Greek women guerrillas and their guns

[AlexanderA]

I found these pictures on the Web, and I thought they might be of some interest in this forum. They are from the 2nd Greek Civil War circa 1947. The DSE (Communists) was totally integrated between men and women, while the Nationalist side had only male fighters.

The guns are all WW2 pickups. These women seem very determined. But remember that they were the losers.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

K98s, M1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauers, No4 Mk1s, Sten and Bren guns, MP40s, Beretta M38/42 SMGs, and a Panzerfaust.

 

[Riomouse911]

K98s, M1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauers, No4 Mk1s, Sten and Bren guns, MP40s, Beretta M38/42 SMGs, and a Panzerfaust.

Good eye! It truly was “Run whatcha brung” during those times.

Stay safe.

 

[bannockburn]

I think I see a couple of German MP41 submachine guns in one of the photos.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I think I see a couple of German M41 submachine guns in one of the photos.

Boom, you nailed it. Those are MP41s in the 2nd photo. The Beretta SMG is very, very similar, but the magwell is a giveaway.

 

[Speedo66]

I was in Greece in 1971, I saw plenty of guns there under the military dictatorship of Papadopoulos, and a very worried populous.

Same in Spain in 1970, soldiers were everywhere toting left over German WWII weapons from the Spanish Civil War. Franco was no bargain, either.

Thankfully, both dictators are gone, and democracy restored.

 

[George Dickel]

I was in Greece in 1971, I saw plenty of guns there under the military dictatorship of Papadopoulos, and a very worried populous.

Same in Spain in 1970, soldiers were everywhere toting left over German WWII weapons from the Spanish Civil War. Franco was no bargain, either.

Thankfully, both dictators are gone, and democracy restored.

If I remember correctly the year, the wife and I with another couple went to Barcelona in 1971. Armed, looked like military, border guards at the entry to Spain and long gun armed police on horseback in Barcelona. We were setting on the beach watching the sun go down when about 12 soldiers marched towards us. It really freaked us out until they started dropping individual soldiers at various points on the beach. Apparently guarding the tourists from what I don't know.

 

[AlexanderA]

I was in Greece in 1971, I saw plenty of guns there under the military dictatorship of Papadopoulos, and a very worried populous.

Weapons were surrendered by the Greek guerrillas after the first round of the Greek Civil War, pursuant to the Varkiza truce of Feb. 19, 1945:



Coincidentally, this was right after the Yalta Conference, where Stalin conceded to the British a 90% sphere of influence in Greece. Orders went out from Moscow for the Greek Communists to disarm, and most of them (reluctantly) complied. But you can see from the picture above that the surrendered weapons were not the best in their arsenal.

There were holdout groups, and the guerrilla movement was reconstituted in 1946, leading to the second round of the Greek Civil War, which lasted until 1949. At the end of that, there was no mass surrender of weapons. They just went underground.

There was another huge influx of weapons (mainly AK-47's) after the fall of communism in neighboring Albania, in 1991. So between the WW2 holdovers, and the Albanian AK's, Greece is awash with illegal guns. People just ignore the laws when it suits them.

There is sort of an unwritten understanding in Greece: the authorities won't push gun confiscation too hard, and in return the dissidents won't use firearms in their (many) riots and demonstrations. They content themselves with liberal use of Molotov cocktails. (And incidentally, the formal Communist Party (the KKE) is highly disciplined. They demonstrate, but never riot. The troublemakers are various Maoist and Trotskyite offshoots, and just plain nihilists.)

 

[Remington1911]

If you like this kind of thing, run over to gunboards, they live for this over there.

 

[Chief TC]

Thanks for some history lessons - very interesting.

 

[Ignition Override]

Did the US send crates of M-1 Garands to Greece soon after the Civil War, if not during?

My CMP Service Grade Special reportedly had been stored in Greece a long time.

Remington1911:
He might already have a seasoned history there. Many people out there have two very different User Names on gun websites.

 

[AlexanderA]

Did the US send crates of M-1 Garands to Greece soon after the Civil War, if not during?

Assistance to the Greek government was pretty much a British show up until 1947. At that point, the British weren't able to continue, and asked the U.S. to take over. With the Truman Doctrine of 1947, huge amounts of military supplies from the U.S. began arriving. But the standard Greek rifle until the end of the Civil War in 1949 was still the British No. 4 Enfield. Rearmament with Garands was well underway by the time the Greek contingent was sent to Korea.

