gunbroker deal went sour... ideas?

[Lupinus]

As someone who works for a small business, asking someone to pay for all the shipping back and forth and the transfer fee ($60.00?!?!?!) is a bit excessive.

He could have had what he wanted, but now he's just going to waste a bunch of time and money over $20 worth of shipping.

If it is a matter of this much money? You bet your keester I would demand my gas money back too along with the right product or a refund of that too.

If a guy screws up it is their responsibility to make it right, and that involves covering all expensis to do so includding shipping and the second transfer fee. Now that would stay within reason, you shouldn't expect next day air or an overpriced transfer fee (sorry, sixty bucks is way to much), but a reasonable transfer fee and shipping both ways they should be taking care of.

 

[EVIL5LITER]

Tell him to stop payment on his CC and keep the rifle. That will get the gun shops attention.

That's fraud and will get you in trouble with the law at best, and at worst will get you dead. You don't mess with a person's money.

 

[SecuritySixShooter]

If you like amusment that is the only gunshop with a shooting range located near me...been there many times

 

[itgoesboom]

Thats pretty crappy on the part of the gunshop, and just shows their lack of customer support.

The buyer should stop payment on the card, and have them issue a call tag to pick up the rife. Contacting his states attorney general, Weatherby, and gunbroker as well might be a good idea.

One thing is for sure though, I won't be purchasing anything through that shop, and I sent them a quick email on their site telling them that.

Just wanted to express my disappointment at how your company has handled the auction # 41432244 over at Gunbroker. I have read the purchasers comments, as well as yours on the feedback page, and I am very sad to see the way that you treated a customer of yours.

I am surprised, since you seem to have such high feedback from other customers of yours on Gunbroker. I tried to see it from your perspective, but after reading the way you termed the negative feedback against the purchaser while at the same time admitting fault (on your response to purchasers feedback), as well as your description of the rifle, I can honestly say I see you in the wrong.

I have never discussed anything with the purchaser either on line or offline, but I will make sure to keep his experience in mind when I purchase my next firearm.

I am sorry to say that your shop will not be a shop that I purchase anything through. While I am sorry to have to say that so definitively, I am happy that I found this out in advance prior to bidding on any items of yours.

Sincerely,

XXXXX X. XXXXXXX

 

[mrmeval]

Actually it's not fraud if he's made an effort to allow the return of the product.

That's fraud and will get you in trouble with the law at best, and at worst will get you dead. You don't mess with a person's money.

 

[nyresq]

It seems to me that Buds is a bunch of scumbags that will never get my business. The bait and switch is a serious case of fraud. I say stop the CC charge and hold onto the gun untill they send a pick up tag prepaid to get the gun back.

but one thing bothers me and it may be because I don't live in kaleefor-nee-uh and don't know about the transfers there.....

Did you ever open the box and look at the rifle before you filled out all the paperwork?
If you saw the rifle was wrong and still filled out the paperwork for the tranfer, then the tranfer cost is your problem.

I know if I buy a gun and have it shipped to my ffl, I first open the box and strip it down to make sure there is nothing busted or not in sync with the seller description. If I find a problem, then I call the seller before I have it tranferred to my name, and work out any details before I sign my name and walk out the shop with the gun.

 

[nyresq]

Actually it's not fraud if he's made an effort to allow the return of the product.

it is if he doesn't offer a full refund of all monies paid for the product... that includes any shipping.

that means buds offers a full refund of the purchase price, the shipping to and sends a prepaid return ticket to get it back.
I don't think the transfer cost would be included though as the buyer could have stopped the transaction before that expense took place when he saw the rifle was wrong.

its called a bait and switch. you buy a premium product for a great price and then you get a lower cost model. its illegal in most states, and definatly if it involved interstate commerce. there may even be fraud charges seperate from that because the transaction was over the internet. internet fraud is a very big deal right now with special task forces with FBI and USSS and the postal inspectors going after people defrauding people through EBAY and sites like that.

