nonamehavei
Member
Wow, Mike, you should really think about getting out of the customer service industry. Really.
Gun show, decline in quality?
- Thread starter exbrit49
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"Wow, Mike, you should really think about getting out of the customer service industry. Really. "
I'll tell you one thing the customer is only right when he is right ! And you might ""really think"" about the thousands of hr's spent dealing with thousands of different personality's... Spend 5-10 grand a yr to put nice items on your table then some low life tell's you have junk but he can not affort the $150 Buckmaster he wants to buy on your table...you'd be a bit jaundiced too!
By the way there is no customer service any more: Call Sears, call Verizon...you'll get someone in India, the Philippines or Mexico....
OH and by the way that astute buyer who laid 7 c-notes and walked away w/that NewHaven Winchester...this year is laid down more C-cnotes and bought a Customized 338Ruger...
I'll tell you one thing the customer is only right when he is right ! And you might ""really think"" about the thousands of hr's spent dealing with thousands of different personality's... Spend 5-10 grand a yr to put nice items on your table then some low life tell's you have junk but he can not affort the $150 Buckmaster he wants to buy on your table...you'd be a bit jaundiced too!
By the way there is no customer service any more: Call Sears, call Verizon...you'll get someone in India, the Philippines or Mexico....
OH and by the way that astute buyer who laid 7 c-notes and walked away w/that NewHaven Winchester...this year is laid down more C-cnotes and bought a Customized 338Ruger...
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A little defense of Mike is needed. If you have ever sat in a public warehouse type sale and dealt with retail customers...you'll understand what he is saying. You have a millon questions with little return. It gets old...FAST! The young 25-40 year old male that wants to beat up the business with little to no knowledge of what he is talking about is tiring. You wanna explode. I understand his frustration.
With that said...the publics perception of a gun show is to be able to get a firearm or accessory for a reduced price. Why not? There is no store front to support...no advertising....no huge personel costs. Just table fees and insurance if required and a small warehouse or storage unit. Depending on the product you sell, these costs can vary considerably. Many of these vendors do NOT have stores. They just travel the show circuit. Most of us older consumers are well aware of what the "Warehouse" type sales used to be. You could get fairly sizeable discounts attending these sales. It is maddening to go out to a show..pay $8 for parking, $8 to get in..to find prices that are higher than you can get in a retail store. The gun shows typically have the same generic stuff each and every time! AR parts...stupid t-shirts....ammo cans...cheap scopes...surplus clothing...cheap holsters and miracle knife sharpening devices...Glock parts guy and maybe a reloading manufacturer or component reseller. Lest I forget about the cheap stun guns as well. That's all you hear around a show is that 'zzaaapppp - zzaaapp!" The handguns that are sold are at full retail..or more are typically Glocks...and some of the cheapest crap guns that are known to man. No real quality guns..just mass produced..easy to get stuff..and displayed at a price that is waayy above what ANY gun store in the county would sell them for.
It's kind of like going to a Harley bike event. Once you've seen every doo rag, sterling silver jewelery, faux leather chaps and skull candles...you've pretty much seen every bike event in the nation. With the exception of Daytona and Sturgiss...they are all for beginners. Gun shows are the same. Junk!
So it's easy and understandable why Mike gets offended and grows tired of his customers. Mike should also realize that no one customer really cares how much time he invests in looking for his inventory. They want a good value..and if they can't get it..they will continue looking. No one really comes to a show just to waste time. They are looking for something they cannot live without. They spend too much money for parking, too much money to enter show..and too much for drinks and snacks. If the vendor doesn't have the money to invest in to inventory that is quality stuff...and the ability to sell at close margins..then get out of the business, cuz' with the advent of the internet..you as a business owner are going no where.
I too am tired of gun show vendors. I love guns..I love reloading...I love talking about guns....I hate gun shows. I want to love them..but there is nothing to look forward to when the show comes to town. THAT my friends is the VENDORS fault.
