H&R Sportsman

[whughett]

I have owned and shot an H&R Sportsman for a number of years now, its not my go to 22 for target but gets a work out several times a year. Its in super condition, accurate and operates flawlessly. To day at the range on the 42nd shot from a box of 50 CCI Stingers, dumped on the bench and loaded randomly from the pile, my left hand was stung in numerous places. I stopped shooting, broke open the piece and found that round had ruptured around the rim. The next round up in the cylinder was squashed, see photo, the bullet still in the chamber. In 60 odd years of shooting I've had numerous misfires with 22's but never one blow out a rim. that's odd enough but the real puzzle is what the heck happened to the unfired adjacent round. The bullet had left the case and would have , most likely, prevented the cylinder from turning, I was shooting double action. The blown case was the third one up of the chambered five, and the rest had all sounded and preformed normal. The fired case preceding the blown one was normal, and yes I fired the final seven in the box. This box was one of four 50 round boxes, like lot numbers, I also have a 500 round unopened brick with the same lot number.

Any way I'm thinking on sending the empty brass to CCI to see if they have an opinion. In the meantime I'll restrict the H&R to standard velocity rounds, although I don't think the fault was with the gun. This lot is quite old, I have no idea of year of manufacture but the boxes are in pristine condition.

 

[Monac]

I have never seen anything like that, whugett, and I've owned an H&R 999 Sportsman for 35+ years. Thanks for putting up a picture. This should be an educational thread.

 

[Waveski]

Sending brass to CCI is certainly a good idea.
That said ... I owned and shot a Sportsman for several years. Nice old top break design , but I would never have considered feeding it Stingers. That is a hot little cartridge. The construction of the 999 is not robust , and the cylinder play is not real tight ; could be that too much gas is escaping in the wrong directions causing the rim to fail. My kids would not shoot the 999 because of the "micro-spitting" it was prone to. Never any lead , but lots of little zingers.

 

[bannockburn]

whughett

Like Monac I have never seen a rimfire round look that. Would definitely contact CCI to see if they can explain what happened.

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

Never seen that. Please keep us posted.

 

[Waveski]

When I posted I was unable to see the image. My feelings about feeding Stingers to a 999 remain unchanged , but Wow - that crushed casing is unlike anything I have ever seen.
And then you discharged the remainder of the box .....? Sheesh.

 

[Charliefrank]

I've used Stingers ever since they came out and have never seen anything like this.

 

[Mauser lover]

Wow... watching this thread.

 

[ray15]

I've got a box of Stingers that's at least 25 years old and it looks at minimum a decade newer than the one in the pic.

 

[LoneGoose]

The only thing I can come up with about that second round is if (and please forgive me) gas from that burst rim shot into its chamber and pneumatically (explosively?) crushed it. The rapid crushing might have popped the bullet out with air compressed in the case. I have a vivid imagination, but that's all I can think of.

 

[Waveski]

I would be interested to see the entire warning label. I still think that the Sportsman was not at all designed for that hot little round , but there remains some pretty interesting unanswered questions.

 

[Jim K]

From what I see, Loose Goose is pretty much correct. Those CCI rounds might be "hot" but do not exceed SAAMI pressure specs; they get their high speed the old-fashioned way, with a light bullet. What happened was that the first round had a burst rim (common in the old days, which is why many older guns have countersunk chambers, but not unknown, even today). That let high pressure gas loose in the rear of the cylinder, where it entered the next chamber and flattened the unfired case. The sudden pressure forced the bullet from the case, but the powder charge did not ignite. Truly a bit freakish, and probably due to a flaw in the metal from which the first case was stamped.

Jim

 

[chicharrones]

I've never seen anything like that before (until this thread) in my 999 or any other rimfire gun.

At this point, I like Lone Goose's theory.

 

[warnerwh]

Please let us know what CCI says. I have like the others never seen that. However I have seen a rim blow out on an old rolling block but that was with standard ammo.

 

[whughett]

A letter and the entire box of 50 fired rounds are going out today. This gun has a N prefix which would indicate a 1966 year of manufacture, with a rebated (?) cylinder. Hard to picture a gun manufactured in the sixties, and for 22 magnums to boot, that would not handle hyper velocity 22's, but for now I'll restrict plinking with her to standard velocity rounds. Have a full unopened brick of the same lot number so hoping CCI will tell me this is a one off round and there were no problems with that production run.
Think Lone Goose has nailed it as far as the crushed round and that rebated cylinder would surely channel the gases around the perimeter and the blown rim was on the left quarter of the case, directly adjacent to the next round up.

