Gun Clubs & NRA Membership

[Frank Ettin]

...How many of the nra members here are members of the aarp?...

I for one am not. All AARP solicitation go immediately into the shredder.

 

[SwampWolf]

Same here. AARP lost its way (such as it was) a long time ago.

 

[benEzra]

Banned? No. Laughed at for being ugly black rifles? He*l yes.

I'm sure the Old Guard in the early 20th century said much the same thing about those newfangled military-style bolt-actions that all the young whippersnappers were shooting. After all, high-powered bolt-actions, and calibers like .30-06 Springfield and 8mm Mauser, were designed to kill human beings at extreme ranges and had no legitimate sporting purpose. Yet somehow, new shooters ignored the criticism and embraced bolt-actions in droves. And it wasn't that long before bolt rifles became the dominant sporting rifle in the United States.

The wheel has come full circle, hasn't it? Now it's the military-style bolt-actions being held up as the One True Way by the old guard, and it's the modern-looking autoloaders with protruding handgrips that have become the dominant sporting rifles in this country. The "black rifles" aren't just the future of the shooting sports, they are the present. Look around.

Keep enjoying your military-style bolt-actions, and your military-style lever-actions. Heck, enjoy military-style falling-blocks and flintlocks, if that floats your boat; I won't laugh at all. I'd appreciate the same common courtesy in return, but if you feel the need to laugh at those who choose differently than you, do so. Just don't be surprised when you don't find many Gen-X and younger shooters following your path.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Well, I've got some of all of them. My favorite action of all time is the 1903 Springfield, but I enjoy Winchester lever actions, my M1 Garand, my Mini-14 and my AR15.

And just a reminder to anyone who has failed to notice it: Hunting and target shooting are not mentioned in the second amendment.

 

[spoon]

joining the NRA

Guys-- Guys

Some of us are carrying a lot of water for you....
With out the NRA none of us would have a gun ....

REMEMBER I AM THE NRA

This should be like a fresh drink of cool water in July to be a member of the NRA.

Let us not forget what has happened to England, Canada, oh crap, all of them just about.
You want to be like them? If you do, vote for Obama and his "gang" again..
I do not want to walk with you....I fear this path to much to give up now...

 

[mljdeckard]

This thread reminds me why I am in the process of switching all of my hunting to evil black rifles. When someone tells me; "You can'tg use an AR-pattern rifle for hunting.", I want to be able to tell them, "I use NOTHING BUT AR-pattern rifles for hunting."

 

[TexasRifleman]

I guess I am just dense.

I have always believed that it was the person pulling the trigger, not the firearm, that decided what the intended use was.

I believed it so much I even quoted Teddey Roosevelt, who believed the same, in my signature.

How could I have known that those inanimate objects in my gun safe were just man killing machines waiting to trick me.

And all of those deer that I've eaten that fell to an M14? I guess that was just a trick as well?

I am now afraid to take an AR out of the closet for fear it will make me go on a rampage.......since my own free will apparently has nothing to do with it.

 

[smoking357]

As a gun owner, you should be willing to join an organization such as the NRA or the Second Amendment Foundation as without organizations like these, the forces of organized gun bigotry would have prevailed long ago.

So the NRA opposed the '34 NFA, '68 GCA, Lautenberg, etc.? Did the NRA intervene on behalf of Paul Ogden in his suit against the City of Indianapolis over firearm return policy? Did the NRA attempt to keep Alan Gura from filing Heller? Did the NRA get permission to argue in McDonald in opposition to Alan Gura's wishes? Did the NRA fight to keep misdemeanants from having their gun rights stolen?

The fact is, forced associations are noxious to freedom, and the NRA has done a lot to hurt our cause. You're entitled to your politics, but others are entitled to disagree.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Did the NRA intervene on behalf of Paul Ogden in his suit against the City of Indianapolis over firearm return policy? Did the NRA attempt to keep Alan Gura from filing Heller? Did the NRA get permission to argue in McDonald in opposition to Alan Gura's wishes? Did the NRA fight to keep misdemeanants from having their gun rights stolen?

The NRA didn't cook my breakfast this morning either, but I still support them.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...the NRA has done a lot to hurt our cause....

And what organizations have actually done more to help our cause? And exactly how?

...Did the NRA attempt to keep Alan Gura from filing Heller?...

