Gun show, decline in quality?
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orionengnr
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Saturday the wife and I went to the Dallas Market Hall show, as I have been doing every chance I get for the last half dozen years. They only hold four shows per year, but IMHO it is the best show in the DFW area...and that's saying something (there are at least two gun shows per month in the area, and sometimes one every weekend).
Market Hall--two thousand tables. Ten bucks to get in, but if you care to donate a pint of blood at the mobile blood care bus, you get in free. I do that once in a while, as they are the same folks I donate blood with at work.
I picked up a few reloading components and 1000 Winchester LP primers for $28. Got to say "hi" to a number of the "regulars"...yeah, it's somewhat of a social event for me too.
I looked at some very nice 1911 wooden grips hand-made by a very talented gentleman who has just started making grips. A set of those is in my future.
I saw a very nice mid-70s 4" S&W M-57 that was worth every bit of the asking price, but I didn't have that kind of money on me. Good thing.
I saw a very nice blued 4" Ruger MkII Target with nice custom target grips. Looks as if it had been very minimally fired. Also easily worth the asking price, and I would have loved to add that one to my collection. Again, funds are the limiting factor. That and the fact I already have one.
I have no complaint about the quality of the gun shows around here. Wish I had the time and funds to attend more of them.
Market Hall--two thousand tables. Ten bucks to get in, but if you care to donate a pint of blood at the mobile blood care bus, you get in free. I do that once in a while, as they are the same folks I donate blood with at work.
I picked up a few reloading components and 1000 Winchester LP primers for $28. Got to say "hi" to a number of the "regulars"...yeah, it's somewhat of a social event for me too.
I looked at some very nice 1911 wooden grips hand-made by a very talented gentleman who has just started making grips. A set of those is in my future.
I saw a very nice mid-70s 4" S&W M-57 that was worth every bit of the asking price, but I didn't have that kind of money on me. Good thing.
I saw a very nice blued 4" Ruger MkII Target with nice custom target grips. Looks as if it had been very minimally fired. Also easily worth the asking price, and I would have loved to add that one to my collection. Again, funds are the limiting factor. That and the fact I already have one.
I have no complaint about the quality of the gun shows around here. Wish I had the time and funds to attend more of them.
gun addict
Member
buddy of mine just picked up a mismatched 1917 Luger with an original holster and 2 magazines at KC expo gunshow, i say THAT's a great deal!
I would say for the most part yes, as far as being able to go in and buy something new for a fair price, I do not expect dealer to sell at or below cost, but just because you knocked 30 bucks off MSRP does not make it a good deal. I am also tired of trying to take friends who are not gun enthusiast to shows to have a dealer try and tell them why a 129.99 Hi Point is a better home protection gun than a Smith & Wesson M&P.
I have tried to buy guns from people walking around with firearms shouldered, but they usually have just shot some black spray paint over their solid 24k gold gun. I didn't know that 91/30's were worth 250, I thought they made over 15 million of them and they could be bought for less than 100 dollars from several distributors.
Ammo is a joke for the most part, but only because we have done that to ourselves, we spend hours on the internet calculator in hand trying to figure out what ammo is cheapest with who's shipping. The guy selling ammo can't compete with Wal-Mart or who ever has the cheapest ammo online. The guy at the gun show buys 4-5 cases of one kind of ammo a year and hope the guy across the aisle is not selling it for .50 a box cheaper. Its also hard to compete with the big companies that buy ammo by the semi or train car load when all you buy is a few cases a year. Then people get pissed off when you only have 4 different kinds of .22 ammo and 3 different bullet weights for .38, .357, 9, 40, 44, and .45. Forget you have 4 grand tied up in ammo.
Then there is the guy is only going to try and get rid of the cheap gun he bought at the local pawn shop because it will not cycle or it jams, key holes etc... Its now somebody else's problem, but remember "It shoots great, never had any problems, had it for years..."
I have tried to buy guns from people walking around with firearms shouldered, but they usually have just shot some black spray paint over their solid 24k gold gun. I didn't know that 91/30's were worth 250, I thought they made over 15 million of them and they could be bought for less than 100 dollars from several distributors.