 

[Ru4real]

Whughett, you said the round with the rim blow out was fired first. From the photo there appears to be a hole in the side of the crushed case, second round.

I think a piece of rim from the rim blow out round made it's way into the second chamber. Some of your felt hand stingers we probably pieces of rim.

When the second round was fired, the case expanded and sealed mostly at the heeled bulled and rim ends of the case. However, the piece of rim punctured the case where the hole is when the case expanded.

Because the ends of the case outside were sealed, the hole vented gasses between the case and chamber crushing the case from the outside, not leaving enough pressure to get the bullet out of the chamber. Some of your hand stingers from this round was probably powder.

 

[chicharrones]

This gun has a N prefix which would indicate a 1966 year of manufacture, with a rebated (?) cylinder. Hard to picture a gun manufactured in the sixties, and for 22 magnums to boot, that would not handle hyper velocity 22's, but for now I'll restrict plinking with her to standard velocity rounds.

Your 999 Sportsman can take .22 Magnum ammo? My 1981 model 999 can't.

 

[Jack B.]

Had something similar happen with one round out of a 100 rounds of Winchester Super - X 40 Gr. copper plated. I my case it blew the head completely off. Separated from the case body. Was shooting a new Heritage RR. Had louder report and little more recoil than normal. Got a little powder burn mark on my hand. None of the cases in any other cylinders were affected. Showed it around at the range and the consensus was it probably just had a little xtra powder. Rest of the rounds were just fine. Stuff happens.

 

[Speedo66]

Was the Stinger shot in a .22 Mag. cylinder?

 

[Waveski]

I did not know that the 999 was rated for .22 magnum.

 

[flyingtiger85]

I've had several H&R pistols over the years 5 to be exact.I think the 999 Sportsman is the best and most sought after and the 929 with the 9 shot swing out cylinder is the second best in my opinion.That's strange what happened to your ammo.

 

[whughett]

Whughett, you said the round with the rim blow out was fired first. From the photo there appears to be a hole in the side of the crushed case, second round.

I think a piece of rim from the rim blow out round made it's way into the second chamber. Some of your felt hand stingers we probably pieces of rim.

When the second round was fired, the case expanded and sealed mostly at the heeled bulled and rim ends of the case. However, the piece of rim punctured the case where the hole is when the case expanded.

Because the ends of the case outside were sealed, the hole vented gasses between the case and chamber crushing the case from the outside, not leaving enough pressure to get the bullet out of the chamber. Some of your hand stingers from this round was probably powder.

No, there is no hole and that round was not fired, no firing pin indent, although one can't see that in the photo. The powder was still in the case when I pulled it.

Your 999 Sportsman can take .22 Magnum ammo? My 1981 model 999 can't.

No, that was a reference to an internet blog that the gun was produced in 22 Mag also.

Was the Stinger shot in a .22 Mag. cylinder?

No. And while I'm thinking of it, the designation 999 does not appear on this piece anywhere. Is there a difference, in Sportsman and 999 Sportsman. This one is however a nine shot also, wasted on me, I never load more than five. 6 and 9 just doesn't go into 50.

 

[Waveski]

As far as I know , the reference has always been "999 Sportsman". 999 or just Sportsman is used by individuals too lazy ( me , for example) to say or type the full designation.

 

[Ru4real]

Ah, yes. Thanks for the clarification whughett.

 

[chicharrones]

No, that was a reference to an internet blog that the gun was produced in 22 Mag also.

No. And while I'm thinking of it, the designation 999 does not appear on this piece anywhere. Is there a difference, in Sportsman and 999 Sportsman. This one is however a nine shot also, wasted on me, I never load more than five. 6 and 9 just doesn't go into 50.

I'm not up to speed on the markings on the H&R Sportsmans through all the years. Mine has "Sportsman" on the barrel and "Model 999" on the barrel right in front of the cylinder above the words "made in USA". Plus, the 999s cylinder is too short front to back to take a .22 WMR. I think the frame is up to .22 WMR, but the cylinder and frame opening can't take the length. Not to mention other little issues with the cylinder spacing for a larger diameter cartridge in that gun.

Believe me, I thought about converting a 999 to .22 WMR.

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