Gunshot detectors

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geim druth

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Is there really such a thing as a viable gunshot detector?


http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-12/1187067742306540.xml&coll=1&thispage=1

After wicked blow, Newark readies a counterpunch
Tuesday, August 14, 2007
BY MARK DI IONNOStar-Ledger Staff
The bodies are buried, and the public mourning is over. At the Mount Vernon School bleachers memorial, the candles have burned down and the Mylar balloons have lost their helium.
Now comes the hardest part. To dry the tears, but keep the outrage. To take this sad, sick tragedy and make it stand for change. Now comes the time to fix what is broken. The time for leaders to back up the words they spoke from three church pulpits Saturday at the funerals of Dashon Harvey, Terrance Aeriel and Iofemi Hightower.
Newark Mayor Cory Booker will start today by announcing an expanding surveillance program called Community Eye, which will put about 100 security cameras and audio gunshot-detection machines overlooking city streets. The Newark Community Foundation, with funding from businesses and private donors, has promised to raise $3.2 million for the program, which Booker will announce today at a news conference.
"When all the cameras and gunshot detectors are up, we will have about 8 square miles of the city covered," Booker told The Star-Ledger yesterday.
Those 8 square miles are among the highest-crime areas of the city, where about 80 percent of the city's recent shootings have happened.
The city already has 32 long-range security cameras along business zones and there were plans to put up more. But Community Eye will reach deeper into troubled neighborhoods.
The gunshot detectors, sensitive enough to differentiate between gunshots and other explosions like engine backfires, alert police immediately, cutting down on response time.
"We can get the police there faster, get an ambulance there faster and save lives," Booker said.
The technology works together. When a gunshot is detected, the surveillance camera will immediately zoom in on that spot. The cameras cover overlapping areas, so police can electronically follow suspects as they leave the scene. Booker told of one surveillance video of a mugging in the Ironbound where the suspects ran from one camera coverage area into another and were quickly apprehended.
On Thursday, Booker will announce a "comprehensive gun strategy," which will include a series of initiatives to control gun traffic into the city.
"Our trace research shows more guns come into the city from Virginia than any other state," Booker said.
Surprisingly, New Jersey is second.
"Fifteen to 20 percent of the guns used in Newark crime are sold by New Jersey gun retailers," Booker said.
In other words, it's our problem to fix. In New Jersey, gun permits are signed by local police chiefs, and Booker will ask the mayors of the 10 towns where "the worst offender" retailers are located to join him in a crackdown.
"We want a package of legislation for better audits of gun retailers. We're also looking into litigation against out-of-state retailers," he said.
Booker said the cameras and gun initiatives are just two quick steps on what will be a long, arduous journey along many social, educational and criminal justice paths.
Newark Councilman Ron Rice Jr., wants police to call federal officials if they arrest an illegal immigrant on a felony. Essex Executive Joe DiVincenzo, too, said he wants to make sure the county follows through on notifying immigration officials when illegals are jailed.
The city council is fashioning new curfew rules that will fine parents for the first offense while offering mentorship to the children at new faith-based curfew centers.
Senate President Richard Codey wants an investigation of the bail system in Essex County, which allowed murder suspect Jose Lachira Carranza to post $150,000 bail on a child rape charge. There is talk of legislation to rewrite the bail statutes, which now guarantee bail for everyone but murderers involved in capital cases.
Both Booker and DiVincenzo spoke of enhancing social, recreational and family programs on the city and county level.
"We have to look at everything, from early prevention to ex-offender re-entry," Booker said. "We're going to increase the services and visibility of our family success centers."
DiVincenzo wants to continue to improve and expand recreation facilities and opportunities.
"We've done great things with our parks. When you give people good things, they appreciate it. Look at Ivy Hill Park. It's beautiful, there's no graffiti. We have to keep going, keep building up that pride in the community. That's where it all starts."
At Ivy Hill, which is across from Mount Vernon School, DiVincenzo is planning a permanent memorial garden for the three students and a plaque with their names.
"People can't forget this," he said. "Hopefully, they'll look back some day and say, 'That's when everything started to change.' We have to start those changes now."
Failure to do so, will leave Newark burned out and deflated.
Mark Di Ionno may be reached at (973) 392-1728 or [email protected].
 
I understand these things work fairly well.

"We can get the police there faster, get an ambulance there faster and save lives," Booker said.
I sure hope they don't send an ambulance every time this thing goes off, or somebody is going to have to pick up the tab (odds are it won't be the criminals).
 
In theory?

