gun shops in europe?

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

coosbaycreep

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
435
Location
near Roseburg, Oregon
I was in europe for two weeks last month, and only seen two gun shops while I was there. I know guns aren't as popular...or legal in europe as they are in America, but the two shops I did see were rather pathetic.

I went to one in Bucharest, Romania, and they only had 8 guns in there! I've got three times that many in my safe, and I'm just poor white trash. To be fair, the few guns they had were all super expensive brands like Merkel, which is a far cry from my small collection of mossbergs and keltecs, but still, I thought it was pretty sad. At least the chick running the place was hot though....in a third world, malnourished, vampire kinda way.

The only other gun shop I seen was in Budapest, Hungary. It was closed the day I was there and had bars on the windows so I couldn't really peek in, but most of the stickers on the windows were for American gun makers like Remington and Winchester.

So are gun shops/selection really as limited in europe as it appeared to me?

Another thing that surprised me about the places I visited in europe (romanian, austria, slovakia, germany, hungary), was just how much graffitti and hoodlums there was. Every major city I went to looked just as bad as any comparably sized American city. Romania is probably the worst place I've ever visited in my life. In fact, I felt more unsafe there than I ever have in Mexico.

Although I wasn't a victim of any sort of crimes or anything while I was there, I do know that if I had to live in any of those countries, I'd rather have a gun to protect myself than to be reliant on the police, as europe appears just as dangerous as America does. Maybe I'm just an eternal pessimist (or maybe europeans are naive or in denial), but I just don't get how europeans can be so anti-gun, when their countries feel just as unsafe as ours does, only they don't have the right to protect themselves?

After talking to some of the folks over there, I was also amazed at how many of them thought America was some lawless nation overrun with gun loving hillibillies who rob, rape, and shoot everything in sight. Regardless of our last president, I was disappointed by the amount of anti-Americanism held by most of the people I talked to, and how most of them believed their nation's were so much better and safer than ours, even though they clearly have less freedoms. Makes me glad I live in the greatest state in the greatest nation on earth.
 
Romania. Formerly part of the Warsaw Pact. Hungary. Communist country until 1989.
"...in a third world, malnourished, vampire kinda way...." Translyvannia is part of Romania.
"...limited in Europe as it appeared to me?..." Eastern Europe, for sure. Not many in the rest of Europe either.
 
Isn't the 2nd Amendment great, read and learn the basics

The second Amendment is what makes this country feel safer than any other counrty on the earth.
Our government has not taken away the right for us americans to protect ourselves, or to own firearms. As most countries in Europe have done.

This is what it's all about.
From what I have studied and understand, the 2nd amendment was written with the intent of giving the people the right, to have the capability to protect themselves from the government and tyrannical rule.
The people will not be able to revolt when (not if) the government gets out of control, if their guns have been confiscated. So the 2nd amendment was written to protect the rights of the people to "keep" and "to bear arms" against the government when (not if) it gets out of control.

The rights of the "people" in the 2nd amendment was not just the right to own guns for their personal use, but to keep the government from taking their guns to avoid an anti-tyrannical revolt.

When it was written, the Royals in England had recently tried to force all of it's citizens to turn over all of their guns, including the shotguns they used to hunt for food to survive.
The Royals felt, that if the people weren't able to hunt for their own food they would be fully subjudicated to their rules and judgements.
The Royals thought they could command the "people" to live on what little they made available and if they were the "peoples" only means of food, they would have total control over the "people". The "people" could not revolt if they had only hay forks and basic farming tools against the government that had guns and cannons.
Simply put - If you didn't do what they wanted, they would starve you to death. Without any guns to revolt, the "people" were no threat and the Royals could, and did as they pleased.

Our forefathers made certain that we, "the american people" would always have the right to protect oursevles in a well armed militia from the government's absolute tyrannical control.