For just one example, the NRA has a very good reason for it's position at the time. Rehnquist and O'Connor were on the Court and not well disposed to our arguments. An adverse ruling would have been disastrous. When the composition of the Court changed in a manner congenial to our interests, the NRA became a major supporter of the litigation.

 

[smoking357]

you do realize the game of politics is played in the real world, not your fantasy world, right? when it becomes apparent that anti-gun legislation has the votes to pass, would you rather they let the other side do all the writing?

for instance...would you have preferred the AWB not have a sunset clause? without that, it would likely be in place forever. legislation rarely gets repealed (to my great dismay!).

How about: "Members! The Constitution is dead! Take to the streets with your guns. Muster at your local NRA meeting point with your arms, and we will occupy all government buildings until the Constitution is restored. Long live America! Long live the Constitution!"

Collaborating with the enemy is never acceptable. Cf. Mayor Bates in Red Dawn.


"Moderation in temper is always a virtue;
but moderation in principle is always a vice."

Thomas Paine

"In matters of principle, stand like a rock; in matters of taste, swim with the current."

Thomas Jefferson

 

[mljdeckard]

There's a difference between "collaborating with the enemy" and using the due process of government to correct rights violations. If the enemy is the government, are you saying we shouldn't ever talk to our anti-gun legislators or file lawsuits at all? After all, to talk to them is to acknowledge their legitimacy.

 

[Frank Ettin]

you do realize the game of politics is played in the real world, not your fantasy world, right? ....

How about: "Members! The Constitution is dead! Take to the streets with your guns. Muster at your local NRA meeting point with your arms, and we will occupy all government buildings until the Constitution is restored. Long live America! Long live the Constitution!"

Collaborating with the enemy is never acceptable. Cf. Mayor Bates in Red Dawn....

It looks like your answer to texas bulldog's question is "no."

 

[smoking357]

For just one example, the NRA has a very good reason for it's position at the time. Rehnquist and O'Connor were on the Court and not well disposed to our arguments. An adverse ruling would have been disastrous. When the composition of the Court changed in a manner congenial to our interests, the NRA became a major supporter of the litigation.

Ahem, I was actually at GRPC, post Heller. I heard Gura and Levy speak.

The NRA is now being asked to butt out of McDonald, and it could do gun owners a huge favor by doing so.

By the way, if our rights are subject to the opinions of five politicians, they really aren't worth much. We must remind ourselves that to secure our rights, governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. We should further consider that whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it. If we have no rights but only those privileges that five government employees wish to confer on us, we ought to consider establishing a new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as shall seem most likely to effect our Safety and Happiness.

 

[smoking357]

There's a difference between "collaborating with the enemy" and using the due process of government to correct rights violations. If the enemy is the government, are you saying we shouldn't ever talk to our anti-gun legislators or file lawsuits at all? After all, to talk to them is to acknowledge their legitimacy.

Oh, talk plenty - at gunpoint. That is the idea of our form of government. Do what you will to protect my rights and to discharge your duties under the Constitution. Tread not upon these rights, or we will find new servants.

P.S. I am a member of the NRA and will always be so, though I do admit huge faults in the organization. Among the more activist gun owners, the NRA is called Negotiate Rights Away, and membership in the NRA is seen as a naive gesture, a slight improvement over membership in the Brady Campaign.

 

[berettaprofessor]

How about: "Members! The Constitution is dead! Take to the streets with your guns. Muster at your local NRA meeting point with your arms, and we will occupy all government buildings until the Constitution is restored.

Wow. Doing this at the current time will only get anyone who follows it in jail or dead. Someone on this board (Catherine?) has a signature that "it's too late to fix things and too early to start shooting"....and they're correct. As another thread recently concluded...you'll know when it's time when you run out into the streets with your rifle and you're not the only one there.

I'm an NRA Life Member who doesn't agree with everything they do. I particularly didn't like that I got a call at 6:00 this evening (Sunday) asking me to listen to a recording of LaPierre spreading fear about the impending UN Gun Ban. I don't like such obvious ploys aimed to increase the NRA/ILA budget without necessarily having a real target. Listen up Wayne, this wolf-shouting hurts your cause with your own group.

