guns in church

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As pastor, I concealed carry in church. Must protect the flock. What most people don't understand is that people who legally carry guns do not carry them to take the life of others, they carry them to lay down their lives to protect the ones they love. "Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends". Just this preachers humble opinion....
 
Just what in the freaking world are you implying?
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Most people believe what they want to believe and then cut and stitch the Bible to make it agree with them. You found one verse out of several thousand that says what you want to hear, so what you want to believe is “the Gospel truth”. It is hypocritical to believe you will go to Heaven when you die and be willing to kill someone to keep from dying.

If I wanted to hear this bs, I would go sit in the choir. I wish the rest of you would leave it in the choir.
 


If I wanted to hear this bs, I would go sit in the choir. I wish the rest of you would leave it in the choir.
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You are being deliberately offensive. You have no idea what I believe or how I live what I believe and have overstepped to bound of civility. Very low road.


Tractates B'rachos (Blessings) pp 58a & 62b and Sanhedrin (law courts) pp 72a

"and the Torah says 'If someone comes to kill you, arise quickly and
kill him.'"
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The Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testament




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QUOTE: ". It is hypocritical to believe you will go to Heaven when you die and be willing to kill someone to keep from dying.

Feel Free to back this up from the Bible anytime

Blessed be the Lord my Rock, Who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle. Psalm 144 :1 NKJV

QUOTE: "If I wanted to hear this bs, I would go sit in the choir. I wish the rest of you would leave it in the choir."

Of course if you didn't want to hear the bs you could have stayed out of this thread.
 
Oh I just love this thread!

Sorry if I gave the impression that I was AGAINST Christians toting guns, I was just bringing up conversational points. Personally in my own little version of the world I like to dream about everyone is given a cheap revolver on their 18th birthday and at all times. And manly men still open carry a pair but instead of six-guns they're hi cap semi-autos. It's hard for one desperate man to rob a convenience store when he can't open the safe and the clerk is armed too.

Anyways I'm all for open carry in church too you can CC if you want but that's not as comfortable especially if it's hot and moist.
 
I have been carrying to church for the past 19 years, and I am the guy standing behind the pulpit.

But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. - 1 Timothy 5:8, NASB
 


And from Pope John Paul II Epistle The Gospel of Life:

"legitimate defence can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life, the common good of the family or of the State".44 Unfortunately it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose action brought it about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason.45...
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In Ecclesiastes 7:17, Solomon had good advice for everyone, but especially good advice for safe gun handling: "And be thou not foolish, lest thou die before thy time."

-Sans Authoritas
 
I carry constantly and am a preacher also. The only verse that has ever bothered me is "if you live by the sword you will die by the sword". Until I realized what "living by it" meant carrying bothered me. I am not a "pistolaro", bounty hunter, or hired killer/shooter. Therefore I am not "living by the sword". Being able to protect family and friends is totally different IMO. To be blunt--if folks don't like it they just don't have to be around me or me them. wc
 
What kind of moron would sit here and read a thread and then complain that he doesn't want to hear it?? DON"T READ IT THEN??!??!! We have to shut up to keep you from reading something???, That is the most ignorant thing I have heard other than your TOTAL lack of knowledge of the content of the Bible. You learn that by READING it, not sitting in the choir.

By the way, there is nothing hypocritical about trying to stay alive. Christ died for our sins and every part of the Bible tells us to live a long and fruitful life of service to each other. No where does it say we should meekly be the victims of evil people so we can go to heaven when they kill us. Don't be so quick to stick your nose into something you know nothing about. You have to come to this thread by CHOICE. We didnt' bring it to YOU.

I hope God blesses you guys who are honestly engaged in this conversation. Forgive for getting burned up over the ignorance of a few.
 
After what happened at New Life Church in Colo-Springs last year, I think its very prudent to carry in church, If I was a regular church go-er, I would. Criminals don't have boundaries, church's are targets, just like schools, its a sad reality, but criminals don't care. What if Jeanne Assam had not been in that church that day? Then we would have had 50-100 dead or wounded people, as the sanctuary was full of people. To say that church's are somehow immune to a criminal attack, is extremely naive and dangerous.
 
WOW...I wasn't aware of how many preachers were on the High Road!!! Glad to see some on here. Not to be pointing finger...but back to Jon in WV comment to Macadore...truth of the matter is, that is the MINDSET OF AMERICA...better to appease 1 and upset 1,000,000 than to upset 1 and appease 1,000,000...look at America and how many people it takes to "take down "CHRISTIAN" things"...sorry moderators back on target...