And because of that, we have the right to have guns in our homes, and the right to carry firearms as we go thru our daily lives.
Personal protection that is "concealed" keeps us safer for the most part.
The bad guys don't know who is "carrying", so they must be more selective of their victims. They must always be weary of the "armed victim" that will defend himself/herself if the need arises.
Just that possibility keeps us safer on our streets, than in any other country.

Thankfully somebody was thinking into the future when this country was founded.
The 2nd amendment does work!
The second was not written to give us the right "to own a gun".
It was written so that we could protect ourselves from the government.

Think this thru very carefully -
The government wrote a law, that give us the right to protect ourselves, from the very same government that wrote it.

And that's the 2nd amendment, isn't it grand!
 
"...The Royals..." Read the history again, but not written by an American. The Royals had nothing to do with it. England had long been a Constitutional Monarchy by 1776.
Your Second Ammendment has nothing to do with Eastern European gun shops either.
 
Here in the UK this is the only type of Gun Shop that Visitors are likely to see..

store4.jpg

There are Gun Shops but they are not allowed a public display. Here is the one I use at our local clay range.

newshop2.jpg

Although handguns and self loading centre fire rifles are not allowed in the UK, if you jump through lots of hoops you can own lots of long guns. I have 18 firearms.

Have seen many comments about us giving up our guns without a fight, what people have to remember is all guns are registered and owning an unregistered gun carries a FIVE year mandatory jail sentence.

BTW Have a look at this press report of a shop near me, raided for selling certain types of knifes. Yes even knives are banned.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8224578.stm
 
So are gun shops/selection really as limited in europe as it appeared to me?
Click to expand...

That's like going to a gunshop in California and asking if the selection is as limited in the USA...

You should have visited a gun shop in Luxembourg :D

I daresay the selection we have is even larger than in any American shop

You can take a look at these sites for example:

http://www.reloading-center.com/index.php (armes a feu==> occasion==> carabines)

http://www.armurerie.lu/Produits/produits.asp?P=1

http://www.arc.lu/english/produkte2.htm
 
Read your post..... Makes you wonder why everybody is breaking down our doors to get into this country......... if it`s as bad as they think/say.
 
romania

may be a bad example......


Here it is way safer than in the US.

I walk any street at any time, without having
the need to carry a gun.

A pepper spray and an awake mind will do.
 
Luxemberg, Switzerland, Belgium and France.

You mght be surprised by what you find.
 
I have been in gun shops in France they seemed okay to me except for the locked door and haveing to be buzzed in. The only gun shops I have been in in England was Purdy,Holland and Holland and Boss but that was why I was in those shops to see the mystery of $250,000 guns.
 
Mp7- what part of Hamburg do you live in? I lived there for a year and there are definitely places south of the Elbe that I would not go out after dark without a group. In the vast majority of the places that I have been to in the US, a can of mace would have been more than sufficient. I have never carried a gun for protection and do not own a handgun.

The only time that I have ever been jumped was near Hamburg city hall after a fireworks show in early September/late August. It was a group of 3 teenagers that obviously didn't know much. One of them jumped while punching a guy I was with. They ran off after we stood our ground.

Bottom line, I agree with the majority of the people posting: The majority of Western Europe is more or less as safe as the majority of the US and European gun laws are over the top. Seriously, there are plenty of good reasons why you might want/need a semi-auto hunting rifle.
 
Klineia: The gun laws in Europe are very different to those of the nanny state known as the UK.
We can an do own Semi Autos of all kinds, auto's a legal in some places as well. Pistols, revolvers et al are easy to get. Yes there are quirks in the law like everywhere else.

Silencers are over the counter in most countries for example. I have one for my .260, 9mm and .22 LR rifle and pistol. Thinking of getting one for my Vz 58.

Now the nanny state of UK, hell you need a police background check to drive your or your neighbours kids to the ball game.
 
Afy- Where are you located? In Germany gun ownership was highly regulated. At one time (this may have changed) you had to get a permit to own a gun (one permit per gun) that expired every three years and the government required that gun owners purchase insurance.
 
