lobo9er
Member
krochus
not anymore, i'm afraid those days are gone. but still cheaper than a mini.
not anymore, i'm afraid those days are gone. but still cheaper than a mini.
Gotta get it off my chest AR-15 vs. Mini-14
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knights_armorer
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i dont think its a bad little rifle. maybe a bit one dimensional, and maybe a tad overpriced.
it is a handsome, reliable little carbine, that points and handles quickly, but thats really where it ends, and thats ok.
the sad truth is that it simply does not lend itself to the accuracy that even budget ar rifles are capable of. the truth is not always what we would like it to be (hence your anguish)
yes, with major work, a new barrel, some trigger work, and maybe a rediculous contraption hanging off the barrel, it is possible to make it shoot ALMOST as straight as a 600 dollar olympic. it would cost twice that to make a mini shoot with one.
this is NOT knock on the mini14. like i said, its a nice little carbine and serves it purpose well, but its purpose is not to shoot sub moa, or maintain a rate of accurate sustained fire anywhere close to even a budget ar.
the mini is designed to shoot for pleasure and it works great for that.
the ar is designed to keep you alive when you have fired 300 rounds in the previous ten minutes at a feverish rate, and you really, REALLY, REALLY, NEED THE NEXT ROUND TO TO HIT.......... POINT OF AIM, POINT OF IMPACT OUT TO 600 YARDS, hot barrel or not.
it is a handsome, reliable little carbine, that points and handles quickly, but thats really where it ends, and thats ok.
the sad truth is that it simply does not lend itself to the accuracy that even budget ar rifles are capable of. the truth is not always what we would like it to be (hence your anguish)
yes, with major work, a new barrel, some trigger work, and maybe a rediculous contraption hanging off the barrel, it is possible to make it shoot ALMOST as straight as a 600 dollar olympic. it would cost twice that to make a mini shoot with one.
this is NOT knock on the mini14. like i said, its a nice little carbine and serves it purpose well, but its purpose is not to shoot sub moa, or maintain a rate of accurate sustained fire anywhere close to even a budget ar.
the mini is designed to shoot for pleasure and it works great for that.
the ar is designed to keep you alive when you have fired 300 rounds in the previous ten minutes at a feverish rate, and you really, REALLY, REALLY, NEED THE NEXT ROUND TO TO HIT.......... POINT OF AIM, POINT OF IMPACT OUT TO 600 YARDS, hot barrel or not.
Redneck with a 40
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I bought my Mini-14 knowing full well that its not an AR and won't shoot 1/4" groups. Fact is, I could care less about that. I've got a .308 that shoot's .6" groups, I don't need a .223 for that. I just wanted a good, reliable, hi-cap 223 to mess around at the range with and I will say, I'm happy with the accuracy of mine, most groups are 2.5", the biggest ones, 3".
I've got nothing against AR shooters, the rifle's just don't do anything for me. I'm fine with the fact that my Mini will never be a match rifle, doesn't matter to me.
I've got nothing against AR shooters, the rifle's just don't do anything for me. I'm fine with the fact that my Mini will never be a match rifle, doesn't matter to me.
rossiscratch
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This was an entertaining thread. haha. Thanks guys. I think the OP has a little inferiority complex going on. He should be happy with his mini though. It suits his purposes for a little less money than the alternative. There's nothing wrong with that. However, as Justin pointed out, pot, meet kettle. Oh you've met before?
lobo9er
Member
To be fair some of those budget AR aren't up to this either though. Just because they advertise mil-spec doesn't make it so
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Redneck with a 40
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I don't know about you, but I'm not planning on getting involved in a war, lol.
I will say this:
I have often wished my Mini-14 would shoot a legitimate deer cartridge with sufficient accuracy to be a 250-300 yard hunting carbine with a 4X scope on it. It's one wonderful little package, that has the potential of being the modern replacement for the lever gun. I was tempted by the 6.8 version, but not for the money they charge. I don't trust that the gun wouldn't need to go to Accuracy Systems with a check for 800 more bucks, to become a hunting rifle.
