of the public. And upon finding no broken law to charge the citizens under, the police proceeded to counsel to restaurant manager with an eye toward convincing her to ask the citizens to leave the restaurant or, incredibly, put their guns in unattended cars!

This police abuse is unacceptable. The police should have left the restaurant once they saw that no crime was being committed and the gun owners were peaceably eating their meal.

What if these law abiding permit holders had exercised their rights by refusing to show ID to the police? What if the permit holders had decided to leave the restaurant on their own accord while the table was surrounded by police? Despite what Police Chief Jim Williams claims after the fact, it's very possible that the officers on the scene would have arrested the citizens for obstruction of justice (in violation of the Attorney General Opinion 2002-82, which holds that citizen refusal to identify themselves is not grounds for detention or arrest in Virginia).

The Police Department needs some guidance from the City Council.
Please direct the City Police Chief to institute new departmental procedures and training to make sure that this does not happen again.

Sincerely,

YOUR NAME
YOUR ADDRESS

**************************************************
*************************
VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL).
VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The membership considers the Right to Keep and Bear Arms to be an essential human right.

VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
**************************************************
*************************



__________________
Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.
 
Yes, the personal responsibility Oregon laws allow for regarding weapons is really out of whack with the large shall we say "nanny minded" population in the State. I am worried they will catch up...so far it hasn't happened yet. I actually really like the Portland area for its "diversity". I get along fine with all types of people, love going to Saturday Market. I just hope the carry/gun laws don't start to align with that particular world view...they always push new taxes that's bad enough.:barf:

PP, I don't consider a close acquaintance discovering it by hugging/touching you as "being made" myself. It's not like your jacket flipped up and you flashed the whole bar.
 
Penguin, Penguin, Penguin... Please do not stereotype... Lots of ol' hippies carry...

When you consider that a Martin or Gibson Les Paul might bring a junkie $50 down at the local hockshop, things come into sharp perspective...

Sound is EXPENSIVE. If I go somewhere, and I am doing amp/speakers/ancillary gear, I've probably got $3-4K in the van. And that's not counting instruments.
 
not legal in Virginia

Actually, it is legal to carry in VA in a bar as long as the weapon is not concealed - must be openly carried. Good luck trying it though - I was 'asked to leave' when I did it (and I was not drinking). Left and never went back to that establishment and notified the VCDL.
 
We tried to get the law changed in TN so that carry in establishments that served alcohol would be legal if you weren't drinking alcohol. Got shot down on a procedural trick. Perhaps next session.
 
Utah has no such silly law.

We can carry in schools, bars, wherever.

Only places off limits are airports and government buildings.

Edited to add: Posted Property is illegal to carry on as well... but only three places in my area have posted and I have complained at each one explaining that criminals now see them as an easy target since they don't care about the law anyways... and the signs have been removed.
 
Yup, Oregon is pretty lax about where you can/can't carry, relatively speaking. Pretty much anywhere, except Federal buildings and posted courthouses. AFAIK, the downtown Portland thing is more of a "Carrying to the Public Terror" or "disorderly conduct" deal, with IIRC having a CHL being an affirmative defense. To be read: It's technically still legal even in downtown Portland, but be prepared for the PPD to harass you to no end about it, up to and including arrest for some trumped-up charge. Easier to just go concealed.

That and the Port of Portland seems to think they can prohibit it in the non-sterile side of the Airport. Noone's challenged them on this yet.
 
How I long to live in Utah... :(

Here in TN, you are taking on a HUGE risk to carry in a school and/or bar. Amazing how many laws "protect" you from protecting your own life...
 
A lot of our friends are the touchy feely types. And I am a "press my arm tightly to my side type!" Although I might be surprised, I have come across folks packing I thought would NEVER have a gun on them.
 
If you are to get made I'd say that's a pretty good outcome (finding out that he not only doesn't mind, but carries as well).
Oregon is pretty good about where you can carry. I don't understand some of these places that prohibit carrying in bars/restaurants/etc. When I strap on or pocket my CCW I like it to stay there all day.
 
Remember Federal law trumps state law, and, isn't the law prohibiting carry on schools still in effect, from the Bill Clinton years?

God save us if his wife gets elected...
:banghead: :cuss: :fire:

S
 
Come on! He constantly wears Hawaian shirts and you didn't suspect he carries?

I wear the same shirts and they do a good job of concealment. But I just naturally assume that a hawaian shirt is a dead give-away for hiding a belly and a handgun. It's not like they look good on everyone that wears them.
 
Now I need to know

WHERE IN PORTLAND DID YOU FIND A FIREARM FRIENDLY BAR.



Also, I currently have 22posts at what point do I become a regular member as opposed to New Member. Could someone post the grid that says x number of posts = rating
 
Last edited:
Good story. Sometimes the last person you'd expect to carry, carries a handgun. Maybe you'll have a new shooting buddy now.

BTW, at least 33 states allow legal carry into bars. I wish they all would.
 
WHERE IN PORTLAND DID YOU FIND A FIREARM FRIENDLY BAR.
He didn't walk in and scream "I'VE GOT A GUN!" He knows the karaoke DJ or something and they were talking as pals. My policy for anywhere, bar or otherwise, is concealed means concealed. We don't have the 30.06 signs like TX does. The worst that will happen if you do a bad job of concealing is they'll ask you to leave.
NOW, if we could find a bar in the area that is owned by a member (I may open one, but not for a while, plans fell through) it would be a pretty cool THR hangout :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top