Ammo is a joke for the most part, but only because we have done that to ourselves, we spend hours on the internet calculator in hand trying to figure out what ammo is cheapest with who's shipping. The guy selling ammo can't compete with Wal-Mart or who ever has the cheapest ammo online. The guy at the gun show buys 4-5 cases of one kind of ammo a year and hope the guy across the aisle is not selling it for .50 a box cheaper. Its also hard to compete with the big companies that buy ammo by the semi or train car load when all you buy is a few cases a year. Then people get pissed off when you only have 4 different kinds of .22 ammo and 3 different bullet weights for .38, .357, 9, 40, 44, and .45. Forget you have 4 grand tied up in ammo.
Then there is the guy is only going to try and get rid of the cheap gun he bought at the local pawn shop because it will not cycle or it jams, key holes etc... Its now somebody else's problem, but remember "It shoots great, never had any problems, had it for years..."
vtbluegrass
Member
Gunshows in Roanoke and Salem VA have been getting bigger and better I think. There are usually 3 or 4 shows a year and they will be one of two that not as many vendors show up to. I went to the Roanoke gun show on new years; the line was in the parking lot and the place was packed. Just about every other person walking out the door was carry an armload of loot and the prices were on par with the current market and some good "show prices" were to be had for those who looked and had real green cash.
Went to the gun show in Medina, Ohio last Sunday. There are guns hows just about every week with the same promoter rotating the dealers in about a 250 square mile area, and there is the one in Medina from a different promoter, yet even this one has a lot of the same tables. That being said Medina is probably the best one in my opinion, it seems to have a lot more private dealers. My wife picked up a High Standard Field King for $350 it was a little fuzzy from dust and not being fired for probably 4 decades, but on the way home with a field strip and some CLP, we took it to the range and man does this thing shoot like butter compared to my Ruger Mk III. This is maybe the third time out of 50 trips that I found a great deal, but its fun to look.
Mike OTDP
Member
Here in Maryland, the big problem is that there's NO variety. If you want to buy a 1911, Sig, Glock, or M&P, you're in good shape. If you are interested in the exotics, forget it.
And I moved beyond the normal run of firearms decades ago.
The one great exception is the Baltimore Antique Arms Show. That one is worth it. If I had the money, I could easily spend $50K at that show.
And I moved beyond the normal run of firearms decades ago.
The one great exception is the Baltimore Antique Arms Show. That one is worth it. If I had the money, I could easily spend $50K at that show.
Tygarys
Member
This is one thing that has improved at guns shows in my area. When I started going to shows 10 years ago, the neo-nazis always had a table there. In the last few years the only nazi stuff you see is historic relics/C&R guns.
DammitBoy
Member
How many tables at that show?
If I remember correctly, the large historic arms show in Birmingham, Alabama is about 750 tables?
22-rimfire
Member
There are only a few shows that I am willing to pay to park.
Gun shows aren't what they used to be. Online sales are encouraging people to go to the auction sites. Forum listings also work and reduce the available guns that might show up at shows.
I have not been attending as many shows as I used to. I attended a couple a month on average at my peak. That has not reduced the number of firearms I have purchased by and large. But I almost always find something at a show that I am interested in at a price that is generally fair. I am trying to reduce the number of guns I buy to ones that I am going to shoot, not make the pile grow.
Gun shows aren't what they used to be. Online sales are encouraging people to go to the auction sites. Forum listings also work and reduce the available guns that might show up at shows.
I have not been attending as many shows as I used to. I attended a couple a month on average at my peak. That has not reduced the number of firearms I have purchased by and large. But I almost always find something at a show that I am interested in at a price that is generally fair. I am trying to reduce the number of guns I buy to ones that I am going to shoot, not make the pile grow.
mortablunt
Member
Something new: Thanks to my NRA membership, I finally got to look at a new guns catalog. Imagine $1600 for a Winchester 94! I think I'll just stick with the shows.