Probably - in reality? I doubt it. All the technology i've seen or read about on them - at least on an urban scale - uses triangulation and Doppler techniques based upon a sound pressure level and general frequency.

While they probably work great in a controlled environment, i would think the environment would play havoc with this concept.

Now granted, I'm not an audio engineer, just a guy who studies the practical application of sound waves and pressure levels for entertainment purposes (I'm a home theater nut). Any engineers here who may be able to educate?
 
Seeing the holes in roadsigns and other such items, perhaps we should re-name these "Gunshot Attractors".
 
If it works, seems like a pretty decent idea. (referring strictly to the gunshot detector/camera system) I am sure there are downsides which someone will promptly slap me with. :rolleyes:
 
For one shot, and subsonic rounds, triangulation might work, but they'd have to be calibrated --maybe by settting off firecrackers. :)

For rapid double-taps or a "spray and pray" situation, it would probably confuse the detectors no end.

For supersonic rifle fire, with a hundred echoes off all the buildings from the sonic booms, lotsa luck.

Remember everybody hearing shots from everywhere in Dallas that black day in November of 1963?

I'd hate to have to write the software to discriminate a direction with multiple shots or supersonic cracks coming from everywhere.
 
Newark Councilman Ron Rice Jr., wants police to call federal officals if they arrest an illegal immigrant on a felony. Essex Executive Joe DiVincenzo, too, said he wants to make sure the county follows through on notifying immigration officals when illegals are jailed.
One of the many things I can't understand:confused: about illegals is why they are treated any differently from American citizens when being dealt with by our justice system. Does going to jail give them a rash?:fire: No, they are handed over to the feds, who set a hearing date for them and turn them loose! I'm giving odds on how many actually come back to that hearing. In Alabama, any state or local LEO has to have special training in order to arrest a non-citizen! How crazy is this????:banghead: If they are to take our jobs, swamp our hospitals, endanger our highways, and squeeze our welfare system dry, at least punish their criminal acts on a par with the rest of us.:cuss:
 
I could swear I saw a show about these detectors being mounted on vehicles over in the sandbox.

The idea being that when a convoy is fired upon the computer can give a general direction the shot is coming from so soldiers aren't trying to guess and can return fire sooner and more effectively.
 
"Fifteen to 20 percent of the guns used in Newark crime are sold by New Jersey gun retailers," Booker said.
If it's such common knowledge doesn't the ATF pay them a visit and see if their bound book matches their inventory and NICS approval numbers?

per some TV shows..the military wants to use some for detecting snipers within a couple seconds of the first shot...if memory serves
I saw something like that on Futureweapons or one of those shows. For a single shot that might work but if you have a sniper taking shots at troops during a firefight I wonder if it still works.

The technology works together. When a gunshot is detected, the surveillance camera will immediately zoom in on that spot. The cameras cover overlapping areas, so police can electronically follow suspects as they leave the scene. Booker told of one surveillance video of a mugging in the Ironbound where the suspects ran from one camera coverage area into another and were quickly apprehended.
So it will zoom in on gunshots, but it sounds like they are on all the time also. Smile and wave to big brother.
 
I could swear I saw a show about these detectors being mounted on vehicles over in the sandbox.

I think I saw that or something similar on Future Weapons.

Just recently I saw one of the local news broadcasts reporting that Chicago has purchased one of these systems too. I forget the exact cost they cited but do remember it was huge. Our tax dollars at work.
 
Gunshot detectors detect gunfire, i.e., noise AFTER THE FACT. Kinda like how the police are supposed to investigate crime, not prevent it.

I assume these detectors are smart enough to discern the difference between gunfire and a backfiring car, firecrackers, and other sharp, loud noises?
 
Remember the first computer you used? Compare it with the one you are using now. I suspect this system works to a degree, but has many of the draw backs noted in the posts above. That doesn’t mean the technology won’t develop over time to reduce or eliminate those drawbacks. There is not guarantee it will get better; remember electric cars? Electric car technology has pretty much remained stagnant over the last 40+ years. To find out if this technology will improve or not it will have to be used in real life, like they are apparently trying in Newark. “The Newark Community Foundation, with funding from businesses and private donors, has promised to raise $3.2 million” and gamble it will help reduce crime. They have a big crime problem, they will have to take risks to solve it, and I hope this works for them.
 
I've heard of at least one university professor working on improving the detection capabilities of these systems.