There was one scandal with Garands during the time of the Papadopoulos junta (1967-74). A number of Garands in the Greek inventory were secretly sold to Libya, and replaced by rocks, in their crates. This wasn't discovered until after the fall of the junta.

The standard rifle now is the G3, produced locally under license. Garands are still used for ceremonial purposes. Some elite units are now using the U.S. M4.

 

[FL-NC]

I like everything about those pics!

 

[AlexanderA]

Notice that in these pictures, there is no provision for the carrying of ammunition, or other items needed for combat. Where is the web gear? Plus, the uniforms are too clean. The conclusion is that these are posed propaganda pictures. We don't even know whether those were their permanently assigned guns, or just guns used as props for propaganda. Just hand them the guns for the purposes of the pictures.

 

[Conelrad]

Probably not in Greece, but it is hard to beat a hot meal with an AK...

 

[AlexanderA]

Probably not in Greece, but it is hard to beat a hot meal with an AK...

Nursing mothers would be a clear liability in combat. I'm pretty sure the Greek Communists didn't do that.

Tito's Partisans (who also had co-ed units) had a strict rule: men and women caught "fraternizing" (having sex) would be immediately court-martialed and shot. Harsh but necessary. Otherwise, discipline and unit cohesion would break down very rapidly.

 

[Mosin77]

Yeah I know the communists historically, and some other armies these days, love the idea of coed combat, but those ladies’ hair is way too pretty for actual combat soldiers. I’m saying staged for PR.

 

[Styx]

Yeah I know the communists historically, and some other armies these days, love the idea of coed combat, but those ladies’ hair is way too pretty for actual combat soldiers. I’m saying staged for PR.

I agree.... PR stunt.

 

[lemaymiami]

Enjoyed the pics... I know that women can be fierce warriors when required to be - Me? I'd be worried about their knives...

 

[4v50 Gary]

Interesting assortment of surplus weapons.

I hope we never have another Civil War here.

 

[Styx]

Interesting assortment of surplus weapons.

I hope we never have another Civil War here.

With how things are going I hope we do

 

[Remington1911]

Interesting assortment of surplus weapons.

I hope we never have another Civil War here.

I agree with you, people that have smelled it first hand tend to think this way.

That is the thing that has stuck with me the most, the smell of the place. I have been told by others, both older and younger then I that each place has a smell.

I hope I never find out what Americas civil war smells like.

 

[AlexanderA]

I agree with you, people that have smelled it first hand tend to think this way.

The events of 1944-1949 (the first and second rounds of the Greek civil war) were so traumatic for the Greeks that there has been no insurgency since that time, not even during the military dictatorship (1967-74). After the fall of the Junta, the Communist Party was officially legalized. So what? They regularly get 5%-7% of the vote, sit in Parliament, and are not a factor in governance.

 

[Remington1911]

The events of 1944-1949 (the first and second rounds of the Greek civil war) were so traumatic for the Greeks that there has been no insurgency since that time, not even during the military dictatorship (1967-74). After the fall of the Junta, the Communist Party was officially legalized. So what? They regularly get 5%-7% of the vote, sit in Parliament, and are not a factor in governance.

Yet.

 

[jeepnik]

If I remember correctly the year, the wife and I with another couple went to Barcelona in 1971. Armed, looked like military, border guards at the entry to Spain and long gun armed police on horseback in Barcelona. We were setting on the beach watching the sun go down when about 12 soldiers marched towards us. It really freaked us out until they started dropping individual soldiers at various points on the beach. Apparently guarding the tourists from what I don't know.

Protecting tourists for members of the ETA, Basque Separatists. I was stationed there for two years. The police and military had a very good relationship with US military. While it was officially forbidden most of the guys I ws stationed with carried concealed handguns when off base. And just about everyone living off base had some sort of firearm. The ETA liked to kill Americans. American tourists were a plum target.

Oh and these anti Franco patriots showed their kinder side by doing things like blowing up buses full of women and kids or sending a propane tanker into a campground on a busy weekend. You do not want to know what either of those look like.

Oh, and the bus bombers were caught, tried, convicted and sentenced to death. Terrible Franco decided they would die using a traditional method of execution in Spain. All of the "civilized nations" railed at the thought andso Franco recanted. He shot them on national TV instead.