But I'm a Life Member because the voting power of the NRA is unrivaled. Yes, Gura's a genius and the GOA has a place and voice as well. But it's the NRA who has the political clout to say enough is enough. They each have their place. Gura and the SAF carry the fight through the courts, the NRA takes the fight to the political realm and occasionally gets one wrong, but usually gets it right.

 

[Justin]

So the NRA opposed the '34 NFA, '68 GCA, Lautenberg, etc.?

Despite claims to the contrary, the NRA and it's membership did oppose at least portions of the NFA. If not for their actions, the NFA would undoubtedly require a $200 transfer tax and federal registration for the use of handguns. The same goes for the Gun Control Act of 1968. Without the actions of the NRA, the GCA would have included federal ownership registration requirements. No doubt opposing the GCA was a difficult task since public sentiment in favor of gun control was at an all time high due to the assassinations of Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy.

Did the NRA intervene on behalf of Paul Ogden in his suit against the City of Indianapolis over firearm return policy?

I don't know anything about this case. There are plenty of times when the NRA doesn't take up a legal battle because the case isn't one that could be won, and would therefore set bad legal precedent.

Did the NRA attempt to keep Alan Gura from filing Heller? Did the NRA get permission to argue in McDonald in opposition to Alan Gura's wishes?

The NRA's actions with regard to both cases that Gura has been involved with have been, frankly, ridiculous. These actions by the NRA are some of the things they've done with which I most disagree. But rather than get bent out of shape and drop my NRA membership, I opted to support the 2nd Amendment Foundation along with the NRA.

Did the NRA fight to keep misdemeanants from having their gun rights stolen?

If you're again referring to Lautenberg, it is my understanding that the NRA did oppose the law proposed by Lautenberg. Of course, the fact that the NRA lost out on that one particular legal battle, while having opposed anti-gun measures that were continually proposed by Frank Lautenberg seems to gain them no credit.

If you've actually taken the time to read my posts about the NRA, you know there are plenty of things they've done with which I disagree. It still doesn't change the fact that they're considered the most powerful lobbying organization in all of Washington DC.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...If we have no rights but only those privileges that five government employees wish to confer on us, we ought to consider establishing a new government,...

I guess that's your plan then. Let us know how it works out. Have a nice day.

 

[Justin]

For those of you who believe the NRA just negotiates our rights away, would you please care to point to even a single piece of legislation that Gun Owner's of America has proposed that was subsequently passed into law?

 

[mljdeckard]

Smoking 357, you are the first THR member I have EVER out on my ignore list.

 

[Zundfolge]

So the NRA opposed the '34 NFA, '68 GCA, Lautenberg, etc.?

The NRA-ILA was formed AFTER the '68 GCA (in RESPONSE TO the GCA).

Prior to the formation of the NRA-ILA the NRA was NOT a political/lobbying organization, they were purely a sportsman's/education organization.

Its like complaining that the SCCA and NHRA don't fight in DC against CAFE standards, seatbelt laws or the GM bailout.

 

[smoking357]

Smoking 357, you are the first THR member I have EVER out on my ignore list.

If that's what quoting Jefferson gets me, wait 'til I get around to Henry.

 

[Justin]

Yeah, quoting Jefferson, that's it.

It's not that you're saying things that people disagree with, so much as the blatantly antagonistic way in which you make your arguments.

 

[TexasRifleman]

So the NRA opposed the '34 NFA, '68 GCA, Lautenberg, etc.

The NRA actually re-wrote portions of NFA. And you better be glad they did.

The original draft included all handguns. This means you would have to pay the $200 transfer tax on every handgun you bought, and have to get your CLEO to sign off for every handgun purchase.

NRA, which was not a political organization at all at the time by the way, was asked to help with the legislation and they re-wrote portions of it to remove handguns.

Machineguns were doomed regardless thanks to the gang violence of the day. NFA was going to pass in one form or another, that's an absolute fact.

So really, if you are going to use examples you should at least get your facts straight, and tell the whole story.

Putting that BS spin on the story to make it fit your argument is dishonest, and even if you have a valid point it disappears when you have to resort to dishonesty to make the point.

 

[taliv]

talking to anti gun senators...

this months' NRA mag has a little blurb in it about the pro-gun legislation the NRA helped get into the appropriations bills. it says we should all thank Murtha for helping get the pro-gun legislation passed. He's definitely not someone we (or our men in uniform) thank very often.