Hand To Hand Training

[JCook5003]

Ok guys after watching some of those caught on video type shows......and after something I witnessed this New Years Eve, I have decided I need to take a hand to hand type class.....

I don’t want to study a formal martial art.....I want to learn to fight off an attacker long enough to run away or employ my firearm....

I think I have been foolish to believe my weapons training was enough and I want to be prepared for the fight and I know it wont go down the way I have pictured it.......

I was looking for some kind of seminar or class I could take and learn some good hand to hand techniques and defense.......

What do you guys recommend and are there any classes like this over our way in Southwest Virginia.

Thanks in advance.

 

[DFW1911]

See if you can find a Krav Maga school somewhere close by. They have a strong emphasis on practical self defense, it's easy to pick up and WILL get you in shape whether you plan to or not

If you don't see if any of the formal training schools offer some type of self defense program - many do as they realize not everyone is looking to earn a black belt over the next X amount of years. If they don't maybe they can customize something for you.

Some arts lend themselves naturally to self defense since they're based on practicality and economy of motion: Jeek Kune Do, Aiki-Jitsu, Kali / Arnis and a whole list of others I'm missing. Finally, Western Boxing and (American or Thai) Kickboxing shouldn't be underestimated in their ability to help you out in a bind.

Regardless of what you pick, you'll need to practice until techniques become second nature.

If you have a list of what' s available in your area let us know and we'll probably be able to advise.

Have fun,
DFW1911

 

[Apachedriver]

+1 on Krav Maga. My personal experience has been very satisfying with regard to its real life application and the intensity of the training. It includes some of the strengths of other arts. I find it complements my CCWing very well...gives me plenty more options before drawing becomes an option. I was attending regularly in Austin until the Army decided yet again I was having to much fun where I was stationed.

Ultimately something is better than nothing.

 

[Hardware]

Only based on my personal experience, don't discount Tai Chi. Assuming of course you can find a kwoon that emphasizes the martial aspect of the art. Don't even consider classes for exercise, they are the equivalent of a butter knife to the real martial applications. It is a good way to go if you are out of shape or stiff. The emphasis on balance and fluid movement gives you a solid base before you get to more advanced techniques.

The downside of this is; don't go into it expecting to learn it all in a couple of months. This is something you'll have to do and stick with in order to improve.

 

[Tim Burke]

InSights Unarmed Self Defense. I've taken it twice, once with my daughter when she was 14. I've sent my wife. I'm looking to have all three of us take it again, now that my daughter is getting ready to graduate from HS. It's a 2 day course that works on just a handful of viable skills, and drills them in sufficiently that you leave with the ability to employ them. Quantico is as close as they are coming to you on the current schedule, but that may change. My wife attended a class that was 10 hours away, my daughter and I attended one that was 8 hours away.
Highly recommended.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

I'll also throw in and strongly support Krav Maga.

I'll also suggest taking some basic judo. Why? Because early on, judo teaches you how to fall. Most people just flat panic when they're on the way to the ground or on the ground. Panic inhibits your ability to think, act and react appropriately. And falling/landing wrong can easily incapicitate you.

Jeff

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

best thing about training is it gives you options. as a ll guy who fought a lot i think good training also helps prepare a winning midset. i always tried to rachet the action up faster and higher and furthur than the other guys. i don't need to win as much as i need not to lose. someone disengaging is just as good as a win

 

[damyankee]

Boxing, Kickboxing, Judo, BJJ, Wrestling.

If your even mildly intelligent you can figure out how to use these to a brutal effect when there are no rules.

I agree with cass that training will also sharpen your mind to win as well as your body.

 

[DFW1911]

Great recommendation on Judo. Of the two fights I've been in since reaching "adulthood" both were finished before they started thanks to Judo throws.

People really don't see them coming...then they're on the ground wondering how they got there!

 

[damyankee]

Great recommendation on Judo. Of the two fights I've been in since reaching "adulthood" both were finished before they started thanks to Judo throws.

People really don't see them coming...then they're on the ground wondering how they got there!

YUP

When you throw someone at the ground, at the point of impact the ground will ALWAYS win!