With that said...the publics perception of a gun show is to be able to get a firearm or accessory for a reduced price. Why not? There is no store front to support...no advertising....no huge personel costs. Just table fees and insurance if required and a small warehouse or storage unit. Depending on the product you sell, these costs can vary considerably. Many of these vendors do NOT have stores. They just travel the show circuit. Most of us older consumers are well aware of what the "Warehouse" type sales used to be. You could get fairly sizeable discounts attending these sales. It is maddening to go out to a show..pay $8 for parking, $8 to get in..to find prices that are higher than you can get in a retail store. The gun shows typically have the same generic stuff each and every time! AR parts...stupid t-shirts....ammo cans...cheap scopes...surplus clothing...cheap holsters and miracle knife sharpening devices...Glock parts guy and maybe a reloading manufacturer or component reseller. Lest I forget about the cheap stun guns as well. That's all you hear around a show is that 'zzaaapppp - zzaaapp!" The handguns that are sold are at full retail..or more are typically Glocks...and some of the cheapest crap guns that are known to man. No real quality guns..just mass produced..easy to get stuff..and displayed at a price that is waayy above what ANY gun store in the county would sell them for.
It's kind of like going to a Harley bike event. Once you've seen every doo rag, sterling silver jewelery, faux leather chaps and skull candles...you've pretty much seen every bike event in the nation. With the exception of Daytona and Sturgiss...they are all for beginners. Gun shows are the same. Junk!
So it's easy and understandable why Mike gets offended and grows tired of his customers. Mike should also realize that no one customer really cares how much time he invests in looking for his inventory. They want a good value..and if they can't get it..they will continue looking. No one really comes to a show just to waste time. They are looking for something they cannot live without. They spend too much money for parking, too much money to enter show..and too much for drinks and snacks. If the vendor doesn't have the money to invest in to inventory that is quality stuff...and the ability to sell at close margins..then get out of the business, cuz' with the advent of the internet..you as a business owner are going no where.
I too am tired of gun show vendors. I love guns..I love reloading...I love talking about guns....I hate gun shows. I want to love them..but there is nothing to look forward to when the show comes to town. THAT my friends is the VENDORS fault.
Bozwell
Member
Once nice thing about the shows is you often have a nice selection of guns to choose from that you can handle in person. If you're looking to examine the condition of a user gun, the grain of the wood on a new gun or something else that varies from gun to gun, this can be a nice thing. On the other hand, I see very little reason to purchase something like a NIB glock (where there's very little variation from the factory) at the oft-inflated prices that you'll find at gun shows. Online vendors such as Bud's or even gunbroker are simply too convenient for me to pay gun show prices on new firearms.
If you can find a deal then it's great, but more often I just find gun shows to be an opportunity to examine a lot of different firearms in person and rarely go into such shows expecting to make an actual purchase. Sounds like I may be the type of person who drives Mike a bit insane, haha, but at least I never call it junk and I'm careful not to scratch anything
If you can find a deal then it's great, but more often I just find gun shows to be an opportunity to examine a lot of different firearms in person and rarely go into such shows expecting to make an actual purchase. Sounds like I may be the type of person who drives Mike a bit insane, haha, but at least I never call it junk and I'm careful not to scratch anything
JohnBT
Member
"the publics perception of a gun show is to be able to get a firearm or accessory for a reduced price. Why not?"
Because they're called gun SHOWS and not gun SALES?
Seriously though, I went to the local show yesterday afternoon and was quite impressed with the variety and quality of guns still there. Usually it's the same old stuff and I've been going to shows since the '70s. Some of the vendors said they were slammed Saturday, but there were guns to sell and the prices weren't too bad. I don't need any more guns and didn't see any new Colt SAAs, P210s or Blaser sporting clays guns anyway. But Georgia Arms still had 3 500-round cans of .45 ACP left, so I bought two for $340. I figure the 2 ammo cans more than covered the sales tax.