I agree in somewhat with the idea of FIVEBILLIONACRES...it would be easier if everyone OC'd, however it would more than likely be a deterrent not only to crime but also to visitors coming to the church...unless....you issued guns to each adult as they entered....humm....nevermind on that idea...could see a lot of committees and sub-committees trying to decide what kind of gun...CC is just that Concealed Carry...No one on this thread or any other thread is looking to carry for the reason of "killing someone"...it is more for last resort!

By the way, I am really enjoying the discussion, great dialog, some pointed at other things, but over all great!
 
Just read Green Latern's reply, My Fathers Church has been broken into 3x's already...and thanks to Browning Safe's, amazingly the last 2x's they were not able to get anything except upset. Sad to say there are those that target churches. Thankfully they broke in at night, when no one was there...regaurdless, they have been broken into!
 
I'm just warming up to the idea of carrying in church; about 6 months back, a lady saved a congregation w/ a Beretta 96 in her purse (!!!) when gunmen broke into service.

I think I might pack something smaller, possibly a BBQ-gun style, maybe something absurdly small, just to have something. The thought's still a little odd to me, though.
 
You are being deliberately offensive.
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I am offended by hypocrisy. I am offended by people who feel they have God in their pocket and that God tells them secrets that the rest of us can’t understand. I am offended by people who run around shoving their dogma down everyone else’s throats and then get offended when we don’t swallow.

QUOTE: ". It is hypocritical to believe you will go to Heaven when you die and be willing to kill someone to keep from dying.

Feel Free to back this up from the Bible anytime
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How about The Sermon on the Mount? Granted, you will have to read more than one sentence to get it.

What kind of moron would sit here and read a thread and then complain that he doesn't want to hear it?? DON"T READ IT THEN??!??!! We have to shut up to keep you from reading something???,
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You can’t respond with facts or logic so you call names.
That is the most ignorant thing I have heard other than your TOTAL lack of knowledge of the content of the Bible. You learn that by READING it, not sitting in the choir.
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Why do you assume I know less About the Bible than you do? Is anyone who disagrees with you a moron? Vanity of vanities. Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
 
It is hypocritical to believe you will go to Heaven when you die and be willing to kill someone to keep from dying.
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Wow, I'm thinking this post is sort of hypocritical and reveals a legalistic way of looking at the issue. Jesus died for my sins - I accepted Him as my Lord and Saviour - I'm headed for Heaven - regardless of whether or not I happen to kill someone who is trying to kill me......
 
QUOTE: "How about The Sermon on the Mount? Granted, you will have to read more than one sentence to get it."

How about Romans Chapter 14 ?

We could play dueling Scripture all night. The fact is that if you really feel that God isn't ok W/ you carrying in church , and you can find Scriptural precedent don't carry in church. I'm willing to respect that. As long as you are willing to respect the fact that Jean Assam absolutely believes that God put her in that church with a gun for such a time as this. I carry in church because I believe God wants me to. Doesn't make me a hero , doesn't make me a sheepdog. I'm just one more person who's been redeemed from the curse of the law being made a curse to me.
 
It boils down to this...there is NOTHING DOCTRINAL about do or do not CC in church. It is a standard! Too often people confuse their Convictions and Standards...the best definition for the two...Conviction - something you are willing to die for (i.e. God is God Alone, and His SON Jesus Christ is the only way to Salvation)...Standard - a personal preference (i.e. music, dress, CC v/s no CC in church). To often we are more willing to die for our preferences than we are for what really matters - THE TRUTH! Paul explains this in his letters to the church of Corinth...with the issue of eating meat offered to idols...he (Paul) states that he had learned to abound as well as to abase, how to be rich, and how to be poor; he has learned to be all things to everyone! And if it offended those around him, for him to eat the meat offered to idols, he would abstain from it, even if there was nothing wrong with it. Ultimately he was writing to those that had come out of the LEGALISTIC RELIGION! and was doing his part to incorporate them into the new LIBERTIES they had available THROUGH CHRIST! It boils down to PERSONAL PREFERENCE!
 
Folks, please. I'm not trying to play house mother, but please cool things down so that this thread does not get locked. It has been an invaluable discussion thus far, and I'm guessing most of us would like it to continue. I've certainly enjoyed it and the discussion/debate will be squelched for good if it gets locked. A "guns in church" discussion is very relevant in modern America. Remember, the ignore button CAN be your friend at times.

Apply the verse below as needed:
Proverbs 14:7 (King James Version)
Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.
 
Just have "Ezekiel 25:17" written on each security guards badge.

I haven't been following this thread, but armed guards in churches is far from unheard of. Up until the 20th century, it was the norm and still is in some places to have armed guards in churches.
Ever see the movie: "The Red Balloon"? If you ever see it again, get a look at what's on each side of the church doors when the kids grandmother takes him to church.
At the Vatican, they have the Swiss Guards, which guard all of the church buildings and are armed to the teeth with both open and concealed carry weapons, both hand weapons and guns.
 
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