 

[OAKTOWN]

I am biased, but my Krav Maga experience has been very positive. However, do your research when looking for a school. Krav Maga Worldwide is the primary oranization you will encouter it the US. They have been expanding affiliated schools rapidly and this has led to a great deal of variation in the quality of individual schools. Make sure your instructors have a background in other arts, my preference would be boxing/judo/muay thai/savate. You don't want to wind up with a freshly certified former cardio-kickboxing instructor If you can find someone who's trained in Isreal (Wingate, IKMF) that would be a plus.

As for "self defense" seminars. Two days is not enough time to learn techniques well enough to pull them off reliably, under stress, against a resisting opponent who's trying to stomp your guts out. You'll be better off spending spending that couple of hundred bucks for a few months of real training.

 

[Tim Burke]

Two days is not enough time to learn techniques well enough to pull them off reliably, under stress, against a resisting opponent who's trying to stomp your guts out.

You know this because you've taken the class? People have successfully used these skills after taking the class once.

 

[Timthinker]

I am going to go against the mainstream and recommend that you seek out a place that teaches unarmed fighting skills such as W.E. Fairbairn taught to the British Commandos in World War Two. If such a place is available in your area, it will teach techniques that are easy to learn, simple to use and effective in application. Techniques such as palm heel strikes and elbow blows do not take years to learn and are very practical. After learning this type of fighting, then take any martial art(s) you desire. But make sure the core of any fighting system consists of simple, proven techniques that can be applied in the real world. Otherwise, you place your trust in something of doubious value.

For what it is worth, I took traditional martial arts training and believe the type of fighting techniques I have described are superior. PM me and I will try to provide some more detailed evidence for my beliefs.


Timthinker

 

[John4me05]

For self defense without classes know 3 key areas to focus on... Nuts, knees, and eyes.. Take 1 of these 3 areas and the fight is over...

If i could reccomend any style it would be something military.. They practice this stuff cause they HAVE to know what to do.. Everyday they can face a chance it will be needed... You may have struck on something to benefit your community... If you have a reserves office nearby talk with the OIC and see if they would be willing to teach the community classes if they have time.. Could benefit someone else who may need it more than you who may never ever need it..

 

[Timthinker]

John, that is why I like Fairbairn. He spent years in Shanghai, China studying various martial arts while serving on the police force there. After that extensive experience, he taught very simple and effective fighting techniques to Allied servicemen in World War Two. Those fighting techniques were based upon years of practical experience garnered in life-and-death street brawls. This is why I have such admiration for the man and his fighting system. Now, I do not wish to offend others with my views. I truly respect the time and effort they spend on martial arts training. All I ask is that people consider what I have proposed with an open mind.


Timthinker

 

[John4me05]

Agreed... There is studying "fighting" styles and then there is "self defense" styles... An average person doesnt need BJJ or full on kick boxing and what not.. now like you if people want to go that route (i train a few different styles myself) then thats jsut fine.. But most people need and want to know how to fend off an attacker and not have a 3 5 minute round fight with them...

Now no one please think i am demeaning any of your thoughts or posts... This is just my opinion and it could be worth alot or nothing at all...

 

[John4me05]

I have a underlying desire to be in something like the UFC although i will probably never recognize that dream i would like to be prepared if the oppotunity presented itself

 

[weisse52]

Deleted

 

[weisse52]

Nothing is perfect, but something is better than nothing. Sometimes just taking the training is good for people to understand what really happens in a fight. People need to understand that that need to be prepared. Training does that for you.

Having said that, look into Jujitsu, worked for me. Judo is excellent as well.

 

[Mad Chemist]

Quote:
Two days is not enough time to learn techniques well enough to pull them off reliably, under stress, against a resisting opponent who's trying to stomp your guts out.

You know this because you've taken the class? People have successfully used these skills after taking the class once.

If you already have a solid background in unarmed skills and combatives training then it is relatively easy to pick up new skills from a seminar. However, if you are new to unarmed training and are not extremely well coordinated or athletic, then I agree that it's better to establish a foundation first.

Also, strength and conditioning cannot be overlooked. Even if one is more skilled than their opponent, if that opponent is quicker and more powerful I know which one I'd bet on.