Another show - by the post originator
It’s been great to read all the responses to the initial posting. I do see a common theme throughout the replies, that is, that the older guys have good memories of gun shows and the wheeling and dealing that you could do, not that many years ago.
I have been to several more shows since the original post and today went to the Midwest Gun Traders show in Fort Wayne.
As usual I was able to get some really good deals on all the reloading supplies I wanted, and the atmosphere was very friendly and I spent a very enjoyable afternoon chatting to many of the Sellers.
Among some of the finds, 3 one pound cans of Winchester WST for $30, (Yep that was $10 A POUND!) Also got some .357 158 SWC, 250 for $20. Large Pistol Primers for $22/1000.
I saw a Lee Enfield MK 4 in very rough condition and the guy had it marked at $375. He admitted that he had had it in his inventory for a long while and asked me for an offer. I said that I knew what it was worth but I didn’t want to insult him with an offer that low. I own several Mk 4s in great condition and have never paid more than $125. We talked about it and he admitted that he had probably paid way too much for it and that it was a lot more than the figure I was talking about. He actually asked if I knew much about the Enfield’s and I said mmm so so! I started shooting them in the army cadets in the UK a million years ago. He asked why I would say the gun was in poor condition and I went over the rifle with him and we had a very pleasant conversation. No hard feelings on either side, I felt sorry that he had that much invested in it. Had the price been good I would have taken it.
So all in all I will continue to attend only the Midwest Gun Traders show here in Fort Wayne. $3 admission and no parking fee, but will NOT attend another CCI show, to expensive to get in and park ( $4 parking and $6 admission and no one deals.
In conclusion, Yes the deals are still out there and there is still some good camaraderie out there too. Go to the smaller shows where the sellers aren’t paying a fortune to sell at a Very Expensive venue, such as the Memorial Coliseum
Happy loading and shooting to all and thanks for all the responses and viewpoints offered
Roger
It’s been great to read all the responses to the initial posting. I do see a common theme throughout the replies, that is, that the older guys have good memories of gun shows and the wheeling and dealing that you could do, not that many years ago.
I have been to several more shows since the original post and today went to the Midwest Gun Traders show in Fort Wayne.
As usual I was able to get some really good deals on all the reloading supplies I wanted, and the atmosphere was very friendly and I spent a very enjoyable afternoon chatting to many of the Sellers.
Among some of the finds, 3 one pound cans of Winchester WST for $30, (Yep that was $10 A POUND!) Also got some .357 158 SWC, 250 for $20. Large Pistol Primers for $22/1000.
I saw a Lee Enfield MK 4 in very rough condition and the guy had it marked at $375. He admitted that he had had it in his inventory for a long while and asked me for an offer. I said that I knew what it was worth but I didn’t want to insult him with an offer that low. I own several Mk 4s in great condition and have never paid more than $125. We talked about it and he admitted that he had probably paid way too much for it and that it was a lot more than the figure I was talking about. He actually asked if I knew much about the Enfield’s and I said mmm so so! I started shooting them in the army cadets in the UK a million years ago. He asked why I would say the gun was in poor condition and I went over the rifle with him and we had a very pleasant conversation. No hard feelings on either side, I felt sorry that he had that much invested in it. Had the price been good I would have taken it.
So all in all I will continue to attend only the Midwest Gun Traders show here in Fort Wayne. $3 admission and no parking fee, but will NOT attend another CCI show, to expensive to get in and park ( $4 parking and $6 admission and no one deals.
In conclusion, Yes the deals are still out there and there is still some good camaraderie out there too. Go to the smaller shows where the sellers aren’t paying a fortune to sell at a Very Expensive venue, such as the Memorial Coliseum
Happy loading and shooting to all and thanks for all the responses and viewpoints offered
Roger
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chas3stix
Member
The quality of gun shows has been slipping as of late. The last one I went to had half of the tables selling jewelry and garage sale collectibles. Ten years ago the black rifle to conventional rifle ratio was about 50/50. Now you have to look really hard to find a conventional rifle...everything is tactical/para military stuff. Admission fees have gone up to $14.00 with $4.00 parking fees. My two cents worth.
