"Gun ban basically dead"

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Stupid Politicians

"Y'all need to get over this "they are stupid" thing. "They" are NOT stupid and their laws are NOT stupid when viewed as part of an agenda to disarm law abiding citizens".


Anyone who is unable to assimilate logical verbiage is stupid, as far as I'm concerned and I don't care what materialistic facade is involved. Take a look at Feinstein's exchange with Ted Cruz regarding the first, second and fourth constitutional amendments, as a
perfect example of a stupid politician. She isn't even smart enough to come up with logical counter arguments.

Review here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv86dCW85uw&feature=player_embedded
 
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She isn't even smart enough to come up with logical counter arguments.

'Ignorant' may be a more appropriate word than 'stupid', but that doesn't even matter. They are definitely 'cunning'.

It doesn't matter whether they can make a logical argument or not, or know what 'the shoulder thing that goes up' actually is. It doesn't matter, because they always frame the argument in their own emotional terms, anyway. Facts, logic, sense, and history are all on our side. They can't possibly win using using those tools. They know this, so they want to win using their most powerful tools: Emotion and irrationality. Those can be more powerful tools than ours, and we must be ready. Logic and reason are not what runs the majority of people. It's feelings and perceptions. So it doesn't matter what they call things, or how inaccurate or ignorant they may be. It doesn't matter, because they are not playing on those terms to begin with.
 
If they've really lost the momentum, then they're just positioning themselves so they can exploit the next tragedy.
 
In Illinois we are fighting a holding action. We have all the liberals north of I-80 and the rest of the state. Southern Illinois Democrats are pushing back against the Obama zombies that run Chicago/Cook County. A mass shooting, not just the 20 people shot every weekend, would roll us over the cliff. I also think if the Chitown mob would grandfather guns and mags already owned we would
have a ban enacted,Its close. We are under court court order to get CCW by
June or it becomes constitutional carry.
 
And while everybody is distracted by the drama in Congress, they are successfully pushing the agenda at the state level in as many states as they can. It's the Australian strategy.
That only got a VERY limited efficacy.

The only places passing those laws are ones you'd expect would.

Texas, Ohio, Pennsylvania? Not so much.
 
So far there have been multiple attacks at the state level, sadly CO passed to many.
Not many years ago it wouldn't have even been considered.
 
That only got a VERY limited efficacy.

This time around.

The only places passing those laws are ones you'd expect would.

Texas, Ohio, Pennsylvania? Not so much.

Not this time, but as Zoogster pointed out, it is a gradual process. It's a progressive movement and they are making progress. Texas is definitely in their sights, (oops, they wouldn't use sights, would they).
 
We need everyone of these gun grabbing politicians to know they lost their position because of their attack on the 2nd Amendment. Until they are all unemployed, and everyone knows exactly why, this will not be over.
 
If they've really lost the momentum, then they're just positioning themselves so they can exploit the next tragedy.

That's exactly right. Waiting like vultures.

We need everyone of these gun grabbing politicians to know they lost their position because of their attack on the 2nd Amendment.

Yup. It's not even necessarily about the guns, it's about freedom vs control. They hate the fact that, when it comes right down to it, you cannot truly maintain control over someone who is armed. They want the ability to manifest that control. Some circuit within them is snapped, and I'd bet they themselves don't feel in control of their lives if they don't feel they have control over others.

Just think, this is the same crowd that wants to peer into our emails, cell phones, etc. Bloomberg: 'stop and frisk' and illegal large sodas? Really?! They do not like freedom. Whether it's the freedom to keep and bear arms or drink soda.

It's a progressive movement and they are making progress

Yup.

Texas is definitely in their sights,

With a foothold like the Austin area, why not try? They have nothing to lose. Imagine if they were to enact anything in Texas. That would embolden them to no end. No place is safe.
 
Until they are all unemployed, and everyone knows exactly why, this will not be over.

Do you really think it will be over then? That lesson has been taught before. Each generation has to learn it anew.
 
On background checks and the NICS database:

We already have them in place and they don't even prosecute when criminals try to get around it.

That is because the NICS database is so riddled with inaccuracies that they cant tell who is prohibited and who isn't. Starting prosecutions based on an unreliable database is a non-starter. Hundreds and thousands of folks would go to jail, post bond (or sit in jail), go to court, be exonerated, countersue, and end up costing the Feds a whole lot of money and a whole lot of very, very bad PR. The whole "background check" would be dead in the water... forever. Remember, if only a few % of records are incorrect, that represents a LOT of innocent people.

They would rather quote how they "kept 10,000 guns from criminals" than admit the database stinks, and that they falsely rejected a pile of legitimate purchases.

Further, an entry in a NICS database is not PROOF of ineligibility. It is merely proof that someone put a record in that database with my (your) name on it. To rely on NICS, the Feds would have to research every entry back to its source. Sometimes, that source may no longer exist!