 

[jerkface11]

Maybe someone should send that gunshop a copy of this link. http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=86336&highlight=bearcoat

 

[jtward01]

Back in 2001 I bought a Colt Cowboy from Tim Harris at Elliot's Small Arms (3008 Jefferson Highway, Jefferson, LA 70121 504-833-3140) and they shipped me a gun they'd just received from the distributor. Unfortunately, the employee Tim delegated to handle my order didn't check the gun before shipping and when I opened the box the gun was covered with a light speckling of rust. I used some gun oil and fine steel wool to remove the rust but it had permanently damaged the finish. I called Tim and he not only paid to have the gun shipped back to him and to have another gun shipped to my FFL holder, he also paid for the second transfer and background check fees.

I've since bought several more guns from Tim and the service has always been first rate.

 

[kentucky_smith]

In Bud's defense, I've bought probably a dozen guns from them. Never a problem and always a much better deal than anyone around. Course, I'm an hour away and have always bought in person, but you guys need to lay off a little.

One bad deal does not a bad gunstore make.

 

[Rinspeed]

This story sure gives me a slow burn...

I can only cite the example of my local gunshop - a small-time dealer in a smallish city, who doesn't make much at all (if he clears a few hundred profit in a month, after all expenses, he considers he's doing well). He made a mistake on one transaction, and ordered a gun that was not what his customer wanted. When it arrived, his customer pointed out the error. Instead of whining and moaning, he immediately admitted his error, ordered the right gun, and sold it to the customer at his cost - no profit - as compensation for the added delay. He was also stuck with the gun he originally ordered, as the wholesaler had them on "special" and wouldn't take it back. It took him eight months to sell the gun, at a loss. So, his error cost him probably three or four months profit - but he never complained, simply put his mistake right, and carried on. That's why I go back to him for repeat business, and have no problem paying him a higher price than I could get at Wal-Mart. That sort of integrity deserves support!

That's a very good story and brings up a point people loose sight of. The money to make this right isn't coming out of the dealers pocket it's coming from the profit of the sale. There is a difference.

 

[bruss01]

It seems to me that Buds is a bunch of scumbags that will never get my business. The bait and switch is a serious case of fraud. I say stop the CC charge and hold onto the gun untill they send a pick up tag prepaid to get the gun back.

Did you ever open the box and look at the rifle before you filled out all the paperwork?
If you saw the rifle was wrong and still filled out the paperwork for the tranfer, then the tranfer cost is your problem.

I have ordered from Bud's several times and usually with good results. I certainly commend them on keeping their prices competitive. However, we recently ordered a Ruger Mark III target pistol (.22lr) and what arrived was a Ruger Blackhawk 44 magnum single-action. Hmm.... That says to me, maybe they're overworked, pressed for time, maybe have some inexperienced or "not as careful as they ought to be" help working there. This is not the kind of mistake that results from a "bait and switch", since the Blackhawk cost significantly more than the Mark III, so I don't question the honesty, just the attention to sending the right product. In fairness, this was ordered durring the post-Katrina, pre-Christmas period, probably a very busy season for them.

My FFL noticed the discrepancy right away, and if he hadn't the wife surely would have when she went to do the paperwork. It took some doing, but Bud's eventually agreed to pay return shipping and sent us the correct item. In this case they may have been motivated by the fact that we were in posession of a revolver worth substantially more than what we paid - but I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. They did make things right in our case. We made a point of being excruciatingly pleasant and accomodating when talking with them via phone, perhaps that makes a difference too.

In the case mentioned at the top of this post, I think someone at Bud's made an honest mistake and sent a similar rifle in error. However, I do believe the purchaser made a mistake in not checking the rifle before committing the paperwork. Never marry a bride without lifting the veil. Bud's should pay the shipping to return the wrong rifle and send the correct one, since that mistake was theirs. The purchaser should eat it for the paperwork costs, due to his failure to inspect prior to signing on the dotted line.

 

[-C4-]

In Bud's defense, I've bought probably a dozen guns from them. Never a problem and always a much better deal than anyone around. Course, I'm an hour away and have always bought in person, but you guys need to lay off a little.

One bad deal does not a bad gunstore make.

It isn't just the bad deal, it is more the way they handled it. I personally use a guy MD to do all my transfers and buy everything from reputable people online. Since the guy here has had such good service for me in the past I continue to use him and have even started to throw more gunsmithing work his way. IMHO service is what gets business. Just my opinion though.

