Graffiti painter killed by homeowner - news story

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Hold on now...

Depending on the individual laws of the state where one lives, you may indeed be legally ok in shooting to protect property. Whether or not you would want to is quite another matter altogether. This shooter could turn out to be some mental-health case for all we know. I am sure all of us know or have known at least one or two people who, because of some past action or mental/emotional instability, have no business around firearms. This shooter may be one of those. Some of the 'keyboard commandos' on this board would also seem to qualify, given some of the shoot first/think later bloodthirsty rhetoric that gets posted here.
 
Reply to guntalk..

Guntalk, I doubt if either of us wll change our opinions here, and I'm not going to try too hard to justify my opinion regarding vandalism. 'Vandalism' to me is simply wanton destruction of another person's property. 'Vandalism' sounds too mundane. It is what it is. But, if you will, consider this: I don't earn a lot of money, and for me to accumulate $2,000 in disposable income, I have to earn somewhere north of $20,000. Thats a lot of work, and I'd resent like heck for someone to take that away for me.

We can continue this via PMs if you like.

salty.
 
I used to live nearby.

The Tagging of a rival gang members house is a serious event, right up there with shagging his sister. The house was shown on the news and the Tags are not just gang names but total insults, as in ''We know where you live kid, next time it will be molotovs and gun fire". I am pretty sure a good defense attorney would be able to portray this as a direct threat to his person.


Now the mother was on TV claiming she had no idea he had a pistol, which would make him a juvie in posession, and although he is 17, so far I have heard no indications that he was going to be charged/tried as an adult.


When I was living in the area, there were shots fired over tagging several times. As far as I knew, no homeowners were charged. I had a brand new construction trailer tagged. The kid who did subsequently suffered some injuries from falling off his bike, several times.
 
Los Angeles County Code

Title 13 PUBLIC PEACE, MORALS AND WELFARE

Chapter 13.66 FIREARMS, BOWS AND ARROWS*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
13.66.010 Use of weapons permitted when.

This chapter, except as otherwise provided in this Part 1, does not prohibit the discharge of any rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm of any kind, or the shooting of any arrow or other missile, when necessary so to do to protect life or property, or to destroy or kill any predatory or dangerous animal. (Ord. 7730 § 1, 1960: Ord. 7381 § 1 (part), 1958: Ord. 1769 Art. 3 § 302, 1929.)
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Screw vandals. I'll attempt to detain. They make one move towards me, on my own property, I'm plugging them.
 
This sort of thing is why I also have Pepperballs for a paintball gun.

Nonlethal, (don't aim for the face), stings, and envelops them in a cloud of ultrafine capsicum.

That solves two problems. One, it's not lethal force, and two, if THEY have a gun, they're going to have their eyes shut and be gasping, definitely not able to shoot at you...but if they're so dumb as to pull it out anyway, then you're justified in using lethal force at THAT point.
 
How many of you here have lived in a gang infested city?

I for one have. Imagine if you had some punk tagging your garage door every morning. You repaint it when you can, but as soon as that is done, within a few days it's got the same graffetti on it. Imagine this going on for months, if not years.

The local PD will not do anything. They have more important "things" to do at the local donut shop.

Now imagine if you try waiting and talk to this banger (or bangers) you risk your life as bangers have time and time again killed people trying to cover their "property" or tag.

Or one day, they will tire of you covering up their property and will do a drive by where your wife and 2 year old sleeps.

I don't advocate shooting of bangers, but I can see the fustration a homeowner can have.

There was a shooting in East Los Angeles about 8 years ago. Some guy (tired of constantly having his back yard fence tagged) confronted 2-3 boys to ask them to stop.

They argued and the punks produced screwdrivers in hand and he responded back with multiple lead "arguements". He eventually got off, but had to move cause the entire Hispanic community called him a kid killer and racist etc etc etc.
 
Manedwolf said:
This sort of thing is why I also have Pepperballs for a paintball gun
Click to expand...
Where are you obtaining the Pepperballs, and what marker are you using 'em in? I checked the Pepperballs web site and as of yet they do not sell to private citizens, nor recommend using the rounds a regular paintball marker ( don't know why not, what they sell looks like a rebadged Tippman98 ), nor painballs in their markers.