Was at a gun show on Saturday.
No good deals.
Went with $1000.00 left with my $$$
Lot of overpriced low quality stuff and overpriced stuff that can be had elsewhere for same or better prices....
You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT...gun show quality HAS gone down.
No good deals.
Went with $1000.00 left with my $$$
Lot of overpriced low quality stuff and overpriced stuff that can be had elsewhere for same or better prices....
You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT...gun show quality HAS gone down.
Silent Bob
Member.
The gun shows in my neck of the woods have de-evolved into table after table of old curmedgeon kitchen table ffls crouching behind tables of beat-up old rusty lever action rifles and the occasional S&W revolver (and not a single intact sideplate, thumbpiece, or grip screw in the house!). Oh and you always have the table where some jacka-- keeps zapping a stun gun. I'd rather stay home and scrub the toilets.
rugerman07
Member
I haven't bought much of anything at recent gun shows everything is way over priced. There's also quite a bit of non-firearm related sellers hawking silver ware, china ware, coins and a lot of other junk you normally see at flea markets.
JohnBT
Member
I know how to improve all the rotten gun shows...
One of the big gun show promoters in Virginia is advertising for additional shows to buy.
www.cegunshows.com/Home/tabid/36/Default.aspx
"We are expanding our operations and interested in acquiring more shows, finders fees paid for usable buildings willing to purchase existing shows, please Contact us ! [email protected] "
One of the big gun show promoters in Virginia is advertising for additional shows to buy.
www.cegunshows.com/Home/tabid/36/Default.aspx
"We are expanding our operations and interested in acquiring more shows, finders fees paid for usable buildings willing to purchase existing shows, please Contact us ! [email protected] "
Went to the St. Louis Weapons Collector show this weekend, and again it was too small a venue for the amount of tables and people. And way too hot and stuffy; no air at all. And again, poorly lit. I just love trying to read the fine print on the side of a firearm in the half-lit halls of most gun shows. I need to start carrying a small flashlight with me to some of them.
I spied an H&K P30, but at first thought it was a Walther P99/PPQ. Made a comment to that effect to the knuclehead (not the dealer, a table flunky) at the table, and he thought I was nuts to think I could possibly mistake it for a Walther.
Walther P99
Walther PPQ
H&K P30
Yeah, buddy, those guns look absolutely nothing alike.
I spied an H&K P30, but at first thought it was a Walther P99/PPQ. Made a comment to that effect to the knuclehead (not the dealer, a table flunky) at the table, and he thought I was nuts to think I could possibly mistake it for a Walther.
Walther P99
Walther PPQ
H&K P30
Yeah, buddy, those guns look absolutely nothing alike. The-Reaver
Member
Was strolling past a vendor in Orlando last year. Guy was talking to him about his 440 tin of 7.62x54 & it went a little something like this.
Customer; Excuse me sir, how much are you asking for your 440 tin?
Vendor; $120
Customer; $120! I can get that online for $80...
Vendor; Then get it online.
Granted I know it's their product and it is a " Free Market " but why be a D bag about it?
I didn't even bother looking at that table after that. What a waste.
I walked past that table
Customer; Excuse me sir, how much are you asking for your 440 tin?
Vendor; $120
Customer; $120! I can get that online for $80...
Vendor; Then get it online.
Granted I know it's their product and it is a " Free Market " but why be a D bag about it?
I didn't even bother looking at that table after that. What a waste.
I walked past that table
JohnBT
Member
"I can get that online for $80..."
With free shipping or is that going to run another $20 a case? The man had the ammo right there. He'd ordered it, paid for it, waited for it to arrive, hauled it to the show and sat there waiting all day only to hear one person after another complain "I can get it for $80". Well why hadn't they gotten it for $80? Too lazy or too cheap I suppose. No wonder he snapped back at one more dumb comment.
The guy worked and paid to get the ammo on his table. He's not working for nothing. And he paid a fee for the table, too.