-C4-

 

[5.56]

You can build a 1,000 great bridges in your life. But get caught sucking a weiner and you will branded a weiner lover the rest of your life. I have dealt with many companies over the yrs. Many have made errors in sending me the wrong product. None have refused to send a call tag for the item and sent me the correct item and that includes firearms I also have an FFL. If I had not gotten that service from them I would have told the world and they would have never got a nickles worth of business again.
I would talk to the FFL holder and explain that the wrong rifle was sent, meaning the folks who did the transfer. They very well may agree to allow you to use thier shop to have the rilfe sent back and not charge you for the transfer of the correct rifle when it comes in since they were paid already. I know as an FFL holder I would not double charge a person for that kind of an error. I would have thought you would have checked the rifle prior to signing for at at the transfer point. That would have been the best time to stop the transfer and correct the problem.
Failure to at least replace the product with the correct product would lead to legal actions. Did the firearm cross statelines to get to you? If the dealer is refusing to work with you at all and has charged you for a product that he did not send you and sent you a less valued product. I would contact the auction folks as well as BATF and it would be interesting to see how the FBI views interstate fraud since the item involved crossed state lines as well. I would NOT have a P.ssing match on the phone with the dealer in question. I do have to agree with the folks that you should have not made the transfer when you saw it was the incorrect item.
It kinda makes it look like you knew it was wrong and accepted it anyhow. From the sellors point of view, "I made a mistake and shipped the wrong rifle, why did you accept it and pay a $60 transfer fee? All you needed to do was to tell them it was wrong and stopped the transfer and contacted me and we could have got it straightened out."
Again I would have talked to the transferring dealer about what happened and see if they would help you in regards to the transfer fee when the correct rifle gets there. I am wondering if tempers flaring and words heated have caused part of this problem?

5.56

 

[Snagglepuss]

I keep Bud's on my list of shops to check when I am ready to buy. They have now been deleted. I understand mistakes happen but they should always be corrected honestly. Buds did not do this. Actually I am amazed that any online shop would act like this. I do feel the transfer fee is the buyers loss however. As mentioned before, why accept the transfer if it was not the gun you ordered.

Bud's

 

[Gatman]

Another thing you got to look at is the perspective of the FFL doing the transfer. The guy by my house runs it out of his garage. Should he be inconvenienced with having to wait for a FedEx guy and whatnot? Why should he have to hold on to a rifle that is not his? I know he is making his money on the transfer fee but the point is that the buyer may not want to have inconvenienced the FFL he was dealing with. I also think that the FFL should allow him to do his next transfer at a reduced rate. The seller screwed up and should eat all of the shipping charges. The buyer should have inspected his gun and should help the FFL he is transfering through a little bit.

 

[Soybomb]

Their fault, they owe you a total refund on shipping. If you got it and you just didn't like it, then you pay shipping. You didn't get what you ordered so they pay shipping. The transfer fee I'm not sure about.

It took some doing, but Bud's eventually agreed to pay return shipping and sent us the correct item.

Thats kind of troubling. I've ordered from buds a few times because of their low prices, even if their shipping is a little slow. For you to have to argue or debate anything for them to pay return shipping back on their mistake is really poor CS. I'd probably have wound up calling mastercard and letting them send a ups sticker if they wanted their gun back.

This thread has made me reconsider ordering from buds, and I was actually looking there this morning at something.

 

[Double Maduro]

I haven't read all the posts so if this is a repeat, tough.

When I order guns sent to my dealer, I always inspect them before I accept them. If there is a problem, I don't accept them and cancel the deal.

DM

 

[Hawk]

One bad deal does not a bad gunstore make.

I'd tend to agree but get a load of this.

6% negative feedback in 30 days is pretty spectacular (at the time of this posting). It's not consistent with history. Perhaps it's a temporary recent issue of some sort.

Regardless, I'll stay well clear of anyone suddenly running 6%, even given that 25% of the current negs is the one is this thread.

 

[kentucky_smith]

I'd tend to agree but get a load of this.

6% negative feedback in 30 days is pretty spectacular (at the time of this posting). It's not consistent with history. Perhaps it's a temporary recent issue of some sort.

Regardless, I'll stay well clear of anyone suddenly running 6%, even given that 25% of the current negs is the one is this thread.

Go back and read the negatives. Looks like 2 of those were unfounded.