After getting some peripheral exposure to aerosolized capsicum last weekend I can see how disabling it can be.
 
Daniel,

As a matter of fact, it is. Exodus 22:2. If you need help understanding it, PM me.

Slime, you are distorting the Bible. If I am raping your daughter, and you kill me, my Dad has no moral/biblical reason to claim 'eye for an eye', and come for you.
 
Now the original post doesn't quite fit this but I am with 50Freak on this .

How many of you have lived with something that is ilegal and out in the open and the local police did nothing about it ?

When I was a kid we had a drug/cat house across the street they were so brazen and open it wasn't funny , The mother of 3 girls was running the the whole show and was known to yell prices out the screen door/window in nice weather .

My parents called the cops what must have been close to a hundred times because they would have parties in the front yard actually shooting up and smoking dope in the open ,right before the cops would show up they would all leave and close up the house and turn out the lights so it would look like all was well .

They finally took a shot at our house and thank god it hit a evergreen tree in the yard .

My folks called the FBI when that happened , within 6 months they and over 3/4 of the police department were gone apparently the cops were realy "on the take" as they say .

This was in what was a pretty good neighborhood but it was in the mid 70's and I think they were just starting things like section 8 housing as it was a rental and various kinds of scum moved in and out for a couple of years , none anywhere near as bad as the first group though .

A law abiding citizen can be pushed way over the limit and be forced to take action , unfortunately all you see on the news is the action of the otherwise lawabiding citizen that has been tormented perhaps for years with no help so ever from the local Police .
 
"How many of you have lived with something that is ilegal and out in the open and the local police did nothing about it?"

I won't get specific, but a similar thing happened to a friend of mine who had a drug dealing neighbor. Anytime that sort of thing happens, I'd say call the Feds or the State Police. Bribes don't reach those guys.
 
Sometimes, things just have to be dealt with on a local and personal level. End of story.
Biker
 
I'd say call the Feds or the State Police. Bribes don't reach those guys.
Click to expand...

Really? Then why'd the TN State Trooper's office just get a complete overhaul recently? Seems bribes, political favors, and various other forms of misconduct were rampant. And the TBI has had it's share of "internal investigations" in the last few years too.

Fact is, no organization is immune from corruption. Especially not when they're the ones either making or enforcing the "rules".

And as for the taggers... if it was legal, I'd have shot 'em. If it wasn't, and I had a reoccurring problem with 'em... well, let's just say there's more than one way to skin a cat, and leave it at that. ;)

One way or the other, they wouldn't be allowed to continue their destructive ways, with or without assistance from the local L.E.O.s.


J.C.
 
I sympathize with being driven nuts by property destruction, but some dollar amounts are just plain not worth killing people over. If it were a threat to your ability to provide food and shelter for you and your family, that would be one thing, but damage to a fence/garage door/siding?

If some crazy teens are driving recklessly and hit your car, causing 5000 in damage, do you have a right to get out and shoot them on site?

I sure hope most people wouldn't shoot another human being for petty vandalism. It's wrong, but it's not a death penalty offense for a reason.
 
I believe that in such matters, the default consideration is the law. Shooting a person illegally is stupid

Whether or not you should shoot somebody for painting your house with graffiti is a moral and personal issue if you have the legal right to do it.

I don't think much of the morals of others. Those are their morals just like I don't hold the same religious beliefs of many others. I am doing some horrible things based on Jewish, Catholic, and Muslim faiths, but those are not my faiths.

People get all uppity about when you should or should not use lethal force, regardless of the law. I have to laugh at many of the "conservative" gun owners who take the high and mighty stand of keeping guns as per the Constitution and historical precedent, back from a time in the country when you could shoot a person, legally, for stealing a horse from you when that person posed no physical risk to you. In Texas, we have kept those laws. For people to speak of being so conservative, by historic precedent, I see them as flaming liberals.