John
With free shipping or is that going to run another $20 a case? The man had the ammo right there. He'd ordered it, paid for it, waited for it to arrive, hauled it to the show and sat there waiting all day only to hear one person after another complain "I can get it for $80". Well why hadn't they gotten it for $80? Too lazy or too cheap I suppose. No wonder he snapped back at one more dumb comment.
The guy worked and paid to get the ammo on his table. He's not working for nothing. And he paid a fee for the table, too.
John
I guess I'm lucky to live near a great show location (Oaks, PA). Their last show was really nice, with lots of vendors (guns not socks) selling a wide variety of items. The aisle's are well spaced so as not to jam everybody trying to check out displays. On the flip side, having room to look at the displays has caused my wallet to decline in its contents.
This was the same case for me. The Oaks show was great with a ton of variety.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
AirForceShooter
Member
"I can get that online for $80..."
With free shipping or is that going to run another $20 a case? The man had the ammo right there. He'd ordered it, paid for it, waited for it to arrive, hauled it to the show and sat there waiting all day only to hear one person after another complain "I can get it for $80". Well why hadn't they gotten it for $80? Too lazy or too cheap I suppose. No wonder he snapped back at one more dumb comment.
The guy worked and paid to get the ammo on his table. He's not working for nothing. And he paid a fee for the table, too.
John
Then he has to consider if selling at shows is worth his time.
His business may not be viable.
AFS
With free shipping or is that going to run another $20 a case? The man had the ammo right there. He'd ordered it, paid for it, waited for it to arrive, hauled it to the show and sat there waiting all day only to hear one person after another complain "I can get it for $80". Well why hadn't they gotten it for $80? Too lazy or too cheap I suppose. No wonder he snapped back at one more dumb comment.
The guy worked and paid to get the ammo on his table. He's not working for nothing. And he paid a fee for the table, too.
John
Then he has to consider if selling at shows is worth his time.
His business may not be viable.
AFS
Gun shows here in Ft Pierce FL are great. I bought several guns and ammo amoung other supplies in the last 3 years of living on the Treasure Coast.
i had given up on them after 15 years of crap in Broward and Palm Beach, getting progressivelly worse. But here they are a breath of fresh air. "Shoot straight" has incredible prices, selling the new sig 290 with laser for $550.00, msrp of 750+. Ammo for 223, at 8 bucks a 20 round box of 55 grain PMC and 13 dollars for 62 grain Rem. And 357 taurus revolvers new stainless at $259.00. Also a lcp for $259.00. Prices less that used guns on gun trader. I picked up a mil spec, AR, TWSC, for $800.00. a Florida company, Couldn't be happier with the shows of late. Serpa holsters sold out at 35 a pop. Not the norm, the show in my town "Vero" sucked by comparison. MY pal picked up a laser rangefider and a good quality scope at both shows.One at each. So it all depends on where you shop and what you can do in terms of negotiate.
i seldom fall in love with something, that's the tick. If there are 3 or 4 models that you would carry or are acceptable to you like a Glock, M&P, XD, Ruger, you will be able to easily find something at a good price. You can't always find exactlly what you had your heart set on, at a deep discount. But if you are willing to bend a little, you can make out pretty well.
There are times when I want a specific gun and it may take 6 months until I get it at the right price, but like cars, there is always a new model coming out that you haven't seen yet. And picking up a great discounted weapon, can get you closer to what you want if you are a good horse trader. i have turned a $400 dollar Glock into a 1200 dollar 45, on more than one occasion, it may take 2 or 3 trades to do it buy if you aren't in a big hurry you can get it done.