I have never had any real desire to take an AR-15 hunting.
I've also wished that the M1A wasn't so heavy and expensive (more or less the same wish as the first one). Again, it LOOKS like a great hunting rifle, but it would have to lose a few pounds to live up to that.
The bottom line? I like the way the Mini points, as knights armorer says. But it falls short.
I don't love the way an AR handles, though it is fun to shoot. But the thing shoots straight, and it doesn't overheat in a half a magazine.]
And I'm often tempted to send the Mini off to Accuracy Systems, but I don't have any real need for another semiauto that shoots a cartridge for which I have no need, and I can see other uses for the cash.
I have often wished my Mini-14 would shoot a legitimate deer cartridge with sufficient accuracy to be a 250-300 yard hunting carbine with a 4X scope on it. It's one wonderful little package, that has the potential of being the modern replacement for the lever gun. I was tempted by the 6.8 version, but not for the money they charge. I don't trust that the gun wouldn't need to go to Accuracy Systems with a check for 800 more bucks, to become a hunting rifle.
I have never had any real desire to take an AR-15 hunting.
I've also wished that the M1A wasn't so heavy and expensive (more or less the same wish as the first one). Again, it LOOKS like a great hunting rifle, but it would have to lose a few pounds to live up to that.
The bottom line? I like the way the Mini points, as knights armorer says. But it falls short.
I don't love the way an AR handles, though it is fun to shoot. But the thing shoots straight, and it doesn't overheat in a half a magazine.]
And I'm often tempted to send the Mini off to Accuracy Systems, but I don't have any real need for another semiauto that shoots a cartridge for which I have no need, and I can see other uses for the cash.
lobo9er
Member
agree, unless theres money to burn. how meny 223's do you need (answers will vary i would bet)
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Indeed. I certainly won't demean those who choose to shoot a Mini-14. If it's a gun that works for you, then that's certainly all you need.
Where I have a problem is with the making of claims that the Mini-14 is something that it is not, or that people who choose to go with the AR platform are somehow snobs. Such claims are flat-out wrong; just as wrong as if I were to claim that an AR-15 could fill the same niche as, say, a long-range precision bolt gun.
knights_armorer
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absolutely.
the o.p. has in one post attempted to cite the shortcomings of the ar platform, and in another post say its not about the rifle, but its owners.
sometimes ive seen members question the closing of threads. i dont think this one would be missed, as last I observed it was taking up space between two very nice threads that just seem to fit here more appropriately ("whats the difference between the 338lapua and the 338 winchester" and "picking my first lever rifle")
does an unsolicited personal rant belong between those two?
A lot of it isn't elitism as much as it is wanting a higher-precision rifle, which the Mini is definitely not. It is what it is: a ranch gun. It works like an American AK-47. It isn't made nor known for superb accuracy.
Post groups and elaborate on what you consider "a touch more" or "not much". A 1/2" difference is usually considered a big difference. For example, I hear that the average Ruger group is around 3-4 inches. I hear of M4gery carbine owners getting a typical 1.5-2" out-of-box or so if they do their part. Big difference, especially if the degree of accuracy holds consistent at longer ranges, where it is comparing a 3-4" group to a 6-8" group.
You can find them for $550-750; thats around the cost of a Mini. If you want a high-end precision rifle or something strong enough to go out into middleofthefreakingharshdesertistan or use as a bullet hose in a carbine class, then sure: you'll end up spending around $1100-2600
So can my AR. It just smells bad, takes longer to clean, and MAY wear out a $3 piece after awhile. I generally don't shoot it because it sucks for accuracy, though.
Direct Impingement has been the way our standard issue weapons operates for nearly fifty years. It seems to be very proven as well - if not even more proven.