 

[OAKTOWN]

Quote:

You know this because you've taken the class? People have successfully used these skills after taking the class once.
__________________
TB., NC

I know this because I spend a lot of time training with people who are better, bigger, stronger, faster than me. Self defense seminars can impart some useful tricks and help impart the correct mindset. However, they are not skills. It would be the same as saying dusting off the pistol and shooting a couple of boxes of ammo twice a year makes you skilled with firearms.

People are free to do their own cost to benefit calculations. Personally, I think it's better to spend the money on at least several months of real striking/grappling training. If nothing else it's a great education in how much you don't know.

 

[strambo]

I know this because I spend a lot of time training with people who are better, bigger, stronger, faster than me.

It's a good thing self-defense isn't about who is bigger-faster-stronger-better. It is simply about who gets injured and who doesn't.

A nurse in Oregon (very overweight) killed a man hired to murder her with her bare hands (strangled him) after sustaining hammer blows from him. A man with no arms knocked out, and stomped a man in GA. There are examples of people with no training and poor physical attributes successfully protecting themselves all the time. Of course, there are examples of failure as well. The question is; How to most efficiently teach someone to reliably injure an assailant in a realistic situation? The answer doesn't lie in sports based arts with an assumption of 1 on 1, similar size, strength, skill and the inability to actually injure each other (pesky rules and laws).

I'm not saying someone can "best" a larger, faster opponent after a 2 day seminar...I'm saying someone can reliably injure a bigger, faster criminal and survive after a 2 day seminar. It happens all the time when people have no training and just a will to live. It would happen more reliably if everyone had a little of the right training.

WWII commandos were sent behind enemy lines to conduct raids and assassinations with only about 14 hours of H2H training.

 

[MostlyGenius]

Oaktown: Shooting 2 boxes of ammo is not two days of training, so that analogy falls apart. Shooting small amounts of ammo regularly is enough to retain proficiency but not enough to really improve.

The problem with all of the martial arts is that if you wanted to have some self-defense proficiency, it is going to be months before you get there. In traditional martial arts this is because you getting a grounding in the principles, with examples and repetition. This is why there are enumerated sequences of defenses and counters against specific attacks. Mastery isn't regurgitating sequence number 5 on demand, it is applying the correct principles in right situations. The sequences are illustrations of principles.

How many Krav Maga classes do you have to take before you have the skills to defend yourself? It is a loaded question because in a certain number of class hours you will have some level of proficiency to respond to a certain range of threats. That is no different than the seminar model. The difference is in the range of threats and number of repetitions you get per threat.

 

[Apachedriver]

Yeah, but...

How many Krav Maga classes do you have to take before you have the skills to defend yourself? It is a loaded question because in a certain number of class hours you will have some level of proficiency to respond to a certain range of threats. That is no different than the seminar model. The difference is in the range of threats and number of repetitions you get per threat.

...a seminar usually only focuses on a set grouping of forms or techniques. It is not really designed to teach a set level of proficiency but instead to introduce or reinforce a set group. Training in Krav, as in other forms of combatives, focuses on applicable survival or self-defense techniques from day one; they are repeated over the long term along with being used to build on other techniques. Also Krav is based on instinctual human physical responses to attacks by others, ie. average person responds to being choked by grabbing at the hazard. Krav builds on that natural response to effect a simultaneous defense and counter-attack.
My son took martial arts for a several years and it wasn't until much later on in the course of study that he began to get into the application mode of learning, ie. sparring. I didn't have the "time to waste", so to speak, on the pretty forms but instead in something I could apply right away in my line of work. (Life or death situations) Krav starts you from day one. Its focus is combat. It is not for sport and it is not an art.
Now understand, I am not in any way trying to devaluing any form or martial art, sporting or not. Just simply explaining why Krav works for me personally.
The one given is that regardless of what you study, how much you put in at the school and at home, reflects directly into what you will get out of it.

Great. Now I'm homesick for my training sessions. Is that even possible???


PS - ST relation?? Definately gives me many more options when I'm carrying to resolve a bad situation, once walking away is no longer an option, prior to drawing and (potentially) lethally stopping an attacker.

 

[Brian@ITC]

Well... I MIGHT know where you could find a good H2H course. Might want to check out our site and consider hosting a course. We don't need a range for that unless you want to know how to implement the gun into the fight. If that is the case, then you would need to attend or host an Advanced Pistol Fighting Level II Course.