For proof of all that I have asserted, lets look at ME:

I was falsely denied. NICS had me listed as a felon due to a clerical error when a small town was digitizing their records. Those physical records no longer exist! I spent a year clearing my record. When anyone actually looked at it, it was CLEAR that a misdemeanor and $100 fine from a youthful indiscretion was incorrectly transcribed into the state/federal databases as a FELONY. Sure, they could (and did) deny my purchase of a firearm. But if they had tried to PROSECUTE me for it, nothing but badness for the State/Feds (and their much vaunted database) could have come from it. Yes, it would have been bad for me to start, but it would quickly be shown to be a comedy of governmental errors. That is not the thing you want to put on display to the voting population. As a side note, I took on clearing my name. I did it because it cost me nothing. I got lucky that a clerk in the police department where the mistake was made (20 years ago) took it upon herself to fix this error. In doing so, she got the police chief and a judge to sign off on the change to my state record, which fixed the Federal/NICS record. If I had needed an lawyer to get this done, I might not have had the financial resources to do so. So just because someone in the NICS system was denied and did not appeal STILL does not imply "guilt". It may very well imply lack of financial resources.

What this means is that the stuff in the NICS database is not PROOF of ineligibility. If you arrest someone for something in NICS, his/her guilt is NOT BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. There is an appeal process! With an appeal process, they have essentially admitted that the NICS database contains errors. And knowing that, every single one of those denials would have to be researched in-depth before bringing charges against someone for a denial. Worse than that, every one of those denials would have to be researched in depth before even making an arrest.


With such obvious flaws, why do politicians keep pushing NICS background checks? I can only think of one reason: backdoor registration.
 
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I agree that the state level demands critical attention, and not just because I live in WA. Ok, yeah, because I live in WA, sure, but also because of the whole momentum and straw vs. camel thing. We get a few more states to go CO and it starts to look more normal at the national level.

Honestly, we need to start feeding our national level political machine better regional candidates down the road. Garbage in, garbage choices out.
 
Honestly, we need to start feeding our national level political machine better regional candidates down the road. Garbage in, garbage choices out.

All politicians have to start somewhere. I'm going to start asking my city council and school board candidates to state their position on the 2nd Amendment.
 
Background checks will require a photo ID. So look on the bright side. If they want to required a photo ID to exercise a fundamental right, there should now be no objections to requiring photo IDs to vote.
Here in my city they did, for the first time I've ever seen it, at the presidential election. Guy behind me, speaking very broken english, said he left his in his car. They told him to go get it. He never came back.:neener:

Not that it mattered, but it might have, had every city followed suit.:(
 
Why do you think they want to give amnesty to the 11 million (20 million?) illegal aliens that are already here? They say it's to get them drivers licenses so they can get insurance and protect the citizens. They also get on payrolls for payroll taxes, etc. However, how many illegal aliens vote republican? I'm just curious.... our present government wouldn't have any hidden agendas, would it?
 
That is on a federal level. There are still states out there molesting the freedom of law abiding citizens. See CO, CT, CA, MA, IL



We already have them in place and they don't even prosecute when criminals try to get around it. 44 prosecutions out of 10k+ denials. Now some of them are legitimate mistakes, but not that kind of disparity.
DO NOT buy any weapons made by Manufacturers in those states. Let the Manf. know why as well.

MOVE OUT!
 
According to Gallup polls over the last 50 years, support for the proposition to ban handguns has gone from 60% support to 73% opposition. More telling to me is that the Undecided opinion has gone from 4% to 1%.

I think the exploitation of the Newtown atrocity may well prove to be the last gasp of the gun ban movement. Not that they will give up: the Temperance Union is still around 80 some years after federal Prohibition was repealed.

I hope people will see gun control for what it is: an unproductive moral panick stampede like the Satanic Ritual Abuse scare or bans on comic books.

(And if they had banned those 30 round magazine clips, once the bullets were all fired out of them, no body would have bullets left to shoot according to Senator Diane DeGette D-CO.)
We need to pray and help the innocents, but as for the anti 2nd folks - kick the hell out of them while they are down!
 
...and that seems reasonable.

^^This is exactly how they win...one small piece at a time until one day you find yourself standing in your back yard with nothing but a stick to protect yourself...

NO Compromises...period!
 
CO was expected?
I'd have to say yes.
When I was stationed at Ft Carson, I just could not get over how many liberal/progressives I kept running in to every time I went into Colorado Springs.
The state is absolutely beautiful, but I saw it being destroyed from within a long time ago.
Sometimes outsiders see more than the people who live someplace.
 
They not only can, they will.
Gun shows are not just random events. They are termed "sanctioned events", which is why dealers are allowed to conduct business there. OTherwise a dealer is prohibited from selling outside of his premises. If they apply the background checks only to sanctioned events for everyone it will a) please the anti's, b) annoy fewer pro gun people, c)be largely enforceable. It makes perfect sense politically, which is why they will do it.

And looky there, exactly what is being proposed:
The emerging deal would expand required background checks for sales at gun shows and online but exempt transactions like face-to-face, noncommercial purchases, said Senate staffers and lobbyists, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks. Currently, the checks are required only for sales handled through licensed gun dealers.

http://news.yahoo.com/bipartisan-deal-background-checks-close-065759715--politics.html

Never mind that online sales are already subject to background check when the dealer/transfer agent delivers the gun. Reality isn't really important here.
 
they're just positioning themselves so they can exploit the next tragedy
I wonder how they are going to spin and exploit 'the next tragedy' (Lone Star on Tuesday) which did not involve a firearm?
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