Example:

D: Couldnt get weapon serial number to give to my FFL holder, so he wouldnt release license to purchase...I am buying from someone else.
Response: He did not pay us or provide an FFL. The phone number he provided is invalid. He did not contact us before he bid. We do not provide a serial number if you do not pay us or provide a valid FFL.

Here's there response on the item in question. I'm beginning not to believe him either.

D: Rifle advertised having muzzlebrake & didn't. Seller admitted error,wanted 20% restock fee.I tried to settle without loss $$$-they refused. Said they'd change pos feedback to neg if I complained.
Response: We offered full refund with no restocking fee even though gun is used now; we offered to pay return shipping, but he refused. Auction says to verify description against model number.
Follow-up: Gun receipt signed for, never used.Be VERY careful - seller admits ads not accurate.Uses neg feedback as threat

And here's one of the guy's posts on the 1st link of this thread

Thanks for the support and I will definately let everyone know how things work out. I don't mind the recoil, I just wanted to put a $19.00 Tasco on it and figured the brake would keep the scope in one piece!

Just kidding. Am I overestimating the recoil from this thing? It seems to weigh about 8lbs. I routinely fire an AR in 338 Lapua Mag with brake and have to say, it's much heavier and I think the thing would have a helluva wallop without it. I'm 6'4" but only about 190 - right handed & left eyed so I shoot off my not so sturdy left shoulder. I don't think I'm recoil shy, 300 H & H is no problem nor 375 H & H Encore or 375 JDJ Contender handgun

And this:

They've offered me a credit back of the cost of brake up to $200.00. Seems about right.

 

[Coltdriver]

First of all I would suspend the entire credit card payment.

Then I would determine the cost to have the accubrake installed.

Then I would authorize my credit card company to allow the amount of the purchase less the cost of adding an accubrake. Barring a response from the gunshop saying they would replace the rifle with a new one with the accubrake and absorb ALL of the additional shipping and tranfer fees this is a prudent course.

The gun shop screwed up. Their screw up should not cost me a dime. A credit card is a great way to protect yourself.

Then I would post the whole sordid story in my rating on gun broker.

 

[Hawk]

Kentucky Smith makes some good observations.

But receiving FFL's often have quirks. I've asked for serial numbers before and during bidding before and never got one of these:

We do not provide a serial number if you do not pay us or provide a valid FFL.

Not necessarily bad, but IME rather odd. Why be difficult? Does he know something my sellers didn't?

 

[DeputyVaughn]

He should contact his credit card co. and let them deal with the seller about misrepresenting their product.

Scott

 

[LAK]

What brad said.

And it is my observation that businesses that bend over backwords to absorb all of the cost of mistakes ... make far fewer mistakes, are usually a pleasure to deal with, and go on to become very sucessful. It inspires great confidence, perhaps one of the the most important aspects of selling, and paramount in any business dealing online, mail order etc.
------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[PX15]

One good has come out of this thread..

I never thought about rejecting a ffl transfer on a firearm purchased on-line if it was somehow unacceptable when it arrived at my ffl dealers.

I generally deal with a local small sporting goods/gun shop who only charges a small transfer fee. (Generally $20). I wouldn't want him out of pocket in any situation, so now I would go ahead and give him the transfer fee, yet not fill out the paperwork and deal with the seller from that angle.

I always pay by U.S. Postal money order because someone told me I would have more legal recourse that way if for example my money was cashed, but the firearm was never shipped, or was misrepresented. Is that a fact?

I've had two dealings online thru GunsAmerica this past year (Colt DS & S&W Centennial model 40) and both sellers (BT/H. Hamilton) were a pleasure to deal with.

What is considered the "best way" to pay for an on-line purchase anyway? It seems like a credit card gives you more recourse, but most sellers charge you a premium for paying that way because the credit card company charges them for the service.

As for the topic of this thread.

It boggles my mind that a seller can say they can't guarantee the item they are advertising and what shows up at your ffl dealer will be the same thing. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I can understand where a mistake can be made by shipping the wrong item, or the item sent isn't precisely what was advertised, but in that situation it would seem the seller would have the obligation to make the deal right.

I would never buy from someone who had such a policy, and I certainly WOULD leave negative feedback about the deal from the shores of California to the shores of the East Coast.

I think I need to take my zoloft.

Thanks.

JP