All things considered it was much more fun than a trip to Wal-Mart. I bought some 130-grain FMJ .38 Special too, just for the heck of it.
And I met two of the folks from the new indoor range opening 3 miles from my house in early March. They had a booth, but they already have my deposit on a membership. I got a free pen. Is this a great country or what.
http://colonialshooting.com
They're converting a former furniture store into a public range and police training facility.
[The following image is over 2 MB, converted to link.]
http://www.colonialshooting.com/upload/images/DSC_0029_GREYROOF.jpg
Because they're called gun SHOWS and not gun SALES?
Seriously though, I went to the local show yesterday afternoon and was quite impressed with the variety and quality of guns still there. Usually it's the same old stuff and I've been going to shows since the '70s. Some of the vendors said they were slammed Saturday, but there were guns to sell and the prices weren't too bad. I don't need any more guns and didn't see any new Colt SAAs, P210s or Blaser sporting clays guns anyway. But Georgia Arms still had 3 500-round cans of .45 ACP left, so I bought two for $340. I figure the 2 ammo cans more than covered the sales tax.
All things considered it was much more fun than a trip to Wal-Mart. I bought some 130-grain FMJ .38 Special too, just for the heck of it.
And I met two of the folks from the new indoor range opening 3 miles from my house in early March. They had a booth, but they already have my deposit on a membership. I got a free pen. Is this a great country or what.
http://colonialshooting.com
They're converting a former furniture store into a public range and police training facility.
[The following image is over 2 MB, converted to link.]
http://www.colonialshooting.com/upload/images/DSC_0029_GREYROOF.jpg
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justice06rr
Member
I can totally agree. i've only been to 2 shows so far both in the same location and the crowds and quality of items are the same if not worse. if you can brave the chaos, overcrowdedness, unimpressive prices, then its not too bad.
you can get lucky and run into a private seller who wants to sell his long gun or 22lr rifle. In my case I was fortunate to sit down next to a guy selling a 22lr rifle for an excellent price. Other than that, everything else about the show sucked..s
you can get lucky and run into a private seller who wants to sell his long gun or 22lr rifle. In my case I was fortunate to sit down next to a guy selling a 22lr rifle for an excellent price. Other than that, everything else about the show sucked..s
kimbershot
Member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
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- 340
just moved from ct to sc last month. shows in the north were mostly in springfield ma.. the shows seemed to be a repeat of the same ole same ole--same shows, vendors, crap and high prices. had to pay to park, admission and if you wanted to eat something--a second mortgage would be appropriate.
i will be attending my first southern show next month--savannah, ga. according to the producer--they don't allow crap, knicknacks, tag sale junk etc. so--it will be a first--and i hope not a last visit--maybe i will find something neat?
i will be attending my first southern show next month--savannah, ga. according to the producer--they don't allow crap, knicknacks, tag sale junk etc. so--it will be a first--and i hope not a last visit--maybe i will find something neat?
Gun shows are like a lot of things - 95% crap. But it is the 5% you are looking for. The rest is just the visual equivalent of background noise. Last gunshow I went to was small, crowded (yeah, figure that one out) and didn't have much. I almost picked up a Colt Delta Elite, but it was missing any magazine and the guy wouldn't come down enough. I also saw a Savage 99 in just the configuration I wanted, but the seller and I were too far apart. So it goes.
Texas Gun Shows
I've always enjoyed Gun Shows here in San Antonio and Austin Texas. Over the last few years I've seen some changes, both good and bad. But, I have always viewed a Gun Show as being like a Flea Market. Sure, you'll see some of the same old crap time after time, but you will always find something new, or interesting. If you go often enough, you'll know who to deal with and who not to, it's all part of the game. I do enjoy the private sellers the most, but for parts and accessories you cannot beat a Gun Show.
