Guns no longer welcome at Starbucks

[texasgun]

what did we expect? just google image search "Starbucks" and "guns" and you'll find plenty of pics of people "posing" with their AR15 in Starbucks or having a full size pistol OC on their belt with 3 spare mags....

that's just dumb :banghead: Starbucks doesn't want to be part of the political discussion...

I do CC in the city ... smooth, elegant and everybody feels fine. I OC when hiking in the mountains .... and again .... no big deal. There's a place for CC and there's a place for OC.

 

[Fryerpower]

So the big question is where am I going to get a good ground espresso beans by mail? I've been buying my Starbucks Dark French Roast at Walmart. I've tried the other coffee they sell and it is not up to snuff.

Jim

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Can you list an example of a state where the law would allow an arrest based on the CEO's letter/memo?

Just got around to looking back after my last post. Sorry that I did not see this.

In answer to this question, no I cannot. However, the presumption I made when I posted my previous comment was that the armed person would have been informed by local means to leave or not to enter in the first place. That local means may be by word of mouth in the place of business or by prominent posting.

How far this will go, in terms of local store policies, I have no idea. If anybody has noticed any changes in their local Starbucks with respect to notices/postings, I would be greatly interested.

 

[Zach S]

Can you list an example of a state where the law would allow an arrest based on the CEO's letter/memo?

North Carolina

GS 14-415.11
(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
<snip>
(8) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

I'm pretty sure the highly publicized letter from the CEO would qualify as "a statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises."

Could be a gray area though due to him saying "this is a request and not an outright ban," and his repeated references to to OC, without any mention of CC.

 

[Field Tester]

Just to clear something up, I've seen quite a bit of name calling on this and other threads regarding the gentleman holding the shotgun. This picture appeared on a blog and said gentleman wrote the blog later to have them add after the fact that picture was taken in Afghanistan. Just thought those of you who might continue to take the High Road and belittle him should know that. I have no clue if he was Military or PMC or not.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This picture appeared on a blog and said gentleman wrote the blog later to have them add after the fact that picture was taken in Afghanistan. Just thought those of you who might continue to take the High Road and belittle him should know that. I have no clue if he was Military or PMC or not.

It was Kuwait, not Afghanistan. He was in the Navy, not sure if enlisted or officer, active duty or reserve, but in the Navy at the time. I have been in that exact same Starbucks myself, but I am not the guy in the picture. My sidearm was an M9 pistol. In fact, I have posts right here on THR that were made from that Starbucks.

 

[NavyLCDR]

North Carolina

GS 14-415.11
(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
<snip>
(8) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

I'm pretty sure the highly publicized letter from the CEO would qualify as "a statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises."

Could be a gray area though due to him saying "this is a request and not an outright ban," and his repeated references to to OC, without any mention of CC.

You would be mistaken. Releasing a public statement does not constitute POSTING on the PREMISES where carrying a concealed handgun is prohbited.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Let's even this up.....

Since we like photos....

 

[Field Tester]

LCDR,

Thanks for clearing that up buddy!
And thank you for your service sir!

 

[Field Tester]

Any background on the people in orange? What was that all about, where, when and why orange?

 

[riceboy72]

Any background on the people in orange? What was that all about, where, when and why orange?

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Reverend_Billy_protesting_against_Starbucks.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverend_Billy_and_the_Church_of_Stop_Shopping

I guess I fail to see the point of the pictures just posted, but that's me.

 

[BSA1]

With 12 pages of discussion and over 286 posts it is hard to quote all of the comments but here is a snapshot of some of them;

Post 31; Because the anti gun groups didn't show up at Starbucks with rifles strapped to their backs. That's the kind of thing that tends to present a negative image to people.

Post 154; If you didn't have nearby cover, not concealment, to move to, would it not be understandable to draw your CCW and engage this person.

Somewhere along the line this thread has become focused on walking into Starbucks with a long gun on hand yet I have yet to see any links or photographs that is happening;

Post 192; If I'm ever sitting in a restaurant or coffee shop as someone walks through the door with an AR-15 in HAND, I doubt I'd be sitting in my chair by the time they made it through the door... it would be a move towards cover, and potentially drawing a firearm.

The photos in Post 122 and 152 does not support the claim that folks are walking into Starbucks with their handguns drawn and long guns at port arms. In fact it is clear they are carefully staged photos. Two of the photos were taken after they purchased Starbucks products. In fact the two with the gun owners displaying Starbucks products and logo could even be used in ads in more pro-gun, conservative areas of the country.

I guess this is a case of me being just a small town farm boy. Smiling adults (especially that cute redhead) dressed similar to how I do holding a company product and displaying it’s logo just doesn’t create alarm for me.

Post 245; For many citizens, probably a large majority in urban and large suburban areas, a holstered firearm is a major problem. That is not usually a very objective assessment, but it is very real.

Post 67; Forget guns, around here camouflage and cowboy boots causes rolled eyes.

I think this helps show my argument about differences in cultural differences. But if those folks are never exposed to open carry how will they ever overcome their beliefs in the anti-gun propaganda and fear of guns?

Time to go…coffee is cold and I have chores to do.

 

[pockets]

Wow......there sure are some random photos in this thread.
The white suited actor known as 'Reverend Billy' (Bill Talen's stage name) and his orange robed 'activist performance group' The Church of Stop Shopping. They turn up when pretty much anything needs to be protested.