MP7 -There's a big difference between 'feeling' safe and BEING safe. Those who are not allowed to arm themselves have a sense of peace because there is nothing they can do about their own safety. They will tell themselves that they are whether they are safe or not. I lived in Denmark and Germany for four years, including more than a couple of trips to Hamburg, and I will absolutely tell you, you are fooling yourself. Europe has the exact same crime problems as America. (illegal) Immigrants running drug and human smuggling trade. The actual victimization rate, meaning, the likelihood that you will be the victim of a violent crime, is much higher in pretty much all of Europe than in America. In America, the bulk of the violence is concentrated to bad parts of some big cities and the border crossing points.

When you start carrying a gun for protection, you have a change in attitude. You start to see things you ignored before, because it's even more important to avoid trouble in the first place. You realize all of the things you were missing. When you are then forced to not carry a gun, because you move somewhere that denies your right to self-defense, you are faced with the reality of how vulnerable you are. You will never feel 'safe' with pepper spray after you have carried a gun.

And yes, no matter how much I love Paris, Prague, Copenhagen, Berlin, Munich, and London, I am always glad to come home. (By the way, I have witnessed violent crime in ALL of those cities.)
 
Have seen many comments about us giving up our guns without a fight, what people have to remember is all guns are registered and owning an unregistered gun carries a FIVE year mandatory jail sentence.
Click to expand...

The problem was that you all didn't fight hard enough to defeat the earlier, seemingly lesser bits of gun control that allowed it to get to that point. That is why we here in the USA so adamantly oppose any sort of registration.

Here it is way safer than in the US.

I walk any street at any time, without having
the need to carry a gun.

A pepper spray and an awake mind will do.
Click to expand...

While the homicide rate in the US is higher, through Europe you have, on average, a greater likelihood of being a victim of violence than in the United States. Remember, the worst violent crimes are not the only violent crimes. Also remember that the extreme majority of our violent crime is concentrated in the major urban areas, most of which have stricter gun control. Of course, the population density and diversity is a greater factor in the crime rate, but the likelihood of victims being unarmed certainly plays a part in that. In the area where I reside, over 85% of households are armed, and the attitude that prevails in this area is one of fierce independence and protection of life and property. There hasn't been a documented homicide or forceable rape in my lifetime in this county. About the only violence out here is domestic, the occasional barfight, or teenagers at school duking it out. Property crimes are also minimal; the last police chase here was 2-1/2 years ago. Two teenagers stole an SUV, got made when they ran a stopsign in front of a sheriff's deputy.

The gun laws in Europe are very different to those of the nanny state known as the UK.
We can an do own Semi Autos of all kinds, auto's a legal in some places as well. Pistols, revolvers et al are easy to get. Yes there are quirks in the law like everywhere else.

Silencers are over the counter in most countries for example
Click to expand...

Not trying to start a pissing match here, but can you buy a firearm whenever you feel like it without first obtaining some sort of license or permit? While I despise the NFA regulations, I find our restrictions on silencers and full autos far more palletable than having licensing and registration requirements for ALL guns.
 
Exactly. There's no need to strictly regulate silencers when the guns they go on are already so strictly regulated most people won't bother getting them at all.

I did know a guy in Denmark who has a 10/22 with a suppressed barrel. I asked him if it was hard to get with the can, he said that there were no laws regulating suppressors, just strict laws about guns in general. He paid many thousands of dollars a year to keep a handful of rifles and reloading gear. Also, he has to number his arrows. If you bowhunt there, and you have a non-fatal hit, and your arrow is found later, you will be prosecuted.
 