I've always enjoyed Gun Shows here in San Antonio and Austin Texas. Over the last few years I've seen some changes, both good and bad. But, I have always viewed a Gun Show as being like a Flea Market. Sure, you'll see some of the same old crap time after time, but you will always find something new, or interesting. If you go often enough, you'll know who to deal with and who not to, it's all part of the game. I do enjoy the private sellers the most, but for parts and accessories you cannot beat a Gun Show.
When I opened this thread I hadn’t realized it was people like Mike that I don’t like to deal with, He seems to have categorized all buyers as ignorant, bad mannered and not smart enough to haggle.
Well Like I said in the original post the CCI gun show is populated by vendors like Mike Sr. The other show put on by the gun traders, is where I spend quite a bit of money. The sellers are more realistic in their expectations, and I can purchase most of my supplies and the occasional gun. Both vendor and customer conclude a mutually beneficial deal. That’s the way it should be.
In over 35 years of attending gun shows have I have never made an insulting offer to a vendor, the price offered is usually a fair price and in most cases we find that magic number.
I am sorry to see Mike’s bitter attitude, maybe he really did run in to some nasty potential buyers. If that’s case Mike, I extend my sympathies. We aren’t all like that.
Any way I have ruled out the one promoter’s shows and have found the one I will continue to attend. At the last one I did get some nice deals, and had some nice conversations and enjoyed myself. I will be attending another Show put on by the gun traders on January 22nd, Will post how it goes.
Not picking on Mike here, but the tone of his post is what I guess I was originally talking about
Roger
Well Like I said in the original post the CCI gun show is populated by vendors like Mike Sr. The other show put on by the gun traders, is where I spend quite a bit of money. The sellers are more realistic in their expectations, and I can purchase most of my supplies and the occasional gun. Both vendor and customer conclude a mutually beneficial deal. That’s the way it should be.
In over 35 years of attending gun shows have I have never made an insulting offer to a vendor, the price offered is usually a fair price and in most cases we find that magic number.
I am sorry to see Mike’s bitter attitude, maybe he really did run in to some nasty potential buyers. If that’s case Mike, I extend my sympathies. We aren’t all like that.
Any way I have ruled out the one promoter’s shows and have found the one I will continue to attend. At the last one I did get some nice deals, and had some nice conversations and enjoyed myself. I will be attending another Show put on by the gun traders on January 22nd, Will post how it goes.
Not picking on Mike here, but the tone of his post is what I guess I was originally talking about
Roger
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gyvel
Member
BATF could never have done as much damage to gun shows with their laws and regulations than the damage they did when they let the FFl dealers sell at shows.
wojownik
Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
- Messages
- 2,086
This is not a complaint ... just wistful for how things were some years ago /
It seems like - at least in my area - gun prices are up (and staying up), ammo prices still way up, admission prices are up, but the range of products seems down. A lot of the same-old, same-old from table to table, not a whole lot of diversity. One of the attractions of gun shows for me was the opportunity to see things that are usually not available at your LGS, and definitely not at your local sporting goods chain... Nowadays, it seems like the product range has gotten a bit "vanilla". The same Glocks and Springfields from table to table, for instance.
And the environment at the shows seems, well, a lot less fun. Sellers seem a lot less friendly. Also very crowded, not a lot of buying (that I could see, which could have something to do with the vendor's demeanor). Lots of pushing and shoving - like being on a NYC subway car at rush hour in from of some tables.
A few months ago, I went to a local show, and picked out a nice Sig I had been considering for a while. The vendor was less than collegial, to say the least. Here I am, credit card in hand, picked out the product I wanted, no fussing or silly questions. I didn't even flinch when he said he had to tack on another 3% for the credit card. But he lost me when he literally tossed a clipboard at me with the state and ATF forms (like a frisbee), rolled his eyes when I asked for a pen. Dude probably was having a pretty bad day or something, but I quietly put the pen down on the table and walked away. Maybe he had his fill of aisle bums and time wasters, as someone had not so gently put it earlier, but he took it out on a genuine (maybe not astute) but genuine buyer... And lost a sale, and any possibility of future business.
