Got ripped off on first gun purchase -- how to proceed?

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No screwing happened at all. The gun had a price tag. The gun purchased and delivered point of sale was the same gun priced. The buyer had the opportunity to inspect, which he exercised. The buyer could walk any time he chose, right up to and including the moment he forked over the money.

Just because that pocket once held another magazine does not mean it held one when priced and sold without one. That's what the seller meant when he offered another one at retail pricing. Heck, he might have sold you two or even three at that price.

Goes to show, nearly every gun really is "used" whether called new or used.
 
Common event

Back during the panic days of 1994 and the Clinton Ban, many dealers routinely removed the extra mags and sold them. As high caps were going for $100+ in those days, they made a healthy profit. I tried to remember the guys who did that and avoid them. To me it was unethical. From their perspective, I am sure they viewed it as a once in a lifetime opportunity to make a killing financially. It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Perhaps we are seeing the return of that. :fire:
 
it all depends on how it was presented.

Yes, a dealer take the gun, remove ALL accessories, case, cleaning equipment, magazine loading tool, extra mags, etc. and still call it new.

He can basically put it in a gym sock, throw in the manual and a gunlock and hand it to you as a 'new' gun.

If he does this at a point in the transaction where you can still say 'no' then you continuing with the transaction equates your acceptance.

If he'd run your credit card, then pop open the box and start taking accessories out, that wouldn't be acceptable.
 
Thanks everyone, I'll suck it up to experience. I made 2 purchases since the Kahr: a Browning Buck Mark .22lr and a Remington 870 and I'm asking a lot more questions before I fork over the money.

Thanks for your advice and anecdotes.

To those wondering, I didn't walk out the store with the handgun, being an out-of-state resident. The pistol was actually $499 but I got a discount for paying in cash instead of credit so it was $475 + tax = $510 or so, plus a $35 FFL transfer, so total cost is about $550 so far.

It works beautifully, so there's worse things that could've happened.
 
I can say as a dealer I have one distibutor a few years back that sold New Glocks with 1 mag and thats the way I got them for a while not defending the shop but they may have gotten from thier distributor with 1 mag. It has happened I ordered 7 glocks all had 1 mag I called them and they said thats how they were getting them They were about $25 bucks cheaper than everyone else on glocks at that time I suspect the 1 mag had a factor in that However I up front explained to the customer and passed on the $25 discount and offered a extra mag for $25 as well new in package from glock.
 
I bought my wife a PM9 and it did come with the two mags, however I personally think the 7 round mag looks tacky installed....they should have a least painted it black or something. I'm thinking if you don't hit someone in 6 shots one more might not help your ability.
 
Sounds like buying a camera from those guys in NYC. "Did you want a battery and charger for that?" :banghead:

It probably would have been closer to regular price with both mags.
 
I think your "ripped off" thread title is a bit of an exaggeration. Buy another magazine and don't worry about it. Life is too short.
 
The correct answer is, you send a firmly written letter to the dealer, CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED, with the following language or similar (do not place any phone calls):

You defrauded me by selling me an allegedly new gun, but you stole the magazine out of it before you gave it to me. Therefore, you are liable for theft (conversion), state and federal consumer protection violations, punitive damages, and my attorney's fees (if any were incurred). Therefore, I have claims against you for this theft and punitive damages well in excess of $10,000.00. However, I will settle and compromise my claim before I get a lawyer, and release you from liability from all claims if you tender to me certified funds for $750.00 within 5 business days of your receipt of this letter, to this address: [your name and address].

They stole it and they know it. They'll probably cough up whatever you ask within reason, to avoid a lawsuit, or at least make a counteroffer, and if they don't, you go hire a lawyer (preferably on a contingency basis).