I am English and I live in Washington State. I have an AR-15 223 and a CZ 22 and I am going to get a 9mm CZ p-01 next week. I was an officer in a gun club for 14 years in England. I bought the AR15 and bought a gun club membership in the gun shop here and was given a key. I went up there on my own and figured out how the AR15 worked by trial and error and managed not to shoot my head off - just. I am still overawed at how easy it all was - I simply cannot believe the fantastic priveledge. At the same time I think about the total nutcases who can just go and get guns so easily so long as they havent been judged crazy or were clever enough not to have convictions. Some of the most dangerous people are very intelligent and have no convictions and have good jobs etc

To get ammo on behalf of the club in England, I had to have all sorts of authorisations - here I go into Walmart with a trolley. In the UK, to get my firearms certificate, the police interviewed me at home and went down the street asking the neighbours about me. I did 6 months probation as a gun club member, got references and then eventually I got a permit for a single shot 22. It was a very very long careful process. Now it's even harder and expensive too with alterations to your house and special direct alarms etc

So although US laws are great for me and I am dizzy with the possibilities, I do worry about how easy it all is. I wont be a citizen until next year so what I think doesnt matter for now. I am in favour of easy gun laws but only when people are more carefully checked. I know that here, that has conotations of tyrants etc, but that is more to do with culture and history, and I reckon extra checking of people and required gun cabinets etc , in exchange for a reinforcement and guarantee of gun rights at the Federal level and pre empting State laws, would satify me when the day arrives that it's any of my business

I think many gun owners would agree to 'give and take' as long as the government had lots of 'give' and not much 'take'

I want to be able to move to other States etc without being restricted - so there are lots of these situations where government legislation to help gun owners across States could be got in exchange for some sensible (not open ended) safeguards

Example: I wouldnt be too annoyed about being required to do a gun handling course and have a locked steel gun cabinet in exchange for the ability to take my gun to any State and sell it into any State etc etc

Gun shops - I live in a small town with 4 gun shops - it's great - I hang around in there a lot as I am retired. I will end up with more guns than them ! In the UK, only the big cities have shops which are really for a very small market.
In 5 years in the UK I was burgled 5 times, and two of those I was in bed. But there is no fear in the UK as there is here because a gun armed burglar is less common than a truck demolishing your house. You just put the light on and they run away. In Washington State there is very little burglary(lots of homeowner guns ?), but lots of gun deaths. The situations are just not comparable so it's very hard to make comparisons...

I reckon American gun owners would benefit from coming off the defensive and asking for 'liberalisation' of gun ownership across the States in exchange for some small responsible concessions (which would benefit gun owners actually), and keep the non owners on side at the same time
 
I would gladly give up hi-cap mags for cans/ silencers. I would gladly give up filling out 4473s for a nationally registered CCW too but that isnt likely to happen either.
 
Thing about politicians is they just want to look good - so if we can get concessions that make them look good, in exchange for stuff we don't care that much about anyway, then that's the way to go....

Actually I would like other shooters to have had at least basic training if they are going to stand 6 feet away from me with an AK47 - an hour's training is plenty. How long does it take to tell em not to point their gun at anyone or prop it cocked and loaded against their truck wheel. Even Cheney shot his buddy by accident. A look at some of the stuff on utube where they give a 7 year old a fully automatic large bore weapon and it spins him round in circles and everyone ducks, really makes me twitchy about safety so I would let the politicians make rules for that in exchange for.....
I haven't done enough reading to judge, but I get the impression that the gun debate is going in circles with each side repeating their own stuff and a stand off is happening
The NRA is doing a great job but it looks like a fight - a rearguard action - I reckon they should play the Politicians at their own game and make progress with more stealth - more bargaining -understanding the enemy as it were ...

I am wandering off subject ... gun shops in Europe ? I wouldn't invest in one....
 
Here's the thing allserene.

When you start putting 'minimum requirements' on fundamental human rights, the little guy always loses. We did it on voting rights in the early part of the 20th century, making voters pass literacy tests. Of course, what they really were was a scheme to exclude blacks from voting. We don't tell people they have to demonstrate an understanding of religion to practice it, a level of understanding of politics to protest it, or the ability to read a map to travel.