230RN said:
For supersonic rifle fire, with a hundred echoes off all the buildings from the sonic booms, lotsa luck....I'd hate to have to write the software to discriminate a direction with multiple shots or supersonic cracks coming from everywhere.
It's called signal processing. We'll handle it from here. :D
 
Over in Murderapolis they have those things set up in "high crime" neighborhoods. Now, they have even more expensive tools to help them show up "after the fact" of a shooting.
 
The gunshot detectors, sensitive enough to differentiate between gunshots and other explosions like engine backfires, alert police immediately, cutting down on response time.
"We can get the police there faster, get an ambulance there faster and save lives," Booker said.

Hope they can get to me before the bullet does.
 
Thanks for the answers. I was skeptical about these devices, but perhaps I'm just being old fashioned.

Still, even if the technology is there, I see problems with implementation. For one thing, PTK is right about the vulnerability of these things to vandalism.
 
Anything can be used for good or bad.

Remember, it is the "intent" not the thing.


Gun-Shot detectors can be good, or bad.
It depends on the environment and intent of use/abuse.

For example, allow me to use Burglar Alarms to illustrate. One can verify that what I am about to share goes w-a-y back, and still occurs.

Alarms gave/give folks a "good feeling" both the store owners and customers.
BGs would "see" the alarm tape, the sticker on the window and be deterred.
Police, could respond faster.

Utopia! Right?

Sorry man, there is no Utopia.

BGs toss rocks , break windows and make note of Police response times, and what person (owner /employee) comes to deal with an Alarm going off.

1. BGs are going to hit a store on the North side of town, and rocks are tossed on South side of town and all the Police run South and BGs have time to snatch and grab.
Back up a wrecker and snag a safe.

2. BGs see who comes to attend to alarms going off.
This was not rocket science in the old days, even easier today unless one is street savvy, even so ...
a. follow them home.
b. go into business, and "may I have your card please?" and
easy to find out where this person lives.

Great, the sticker on the window tells one what alarm company.
Call this person with keys at 1 am "Acme Alarm, the alarm is going off", best to do this on a stormy night when alarms are going off around town.

Employee is not awake , fumbling with umbrella and take them at gunpoint just down the street, apt parking lot, or when they show up and the alarm is NOT going off.

Touchy feel good and everyone is going to be safer...just went out the window.
Abused, taken advantage of and BGs "intent" made a good thing, a bad thing.


So what is the setting on these detectors with firecrackers?
Toss out, leave scenes, ( oh why not have it sound like a gang war?) and then some distance away , walk into a nightclub and use real gun fire in the parking lot, or inside the joint.

Are the detectors going to pick up a Fast Food joint having gun fire inside?

False sense of security is proven to further lessen folks in being aware, awake and on the ball.
 
It's been a couple of years since I have done any reading on these, but given the technology available now, I would think they should work pretty well. This isn't that tall of an order, sound moves quite slowly.

Timing: If every location has a GPS receiver, they should be able to get the timing down to a few hundred nanoseconds. With sound traveling at about 1100 feet per second, a few hundred nanoseconds would give you amazing accuracy. Even if they only had 1 microsecond accuracy (which is easily achievable with off-the-shelf GPS clocks), that's still a resolution of under an inch. In reality, I'm sure there are probably other factors besides the clock that affect the accuracy, but if the ultimate total error is more than ten feet I'd be shocked.

Multiple Shots: With DSP technology, I'm sure they can get the whole shot processed and analyzed before the next round is fired. Things happen pretty fast these days.

Discrimination From backfires, etc: Since I can speak commands into my phone and have it dial for me, without any voice "learning", it's easy for me to believe that the technology exists to discriminate between gunshots and other similar sounds.

Probably the hardest thing they'd have to deal with would be multipath signals (echos), but they must have a way of characterizing (calibrating) each individual receiver for it's specific location.

My guess is that it works quite well by now.
 
A bit on how it works

Here is a link to an article on these detectors.

http://www.notbored.org/gunshot-detectors.html

Here is an excerpt from that article.

The gunshot detection devices to be installed in Chicago's crime-watching cameras employ a technology similar to a seismograph that measures earthquakes. Circuit boards installed in four corners of each camera identify gunshots by measuring the decibel level of the unique sound made by a bullet traveling through the air at high speed. The sensors are then able to "triangulate within 20 feet" the location of the shooting.

It apparently not only hears the report, but also the travel, leading to a pretty dependable path to the point of origin.

Cool!
 
They don't hear the gunshot at all. They listen for the BULLET the more high tech systems show the entire track of the bullet. And yes they are being used in Iraq (that's what the weather vane looking things on the back of the humvees are).
 
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