Even if you should have inspected it, that's a 'bait and switch' fraud, by telling you on the phone that it's "brand new", causing you to drive over an hour to get it, knowing that once you've invested all that time and money to get there, you'll probably cough up the extra for the magazine. It's just a way of lying about the true total price to get you to come there. What if he had removed the slide and tried to charge you extra for the slide, claiming that the gun (the frame is the gun, remember) is "brand new", so it's not technically a lie, now is it? - I guess that would be ok to most people posting on this thread? It's CLEARLY fraudulent to claim that something is "brand new", with all that that entails and implies (everything it's supposed to come with, brand new), in order to induce someone to drive a long ways to get it. In fact, in many states, there are severe civil penalties for holding something out at "new", when it's in fact used. You could argue, most likely very successfully, that once he removed the magazine, he changed the condition, making it a "used" gun. Therefore, there is clear fraud in representing it to you as a new gun. Don't stand for that crap - we don't need to allow shady dealers to get off scot free on this stuff. In my opinion. I guess others disagree.
 
Buyer be ware. You should have done your homework. the lesson you learned is worth far more than $40. Despite the mag issue you got a GREAT deal on that gun so long as it's in good shape. The gas and aggravation to go and get that mag are more than it's worth, again, you learned a lesson.

Timliness is everything in asserting rights and remedies. Sorry been in purchasing too long :p You should have dealt with it within a week. You can make one very nice phone call and hope for the best, and then learn the good lesson.

And for the guy who said MK9's only come with one mag, well they do in fact come with two. the second one has the extended base.
God Bless
Gideon
 
My 2 cents:
Bought a G17 in a local gun shop, the clerk but a 'Sold Tag' on it and put it back in the display case. I asked why and the answer was two-fold: 1) makes people jealous so they'll buy, and maybe they'll even trust the buying decision of a stranger, and 2) they will let people handle my gun, to see what a G17 is like, until they get a new one from the store room.

Maryland let me pick it up 10 days later. It had been moved from the display case to a storage safe and was missing the magazine. It was supposed to have two. Where did the mag go? The clerk took the mag from the G17 currently on sale in the display case and put it into my glock case.

Moral of the story: at some point, some buyer is going to get screwed out of a magazine.
 
Burning Bridges by Dr Tedious

send them that letter and im sure the store will be sending you something as a thank you for the laughs it gave them.

when you weigh the costs, you ended up with a fair deal and some experience. as you have recently said--time to move on.
 
send them that letter and im sure the store will be sending you something as a thank you for the laughs it gave them.

Are you a lawyer, Claude? Because you are flat wrong, in my opinon. Wanna bet? Put your money where your mouth is, since you shot it off. How much? Yosemite, I'll represent you free of charge if you'd like to take me up on it. The man feels he was ripped off, and I think the vast majority of folks would agree. The only question remaining is, are you gonna lay there and take it, or do something about it?

when you weigh the costs, you ended up with a fair deal and some experience. as you have recently said--time to move on.

Why should he chalk it up to a lesson learned, when he *could* get (a) a lesson learned, AND (b) right a wrong, since he was pretty clearly defrauded, as the law is written?

And giving me a clever disparaging name is not the high road, as forum rules require.
 
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Well, most of my legal practice these days concentrates on criminal defense with some tax work, and occasional business law thrown in for laughs.

However, I wouldn't send that letter unless my mission was to cause the dealer to blow his coffee all over it for an art project. It's actually not so far removed from extortion, BTW.
 
You got a $600 pistol for $450. Another poster has mentioned that he's seen several factory test fired Kahrs with just one magazine.

I wouldn't worry about it.
 
Yeah...If you like the gun...which looks really nice...and you liked the price, I wouldn't sweat it. It is always upsetting when something goes wrong with a gun purchase. I think, for one, that you did OK. Shame on folks for not going all the way with customer service...or just telling you the truth...like "listen man, we have this for this price 'cause we only got one mag". If they had said that, you would have bought the gun I bet anyway.

Don't let yourself think you got ripped off 'cause that is upsetting and you'll associate that gun (which I'll bet is a nice one) with a bad experience.

I would chuck the experience into the "bad service at a gunshop" folder and enjoy the gun. It's tough though...

Again...really neat gun you got there!
 
Tad:

I think we've established that the gun was new - it had just been test-fired a few times at the factory in normal preparation for shipment. (I doubt if it was a "test gun", and I wouldn't want one of those, but I think you'd be able to tell....)