I miss the "golden age" of C&R pickings at gun shows from a few years back. Lots more to see and learn about, more friendly vendors, more polite customers. It feels like a century ago, not a decade...
It seems like - at least in my area - gun prices are up (and staying up), ammo prices still way up, admission prices are up, but the range of products seems down. A lot of the same-old, same-old from table to table, not a whole lot of diversity. One of the attractions of gun shows for me was the opportunity to see things that are usually not available at your LGS, and definitely not at your local sporting goods chain... Nowadays, it seems like the product range has gotten a bit "vanilla". The same Glocks and Springfields from table to table, for instance.
And the environment at the shows seems, well, a lot less fun. Sellers seem a lot less friendly. Also very crowded, not a lot of buying (that I could see, which could have something to do with the vendor's demeanor). Lots of pushing and shoving - like being on a NYC subway car at rush hour in from of some tables.
A few months ago, I went to a local show, and picked out a nice Sig I had been considering for a while. The vendor was less than collegial, to say the least. Here I am, credit card in hand, picked out the product I wanted, no fussing or silly questions. I didn't even flinch when he said he had to tack on another 3% for the credit card. But he lost me when he literally tossed a clipboard at me with the state and ATF forms (like a frisbee), rolled his eyes when I asked for a pen. Dude probably was having a pretty bad day or something, but I quietly put the pen down on the table and walked away. Maybe he had his fill of aisle bums and time wasters, as someone had not so gently put it earlier, but he took it out on a genuine (maybe not astute) but genuine buyer... And lost a sale, and any possibility of future business.
I miss the "golden age" of C&R pickings at gun shows from a few years back. Lots more to see and learn about, more friendly vendors, more polite customers. It feels like a century ago, not a decade...
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AirForceShooter
Member
Buy a gun at the show??? Nope
Cruise the parking lot. A lot of good stuff there.
Supplies?
Know your prices before you buy but sometimes it's fine.
Ammo?
That can be hit or miss.
But the people watching can be fun
AFS
Cruise the parking lot. A lot of good stuff there.
Supplies?
Know your prices before you buy but sometimes it's fine.
Ammo?
That can be hit or miss.
But the people watching can be fun
AFS
JohnBT
Member
I bought a package of Hawaiian-flavor beef jerky too. Not too bad, but it needs more pineapple.
About that 1000 rounds of Georgia Arms .45 I bought. Do you think I should count them?
About that 1000 rounds of Georgia Arms .45 I bought. Do you think I should count them?
Cosmoline
Member
Same up here in Alaska. I first went to one in the late 90's and it filled a stadium floorspace completely with dealer tables. It was huge and there were many private tables and dealers. Last summer's big one was maybe 1/3rd the size with half the floorspace of the same stadium and only about half of those selling firearms. Most of it was static militaria displays. Nobody had much in the way of bargains on firearms. I found some ammo deals, but that's about it.
It's becoming more of a gun-themed flea market. Not that I oppose flea markets, but the shows used to be a lot better. And when I came out of 2010's show with a wool blanket and some kitchen items I knew the great age of the gun show had come and gone.
On the plus side, you don't really need gun shows anymore. There are on-line swap sites where you can get what you want real fast without the headaches of a show.
It's becoming more of a gun-themed flea market. Not that I oppose flea markets, but the shows used to be a lot better. And when I came out of 2010's show with a wool blanket and some kitchen items I knew the great age of the gun show had come and gone.
On the plus side, you don't really need gun shows anymore. There are on-line swap sites where you can get what you want real fast without the headaches of a show.