Sure, the Ruger can survive a jettison across a ravine much better than an AR. The AR may crack a plastic handguard, bust the grip, or crack the buffer tube. But my question here is: do you like to jettison your firearms into and over ravines? Do you think that your Ruger is subjected to and tolerates more beating and use than an AR can take? The AR does not break if you simply drop it or if the wind hits it the wrong way.
an AR can be cleaned by anything as well. It's just that it is generally valued for its precision, and therefore it makes more sense to use better lubricants. I however have an AR I built in accordance to the milspec chart/TDP standards, and I just use cheapo CLP for it. It works fine.
...so? ARs aren't as finicky as you think. I haven't cleaned mine in about 400 rounds. No problems, no permanent damage, no worries of it bursting into flames, etc.
Seriously, logistics and modernization aside, do you think our military would have kept the platform around if it didn't work?
We don't bash the Ruger for being a bad rifle; we bash it for being a bad rifle for our needs or purpose. A lot of it isn't bashing as much as it is telling the truth. I personally do not like the Ruger because I can get a more accurate gun for the same price to suit my shooting wants and needs. Sorry if we offended you or the Mini.
I was always under the assumption (whether wrong or not) that the Mini-14 didn't have a 5.56 chamber, and the higher chamber pressures created by the 5.56 mil-surplus ammo would damage the .223 chamber in the Mini.
I switch back and forth between .223 and mil-surp ammo. When one is cheaper than the other, I keep the good stuff and shoot the cheap stuff .... and I suppose there are a lot of folks like that here as well.
This, along with the higher cost of Mini-14 magazines, was the reason I went with the AR. There was a time I could get AR mags for less than 10 bucks a pop, and sometimes for free because they simply needed a new spring and/or follower. I'm probably sitting on well over 50 mags for my AR, not because I might need that many but because I was in the right place at the right time.
Kris
I switch back and forth between .223 and mil-surp ammo. When one is cheaper than the other, I keep the good stuff and shoot the cheap stuff .... and I suppose there are a lot of folks like that here as well.
This, along with the higher cost of Mini-14 magazines, was the reason I went with the AR. There was a time I could get AR mags for less than 10 bucks a pop, and sometimes for free because they simply needed a new spring and/or follower. I'm probably sitting on well over 50 mags for my AR, not because I might need that many but because I was in the right place at the right time.
Kris
General Geoff
Member
I'm fairly certain the Mini-14 has a 5.56mm chamber.
Ed Ames
Member
The ruger manual is very clear that the chamber is 5.56x45 (mil spec).
You know that's not true. People bash the mini because they want to feel superior, not because it doesn't fit their needs. If it was a matter of needs they wouldn't bash, they'd just say, "not what I'm looking for." Besides, there are a lot of mini-bashers who never have, and never will, used their olympic arms (or name your brand) AR carbine anywhere but a range....and some of them can barely hold minute-of-backstop. I've seen them at the range, and the loudest mouths typically go with the guys who can barely keep all their shots on paper.
You know that's not true. People bash the mini because they want to feel superior, not because it doesn't fit their needs. If it was a matter of needs they wouldn't bash, they'd just say, "not what I'm looking for." Besides, there are a lot of mini-bashers who never have, and never will, used their olympic arms (or name your brand) AR carbine anywhere but a range....and some of them can barely hold minute-of-backstop. I've seen them at the range, and the loudest mouths typically go with the guys who can barely keep all their shots on paper.
Ok, so ARs win in the accuracy department, and AKs win in the reliability and cost department.
Where does that leave the mini 14? .....mediocracy, who wants that.
p.s. I could be wrong about this, but based on my limited expiriance i feel like mini 14s heat up faster than eather an AK or an AR. last time I tried to blow throw a 100 pack of .223 on a friends mini 14 I had to stop before finishing because it was getting to hot, while my other friends shooting ARs and a .223 saiga finished thier 100 pack of ammo much faster, without taking a break...... just me .2 cents
Where does that leave the mini 14? .....mediocracy, who wants that.
p.s. I could be wrong about this, but based on my limited expiriance i feel like mini 14s heat up faster than eather an AK or an AR. last time I tried to blow throw a 100 pack of .223 on a friends mini 14 I had to stop before finishing because it was getting to hot, while my other friends shooting ARs and a .223 saiga finished thier 100 pack of ammo much faster, without taking a break...... just me .2 cents
bill larry
Member
Lets leave the SKS out of this. The Mini-14 doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as the SKS.