I was sort of hoping that they'd find a comet to pine after.

.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Any background on the people in orange? What was that all about, where, when and why orange?

Yup, that is just a performance artist who's character that is a hybrid of street preacher, arguably Elvis, and televangelist called Reverend Billy.

They don't always wear orange, it depends on where they are performing. Here is an X-mas themed protest:

 

[javjacob]

I would say what I thought of the situation but if I did I would probably get banned. I'll just say that crowd of protesters are a bunch of maroons (mis spelled it I know but not sure if I would get in trouble for saying the real word)

 

[22-rimfire]

Think I will go get me some coffee.

Unless posted on the premises, there is no legal restriction to carry inside a Starbucks unless the city or county has restrictions for a particular area.

 

[hso]

But someone open carrying has folks on this forum

No, people posturing with firearms at Starbucks has members of this forum being critical of how their using Starbucks as a stage for their act has harmed OC, CC, and the 2A community.

If normal behavior was all that was taking place none of us would be critical of members of the community.

The motorcycle community normalized people's views by acting normally instead of outrageously.

 

[Prince Yamato]

If normal behavior was all that was taking place none of us would be critical of members of the community.

I think if instead of a daily occurrence, there was a yearly "open-carry" or 2A rally where people did this, it wouldn't create a commotion. The problem was people are doing this daily/weekly. It's like having the Sturgis Bike Rally on that same basis. Once a year, it's entertaining/makes its point. Every day, people start complaining about the noise.

 

[hso]

You mean that people would get tired of clowns if the circus was in town all the time?

 

[goon]

It was Kuwait, not Afghanistan. He was in the Navy, not sure if enlisted or officer, active duty or reserve, but in the Navy at the time. I have been in that exact same Starbucks myself, but I am not the guy in the picture. My sidearm was an M9 pistol. In fact, I have posts right here on THR that were made from that Starbucks.

It would appear then that the criticism of him was unjustified.
Posing with the Mossberg may have been better thought out... but when you're in the military sometimes you pose for pics.
If that's all true, then the poor guy got also got drawn into something I'd imagine he'd just as soon not be involved in.

No, people posturing with firearms at Starbucks has members of this forum being critical of how their using Starbucks as a stage for their act has harmed OC, CC, and the 2A community.

If normal behavior was all that was taking place none of us would be critical of members of the community.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

This whole discussion has taught me that there really are some very unreasonable people within our own ranks. I don't want to alienate them because we need all our votes on the same side, but man, how do we get them to not act like a bunch of tools?

 

[BullfrogKen]

I'm in complete argeement with Mike (hso) on this issue.


Doing something completely inappropriate for attention tends to draw attention. Like in this development.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

"Photo taken in 2005 in Kuwait" . . . "US Navy serviceman who was required to carry a firearm off-base"

Apparently that photo was used without checking the provenance (origin and documentation). And any comments I have made based on accepting it as one of the "appreciation day" events, here or elsewhere, mea culpa.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by BullfrogKen: I'm in complete argeement with Mike (hso) on this issue.

Doing something completely inappropriate for attention tends to draw attention. Like in this development.

So am I.

I have never understood the contention that publicly doing something that one has a right to do simply for the purpose of 'exercising' a right is helpful.

In come cases, familiarity gained by occasional benign and non-conrontational exposure to something that someone dislikes may serve to reduce one's level of concern about that something.

But when it comes to stimulus-response conditioning, repetitive exposure to frequent and/or strong negative stimuli usually has a negative result.

In most heavily urban and large suburban areas, a substantial plurality, if not a large majority, of people have a negative impression of firearms, and in particular, of firearms that are displayed. As long as nothing happens to trigger a negative response, most of them are usually unlikely to take the effort to actively do anything about it.

"Pro RKBA" demonstrations are the kind of stimulus that can provoke such a negative response.

That has been shown here.

 

[BSA1]

The motorcycle community normalized people's views by acting normally instead of outrageously.

Is it?

Or have people learned to look pass the appearance of bikers and ignore the outlaw image portrayed in movies?

Could it be that by being neighbors and coworkers that they have learned that bikers have many of the same values they do and share the same concerns such as living on budget, paying the bills, keeping their kids out of trouble and off drugs and the power of the Federal Government?

It wasn't so very long ago that advocates of concealed carry laws were called extremists and predictions of firefights in stores and on the streets if c.c. laws were passed?

Now it turns out the picture of the man holding the shotgun wasn't even taken in America!



I have never understood the contention that publicly doing something that one has a right to do simply for the purpose of 'exercising' a right is helpful.

IMHO the surest way to lose your rights is not to exercise them.

 

[DPris]

One thing to keep in mind is that Starbucks is in the business of selling products, they are not in the business of promoting anybody's gun rights.

Their bottom line is profit.
To their credit, they've taken something of a positive line so far in favor of gun-owners, by not automatically falling in with the hysterical gun control movement.

If & when, as is happening, their tolerance of open carry is pushed too far by idiots merely looking to make a statement ON EITHER SIDE, and their profit margin or image begins to be affected adversely by such activities, they can't be blamed for altering policy to reduce such adverse business effects.

They exist to sell coffee & related coffee-shop products. They do not exist to be a clubhouse for open carriers or to be a retail poster child for ANY cause.

Denis