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Deltaboy1984
Member
I have not gone back to the one in Fort Worth TX since I saw 6 Marlin 60's that have been ran over or left in a creek for a year for sell and the cheapest one was 125 and the nice on with a Weaver scope was 250. So I waited and my local shop got a rarely used one in and I paid $60 bucks!
JohnBT
Member
" Cash is King (Queen, and Jack!) at a Gun Show "
I don't disagree, but I'll tell you a secret. If they like you they'll take a personal check. I've been writing checks at guns shows for 20 years or more.
Georgia Arms takes all kinds of credit cards at their tables if you're hanging on to your cash.
I don't disagree, but I'll tell you a secret. If they like you they'll take a personal check. I've been writing checks at guns shows for 20 years or more.
Georgia Arms takes all kinds of credit cards at their tables if you're hanging on to your cash.
I like to go to the gun shows, at least to plunk down some cash for ammo. You can pretty much get a decent deal on that if you look around. Its kind of nice seeing a lot of the same people ( sometimes) and just sensing the anarchy in the air. Where else could you be this entertained people watching outside of Vegas. You have the Fudds dressed up like they are ready to go turkey hunting with the Mossy Oak Camo outfits, The 20 year old urban commandos with their urban camo pants and black wife beaters with prison tats, the disgruntled veterans with their P.O.W. caps and M-65 field jackets, The mountain men hanging around the reloading supplies, the hip-hop thugs picking up but never buying the chrome plated Desert Eagles, and the yuppie survivalist flagging everyone with the most expensive M-forgeries you can find (usually buying the cheapest mags to put in them). Couple all this with some overpriced beef jerky and it makes for an entertaining Sunday morning. I usually find a way to drop at least a hundred bucks there, it beats watching the slugs do laps in their cripple scooters at the local Costco waiting for the free samples to be done cooking.
Elkins45
Member
Do you think some of it is just that we're jaded? I remember the first gun show I ever attended: I still recall being totally blown away by the quantity of stuff that was offered and the almost endless variety. I slowly scrutinized every table and carefully looked at every gun.
Looking back I now realize that first show was actually a fairly small show with a somewhat limited selection. It's just that it was all new to me, and also that I didn't own very many guns either. Almost every gun was a potential item of interest, so I had to look at them all. Now if I see a table full of Glocks I just walk right by it because I already know I don't need another Glock.
I'm even more selective with rifles now because I can scan a rack full of bolt guns in seconds looking for just the ones where the bolt is facing the 'wrong' way. Back in the day I was more open to buying almost any gun I hadn't owned before. Now I'm much more limited (perhaps refined?) in my interests.
I don't know that the shows are worse--maybe I'm just better?
Looking back I now realize that first show was actually a fairly small show with a somewhat limited selection. It's just that it was all new to me, and also that I didn't own very many guns either. Almost every gun was a potential item of interest, so I had to look at them all. Now if I see a table full of Glocks I just walk right by it because I already know I don't need another Glock.
I'm even more selective with rifles now because I can scan a rack full of bolt guns in seconds looking for just the ones where the bolt is facing the 'wrong' way. Back in the day I was more open to buying almost any gun I hadn't owned before. Now I'm much more limited (perhaps refined?) in my interests.
I don't know that the shows are worse--maybe I'm just better?
Tygarys
Member
Or the bank/ATM limits you to a ridiculously low daily withdrawal amount...
This is likely why the "cash only" tables at our gun shows never seem to have the activity/sales of the ones that also take cards. Its very rare I find anything other than some ammo or a few magazines at a show, so withdrawing 600+ every time a show comes around is not worth it when I will most likely spend $50-$75.
Hoppes Love Potion
Member
I guess I'm lucky. The local gun shows have all those same problems and the same exact cast of characters, but we also have a large local gun shop that usually has among the best prices in the country. At the local shows, they pack up a lot of their inventory and price it maybe 10% lower and also entertain offers. So the same gun they had in the shop for $610 on Thursday you might be able to get for $525 at the show on Saturday.
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