Guns are like women, you may not get her that night, but there are going to be other nights when she's not so popular. Guys buy guns on impulse, "new shooters" then they get home and find out they don't like it or can't break it down, and get embarrased so they sell it, and buy a simple gun. Cars are similar, many an old geeser went out and bought a 911, and after a week, sold it at a 15 thousand dollar loss. They can't drive it, can't bend down to get in,and their wife won't get in the darn thing because she can't talk and put on her makeup at the same time. It's a wonderful world. take advantage of the wealthy mans fantasy, of being James Bond, when he's more like Gomer Pile.
i had given up on them after 15 years of crap in Broward and Palm Beach, getting progressivelly worse. But here they are a breath of fresh air. "Shoot straight" has incredible prices, selling the new sig 290 with laser for $550.00, msrp of 750+. Ammo for 223, at 8 bucks a 20 round box of 55 grain PMC and 13 dollars for 62 grain Rem. And 357 taurus revolvers new stainless at $259.00. Also a lcp for $259.00. Prices less that used guns on gun trader. I picked up a mil spec, AR, TWSC, for $800.00. a Florida company, Couldn't be happier with the shows of late. Serpa holsters sold out at 35 a pop. Not the norm, the show in my town "Vero" sucked by comparison. MY pal picked up a laser rangefider and a good quality scope at both shows.One at each. So it all depends on where you shop and what you can do in terms of negotiate.
i seldom fall in love with something, that's the tick. If there are 3 or 4 models that you would carry or are acceptable to you like a Glock, M&P, XD, Ruger, you will be able to easily find something at a good price. You can't always find exactlly what you had your heart set on, at a deep discount. But if you are willing to bend a little, you can make out pretty well.
There are times when I want a specific gun and it may take 6 months until I get it at the right price, but like cars, there is always a new model coming out that you haven't seen yet. And picking up a great discounted weapon, can get you closer to what you want if you are a good horse trader. i have turned a $400 dollar Glock into a 1200 dollar 45, on more than one occasion, it may take 2 or 3 trades to do it buy if you aren't in a big hurry you can get it done.
Guns are like women, you may not get her that night, but there are going to be other nights when she's not so popular. Guys buy guns on impulse, "new shooters" then they get home and find out they don't like it or can't break it down, and get embarrased so they sell it, and buy a simple gun. Cars are similar, many an old geeser went out and bought a 911, and after a week, sold it at a 15 thousand dollar loss. They can't drive it, can't bend down to get in,and their wife won't get in the darn thing because she can't talk and put on her makeup at the same time. It's a wonderful world. take advantage of the wealthy mans fantasy, of being James Bond, when he's more like Gomer Pile.
Coal Dragger
member
Gun shows have virtually gotten to the point of being pointless, unless you need a reminder of why certain members of society shouldn't be allowed to: breed, operate Dremel tools, operate belt sanders, or own any vintage firearms.
Ignition Override
Member
Coal Dragger:
What is really amusing is how people bubbafied classic guns and then lose interest (or need cash) hoping that a stranger will want to buy it. Most of our gun show Enfields have suffered such a fate. Another guy at Southaven MS super-heated either an Enfield or Mauser bolt, in order to bend it down even further, to better assist using a scope. We wanted to break out laughing at that bozo. It was both funny and sad.
With wood, it might be replaced, but with permanent alterations to metal, they've already reduced the value a major fraction, if not by half or more.
There were situations where some guns had really torn up wood, beyond salvage, and needed help-but not with so many others....
Never mind the lack of a appeal for a gun which has lost most of its military character. Less than two years ago at Whittaker's Guns in nw KY, near Evansville, the store had a vintage M-1 Carbine which some classic nit wit had painted green.
What is really amusing is how people bubbafied classic guns and then lose interest (or need cash) hoping that a stranger will want to buy it. Most of our gun show Enfields have suffered such a fate. Another guy at Southaven MS super-heated either an Enfield or Mauser bolt, in order to bend it down even further, to better assist using a scope. We wanted to break out laughing at that bozo.
It was both funny and sad.With wood, it might be replaced, but with permanent alterations to metal, they've already reduced the value a major fraction, if not by half or more.
There were situations where some guns had really torn up wood, beyond salvage, and needed help-but not with so many others....
Never mind the lack of a appeal for a gun which has lost most of its military character. Less than two years ago at Whittaker's Guns in nw KY, near Evansville, the store had a vintage M-1 Carbine which some classic nit wit had painted green.
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