1KPerDay
Member
Nobody, since it isn't a word.
/grammar Nazi
The OP obviously had some personal experiences dealing with elitist AR shooters and felt he could get it off his chest here at the THR. I have dealt with those persons at the range as well, but decided that my Mini (3-14's and 2-30's) serve my purposes, and I generally like them, better. I have carried /used the AR, but still like the way the Mini feels in my hands much better than the AR.
If I wanted to shoot competitively, I would buy an AR (although my new Mini Target is pretty damn good). However, for my needs (hunting, varmint, defense, fun) the mini serves me just fine. I hunt antelope and TX whitetail with the 7.62 and do not require that the rifle be able to shoot 5 rounds through a quarter at 100yds, I just need it to hit a target the size of a grapefruit/orange at 100-200yds.
I will admit that the older mini's did have a overheating problem, but with the newer barrels I have not run into that issue.
As for elitist snobs, they are they main reason I stayed away from the 1911 platform (until recently). I just had to admit to myself that there will always be a**hats out there who think their stuff is better for one reason or another and there is nothing I can do....other than ignore it and continue on about my business.
If there was a SHTF situation, I would not balk at carrying either the AR or mini, but my personal preference is the Mini.
If I wanted to shoot competitively, I would buy an AR (although my new Mini Target is pretty damn good). However, for my needs (hunting, varmint, defense, fun) the mini serves me just fine. I hunt antelope and TX whitetail with the 7.62 and do not require that the rifle be able to shoot 5 rounds through a quarter at 100yds, I just need it to hit a target the size of a grapefruit/orange at 100-200yds.
I will admit that the older mini's did have a overheating problem, but with the newer barrels I have not run into that issue.
As for elitist snobs, they are they main reason I stayed away from the 1911 platform (until recently). I just had to admit to myself that there will always be a**hats out there who think their stuff is better for one reason or another and there is nothing I can do....other than ignore it and continue on about my business.
If there was a SHTF situation, I would not balk at carrying either the AR or mini, but my personal preference is the Mini.
AirborneNCO
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Here's a token that, if nothing else, can give the AR some props. I've spent 24 months in Iraq in two deployments, 7 years on active duty and 4 years in the reserves, all in the U.S. Army. I've been assigned to one M16A2, one M16A2 w/M203, one M16A4, and one M4 w/M203. They were reliable, accurate, and I came to know and love it through a direct personal relationship through hundreds of hours of intense, high impact, dirty training all over the world, to include sub-arctic regions and the fine dusts of Iraq, and plenty of time at the zero range and qualifications range on dozens of long days. That's why I went and bought an AR when I got out. This one, although not a Colt, has been great for my needs.
After all that history, there's a peculiar feeling I get when I see people saying certain things on here about that weapon in general. Things like "I just never really liked the AR that much or got another one because the first one I got jammed on me a bunch", or "ARs are finicky and their plastic parts are flimsy"; those statements kinda make me concerned about how some people judge weapon designs and make statistical assessments in general. If stch (the original poster) walked up to me on the range and verbally said to me what he did in his OP, I'd just kind of look at him funny and try to change the subject. Attitudes like that lead straight into an argument you can't win - the guy made it clear what he's all about and you just sort of walk away and hope he doesn't bother you too much.
After all that history, there's a peculiar feeling I get when I see people saying certain things on here about that weapon in general. Things like "I just never really liked the AR that much or got another one because the first one I got jammed on me a bunch", or "ARs are finicky and their plastic parts are flimsy"; those statements kinda make me concerned about how some people judge weapon designs and make statistical assessments in general. If stch (the original poster) walked up to me on the range and verbally said to me what he did in his OP, I'd just kind of look at him funny and try to change the subject. Attitudes like that lead straight into an argument you can't win - the guy made it clear what he's all about and you just sort of walk away and hope he doesn't bother you too much.