I think we've also established that the second magazine was missing. It's a little late in the game now, but Karhr apparently does ship two mags with each gun. That could be actionable, but I think other than Small Claims, would be too little money to justify paying a lawyer to pursue. (IMHO/IANAL)

The G17 with the oopsie magazine - I sure wouldn't like anybody to handle a gun I'd just bought.... Although I doubt if you could hurt a Glock, there are things that could happen in the wrong hands. Not the end of the world, but can you imagine buying a car with three or four miles on it, and coming back to pick it up (they usually want to "prep" it for a day or two) and finding 30-40 miles? ("Dealer Prep" is a great way to rip you for a couple hundred bucks for washing the car, but that's another thread.)

A buddy of mine bought a new Mercedes from a local dealer about fifteen years ago. He had to wait a couple months, and was off on a cruise when it came in. (This guy had so much money that he had difficulty understanding that others didn't. He got mad at me once because I couldn't come up with $50K to buy a hotel with him....) The dealer called his son and asked if they could put it on the showroom floor - really unusual model, I guess - until his dad got back. Kid figured that it was OK, but asked for compensation. Dad came home, picked up the car, and then noticed the $1000 "discount" on the paperwork. He got MAD! I don't think the car moved more than a mile or so, but....

He wrecked the car about a year later, re-built it, and sold it. Nasty accident - he hit a pickup truck and sent it flying across the road, but the only injury in the Mercedes was his passenger - broke his nose. The guy in the pickup spent a couple weeks in the hospital, and a big hefty bag for the rest of the truck.... Mixed emotions - the accident happened across the street from my then-office, and I went over to help. I'd recognized the Mercedes.... The pickup truck guy was one of our customers....

And a story.... My wife and I bought a chair from a local furniture store about 25 years ago. We took advantage of an in-house credit deal that let us pay it off over about six months at a favorable rate. The wife happened to be passing by, noticed that she had an extra $50 in the checking account that hadn't managed to go for whatever crazy stuff she usually bought, and stopped in and gave them the $50 "on account"....

She got a receipt, and, of course, used our check.

Couple weeks later we get a statement that DOESN'T show that extra payment. Then the bank statement shows up, showing that they'd cashed the check.

The store refused to apply the credit. "What $50?" Showing them the cancelled check and the receipt didn't do anything. I'm sure they figured we'd not bother going after them - it'd cost more in lawyer fees.... (I think the amount was too low to get a warrant and have the Sheriff come out and padlock the place :D.) What they didn't know is that my lawyer was an "old family retainer", so to speak. He'd made a pile working for my former day job, and as our "family lawyer", so writing up a letter was mostly his secretary's time. No Charge.... The store got a letter not too far from Tad's, although we barely touched on the misdemeanor nature of the crime. Next statement, the $50 credit was there.

Fast forward to about 2000. Local car dealer sold me a "program car" - fancy way of saying it had been a rental in Orlando - and the rear window defogger turned out to have been scraped off the rear window. After much screaming (by me), we agreed to split the wholesale cost of the repair (about $300 from my checkbook) and stay friends. Then he sort of held me off - never called, even though prodded, to have me bring the car in.

I wrote a nasty letter (not nearly as "bad" as Tad's) - I do good letter :) - and sent it to the lawyer asking him whether it was OK to send it, or what did he think? Couple days later I get CC'd - he'd had his secretary re-type my letter on his letterhead, pretty much verbatim, but he'd decided I had a "Cadillac Town Car".... Next day they called me to come in, and when I asked about the cost as I picked the car up, they said "forget it." (I'm still driving the car - it's a Lincoln Town Car with suntan oil stains on the seatbelts.) I'm sure they figured that my lawyer was so befuddled that it'd cost them a lot more than $300 just to put somebody up in front of a Judge.... (Poor guy passed away a couple years ago. Fell, and was never quite right. )

Regards,
 
SMM: "The G17 with the oopsie magazine - I sure wouldn't like anybody to handle a gun I'd just bought.... Although I doubt if you could hurt a Glock, there are things that could happen in the wrong hands."

Yeah, I'm far from a prima donna, especially in a gun store, but I'd never do business under those conditions. Refund my money, keep showing off the gun. If you have to hold it (I did time in MD, too), it goes in the safe, pal. No discussion.
 
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