If we concede that a minimum amount of (the antis love this word) 'reasonable' training is required, it will be left to politicians to decide what 'reasonable' means.

The other trap we all fall into is, the fact that competency is relative. It's easy for us to say; "anyone crazier or stupider than me shouldn't be allowed to own a gun." But the problem is, there is always someone better than you who will be willing to allow 'reasonable' restrictions because he knows he is good enough that it won't affect him. Just the stupid people. I have discharge paperwork from the military that says I am an expert with a rifle and a pistol, but I know the truth is, these standards aren't that stringent. I would be doing all gun owners a disservice if I let the government say that 'competent' people, such as those with military and police training are ok to own a gun, but EVERYONE ELSE has to take a class. We have just given the police and the military a higher level of trust than the citizenry, which is EXACTLY what we are trying to avoid.
 
Very, very good points there MLJDECKARD. I only just got the 'right' to own any kind of gun, as Washington State had an 'alien' law which was really a ban on 'non-citizens' - of course black people were 'non-citizens' for a long time, so the undercurrents were there and it was a 'Jim Crow' law and the kind of abuse of law you are talking about
Luckily the NRA got the law changed in July this year so that 10 year unconditional green card holders like me are now treated the same as other humans permanently resident (14 th amendment). I will get U.S. Citizenship next year for a number of reasons but including a defensive move in case they reverse this law, and to support respectable, responsible non - citizens being treated with respect. Like most genuine legals, I am very 'anti' illegals and disgusted when they get driver's licenses etc. I went through a long period of hell to get my 'real' green card and I am livid at these people simply stealing the privileges I worked so hard to get

I like your point about 'anyone stupider than me...' It's like the definition of an alcoholic - 'someone I don't like who drinks as much as me'. But we agree with driver tests before they get a license, and exams for doctors, and so as long as we have eternal vigilance on basic safety training ( 1 hour or so), not being used as a 'discouragement' tool, then I think that would benefit all shooters who have to stand next to new shooters, and the new shooters themselves - and we could 'swap' it for a concession on some law we don't like. We shouldn't have to give em anything, but in politics we have to beat em at their own game. I agree that we need to be always suspicious of any moves by any government and always be ready to examine them and expose their 'real' intentions

I know the argument on basic inalienable rights and the constitution etc, but in the real world we are restricted on thousands of rights by laws including picking dog poop up etc. The local residents association send a letter round saying they will be watching everyone to see they are trimming their shrubs ! So our total freedoms were lost a long time ago and now the game is making sure that restrictions are minimal and are crafted to work for us

It's a good idea for Americans to keep an eye on Europe and the UK because they always lead on slavery bans/votes for women/public health systems/executions/extended vacation time/political correctness/gun control etc etc and the US follows eventually. The US therefore has an advantage in that we can evaluate what went right and what went wrong in these social developments (experiments), and can try to avoid what went wrong.
Self protection has not been a legal motive for gun ownership in the UK for a very long time and the incidence of non drug gang people being shot is absolutely miniscule. However, the gun laws went too far and bore down far too hard on people who were never going to be a problem, and Americans are right to be on their toes at making sure that doesn't happen here - either all at once or as 'creeping' legislation
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
Are there any good gun shops in Wilmington DE?
Replies
2
Views
470
Afy
A
M
  • Locked
Ever Get The Feeling Antis Want a Global Ban
Replies
22
Views
1K
bigalexe
B
M
  • Locked
Biggest, Best Gun Shop In US?
Replies
8
Views
1K
franconialocal
franconialocal
Panzerschwein
  • Locked
My Answer
2
Replies
46
Views
3K
Al Thompson
A
D
  • Locked
European Murder Rates Compared to the United States: Demographics vs Guns
2
Replies
27
Views
2K
Dean Weingarten
D
Back
Top