I can say this with confidence. I never met a rifle that verticalliy strings like the Mini 14 (180 series stainless, wooden handguard and stock) as it gets hot.
It's plenty accurate for varmints at 100 yards, but after 3 or 5 shots, kiss your accuracy goodbye. I know newer Ruger rifles addressed this, but seriously, it's an issue for using that rifle for something like 3 gun.
My AR doesn't seem to string bullets at all, maybe if I was dumping magazine after magazine.
It's plenty accurate for varmints at 100 yards, but after 3 or 5 shots, kiss your accuracy goodbye. I know newer Ruger rifles addressed this, but seriously, it's an issue for using that rifle for something like 3 gun.
My AR doesn't seem to string bullets at all, maybe if I was dumping magazine after magazine.
C-grunt
Member
I think we got a case of pot calling the kettle black here!
The mini 14 is a great rifle but its not known for its accuracy. Thats cool if it works for you.
Me... I love ARs. I used the M16 in the Army and trust them with my life. The fact is that rifle has saved my but more than once. The only time I can remember having a malfunction was with blanks.
Also the M16 works fine for butt strokes. Ive seen it. Thats with a standard A2/4 stock, not a carbine stock.
Also for the people who dont like plastic, you know they make wood parts for the rifle now. I think its ugly as sin, but thats just me.
The mini 14 is a great rifle but its not known for its accuracy. Thats cool if it works for you.
Me... I love ARs. I used the M16 in the Army and trust them with my life. The fact is that rifle has saved my but more than once. The only time I can remember having a malfunction was with blanks.
Also the M16 works fine for butt strokes. Ive seen it. Thats with a standard A2/4 stock, not a carbine stock.
Also for the people who dont like plastic, you know they make wood parts for the rifle now. I think its ugly as sin, but thats just me.
clarence222
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Not my argument
let me first say I have both a mini 14 and a mini 30,a s well as a dozen or more AR style rifles. I enjoy owning and shooting all of them. You might could say I like the AR platform better and that might be true, but then again it might not be. I like the mini becuase of the A Team, I always watched that show. I like the AR because its an AR.
GusMcrae, you posted this link earlier in the thread about an inexpensive AR, if you do some more looking around on that site you will find this ammunition warning. I'm no trying to call you out or anything like. I just thought that this was interesting since part of this thread was about ammo. I shoot the steel case in my AR's and haven't had any problems. But sure would hate to have my warranty voided because I shot Wolf or any other steel cased ammo
Thats not the entire warning but I think you will see the relevance on what types of ammo to use. Here is the link so you can read it for yourself.
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cart=1985023&cat=159&
let me first say I have both a mini 14 and a mini 30,a s well as a dozen or more AR style rifles. I enjoy owning and shooting all of them. You might could say I like the AR platform better and that might be true, but then again it might not be. I like the mini becuase of the A Team, I always watched that show. I like the AR because its an AR.
GusMcrae, you posted this link earlier in the thread about an inexpensive AR, if you do some more looking around on that site you will find this ammunition warning. I'm no trying to call you out or anything like. I just thought that this was interesting since part of this thread was about ammo. I shoot the steel case in my AR's and haven't had any problems. But sure would hate to have my warranty voided because I shot Wolf or any other steel cased ammo
Thats not the entire warning but I think you will see the relevance on what types of ammo to use. Here is the link so you can read it for yourself.
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cart=1985023&cat=159&
scythefwd
Member
My plastic hand guards and butt stock on my A2 rifle were extremely tough. Then again, this was a military rifle.. not the civilian equivalent. I don't know how those hold up or if they can handle a butt stroke.
BMF500
Member
I have a Bushmaster M-4, it's pretty good for an auto-loader. But if I'm looking for dead-nuts accuracy, I reach for Weatherby.....
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