I also see the view of the "life is precious" argument to be backwards. Why is it so much on the shoulders of the shooter to worry about the life of the person doing him wrong. Apparently life isn't that darned precious to the person committing the crime, painting someone else's house, stealing their horse, or stealing chicken poults in San Antonio (no arrest as the shooting wasn't criminal even though the teenager was shot in the back while fleeing with poults...because age, orientation of impact, and direction of travel do not determine the shooting to be inappropriate when the justification is stopping a crime on one's property and there is supporting evidence the crime was being committed as claimed) that said offenders are more than happy to risk their lives to commit such stupid acts. It is the offender that made the choice to risk his/her life in a stupid act, not the homeowner.
 
I'm in complete agreement with you, Spy.... but then I hold the unpopular (apparently), and "un-PC" belief that some people just need killing. ;)

Also, there's the fact that "What's right ain't always legal, and what's legal ain't always right". :rolleyes:


J.C.
 
DNS, this would have been a bad shoot in Texas too bud, with it occurring at 10AM and all. There could be more to what happened, but some people here are far too eager to roll around in blood. You all ought be be ashamed of the flimsy justifications you're coming up with for murder.

...

SomeKid:

Justify it however you want, but if you think that getting your house spray-painted is in any way equivalent to having your livelyhood and sustenance stolen, as Exodus 22 is referring to, I think you are going to be sorely disappointed at some point in the future.

...

The correct way to have handled this is what pete f alluded to at the end of his post.
 
Daniel,

Exodus 22:2 does not allude to anything. It is quite clear. If a dirtbag is breaking in (tresspassing), and you kill him, it is ok. Period. No alluding at all. It is very clear.
 
Major violence in neighborhoods starts with disrespecting other peoples property. If no one steps up and confronts the perpetrators they get bolder.

That being said Rubber bullets are a cheep alternative to legal fees, first two shots can be rubbers, if that doesn't deter them, you can always have the next round be buckshot.

as far as peperballs go, I have some myself, I went to the scene of a riot the next morning and picked up the unbroken ones. something like one in 10 or 20 doesn't break.

I would recomed against the peper spray, at least in california. If you use it when you are not in immediate life threatening danger you can get charged with a nasty felony.

We can't pass judgement without knowing all the facts, what if he looked like he went for a gun?
 
I have talked to police involved in the situation.


Let us just say the news only gets about 20% right.


This was my former neighborhood, it has a long history of gang violence.
Although the juvie got arrested for the shooting,

This is being related to a duel. Tagging the kids house was like calling him a chicken or slapping his face with a glove in another era.

The tagging was very inflamatory and was between, it appears, black and hispanic gnag members. This is GANG VIOLENCE, not a homeowner protecting his property.

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/409638.html not a lot more but enough to show some of the tags behind the pedestrian.

Although not confirmed in print, I was told all three participants have lengthy sheets.
 
I can see Sarah Brady's group planning the next money pledge drive for MN...

"Another tragic death of a sweet and innocent child at the hands of a... a... a GUN!!!"

Problem being, even we here at THR over-react/knee-jerk react (whichever), when we read of such things... You gotta put the proper spin on it.

Sing along with me now, "Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do?"...

Spin or context. While it MIGHT happen in my neighborhood, I PROBABLY wouldn't react as did the shooter... as I've got other things to live (and die) for. In his case, just another day in the 'hood. Life can be tough in some areas of our nation.

Even tagging can get ya killed.

There's a lesson or two to be learned here, not that anyone involved will.

But we can. And should.

(Note to self... Should I ever go tagging a rival's house, bring guns and wear kevlar)
 
As it appears to be gang related, I'm not going to shed a tear for the dead guy or the kid that's in jail. It'd be nice of they could pin felony murder on the 3rd guy. One banger in the morgue and two in jail, everyone wins.
 
From the information given, the shooter is in legal dire straits. However, I don't have any sympathy for the puke that died.......consider it the Darwin factor. People doing stupid things shouldn't survive to procreate.
If this is a case of rival bangers, then my math will agree with repsychler's.
 
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