Handgun and my 19 yearold friend

[GregGry]

Hello, I apoligize if I put this in the wrong place. Here is the situation:

I am 22 years of age, and I have a good friend thats 19 years old (going to be 20 soon). He wants a handgun, looking for something like a xd40. Here is the problem. His mother and step father said they would go to the gun store with him, and buy the pistol for him, but he could not store the pistol at the house . That was 4 months ago. Now that he has the money to buy one, his parents are telling him that they wont buy it for him (he would be paying for it). He is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

His blood related father could possibly buy it for him, but he doesn't want to go there because he doesn't care to talk with him much. Since his Mother and step father are no longer willing to buy it for him, he doesn't have many options. Both he and I live in Wisconsin.

Is there any way that he can have a pistol of his own? I am not going to buy one for him due to that being a straw purchase. I have thought that it might be a possibility if he buys the pistol from a person that isn't a FFL dealer, then he could own it legaly. Is this true? What about ammo purchases? Since you have to be 21 to buy handgun ammo, is the only option he has for buying ammo through his parents?

The last thing is, would it be legal for me to buy an xd40, and just let him use it when he goes to the range? The gun would be in my possesion at all times, except times when he is firing at the range. I will be at the range anytime he is firing it, so the gun will technically never leave my sight. That would be one option of allowing him to go to the range with my friends and I, since he can't rent a pistol. Then again I don't want to get into trouble because I am letting him use one of my pistols, and giving him ammo to use with the pistol. Its stupid that things have to be this complicated just because someone is a little more then a year younger then 21 :banghead:

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

If he can't buy a gun legally then do not aid him in buying one...period. Trying to find a way to do it is a crime if he is the one paying for it..

 

[GregGry]

If you read what I posted, you would see that I am not aiding him in buying one. I was asking if there is any legal way he can obtain a pistol, and ammunition other then with his parents. That and if I can let him use a pistol I own while at the range, and under my supervision. I am not going to buy him a pistol or ammo. If I can't legaly let him use a pistol I have and ammo of my own while at a shooting range, then so be it. My only involvement in his situation is letting him know what his LEGAL options are besides having his parents buy him the pistol. After all informing someone on what the laws are and what they can do within the laws, isn't a crime.

 

[SoCalShooter]

PlayboyPenguin is right. Tell him to save his money its not that long. Go to the range and rent for now. Doing much else can be seen as trying to get a minor a weapon and you dont want that felony. So please just tell him to be patient. If the law says 21 for ammo and 21 for a handgun you should stick to it. Anything else can be considered a felony.

 

[doggscube]

402 posts and you don't know this is a gray area in which you don't want to be?

The closest I'd imagine you can get to buying a handgun for someone under 21 is to buy one just like the one he wants with your own money, keep your gun at your house, never let him have your gun except to let him shoot your gun, then sell your gun to him when he is of age.

If you're buying it, the key phrase above is "your gun." Don't do anything that can be seen as it not being your gun. Don't take his money.

-Jeff

 

[GregGry]

Again I will restate. I am not accepting money from him for anything. I am not buying him anything. I am just going to inform him of what his LEGAL options are. I have wanted a XD9 or a XD40 for a while. If I buy one it will be for myself. I need to know if I can LEGALY let him use a pistol of mine while on the range. That and if he has any other LEGAL ways to purchase a pistol. I know that it is a Grey area, and I am only involved enough to inform him on what he can do.

Also, I am pretty sure that in Wisconsin you can own a pistol at age 18. The problem is you can't legaly buy it from a FFL dealer.

 

[RNB65]

The 21 age limit is a federal law which only applies to guns sold by FFL licensed dealers. It does not apply to private sales. In many (most?) states, anyone over 18 can own a handgun. Check the gun laws in your state for the ownership age and then check the local papers for folks selling guns.

 

[Jim K]

The federal law prohibits licensees from selling a handgun to any person under 21. Private sales are controlled by state law, so if your state law permits, he could buy a handgun legally from you or someone else in the state. Check state and local laws, though; many states have the same restrictions as federal law.

I second the advice to NOT get sucked into a "straw man" purchase; that way lies trouble.

Jim

 

[GregGry]

948.60(2)(b)
(b) Except as provided in par. (c) , any person who intentionally sells, loans or gives a dangerous weapon to a person under 18 years of age is guilty of a Class I felony.

Ok since he is 19, then I guess I could legaly loan him a pistol on a range, since I see no mention of 18+

It does not apply to private sales. In many (most?) states, anyone over 18 can own a handgun. Check the gun laws in your state for the ownership age and then check the local papers for folks selling guns.

Ok thats what I have heard before. As far as I can tell there is no state law in Wisconsin that says someone thats 19 years old can't own a handgun. I know he can't buy from a FFL. I didn't want to tell him he could buy from private party, and then have that be illegal.

I second the advice to NOT get sucked into a "straw man" purchase; that way lies trouble.

Trust me, I am not going to do anything illegal. If I was going to do something illegal, I wouldn't be here asking for advice on how my friend can legaly purchase a firearm.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I did buy a handgun for my nephew who cannot yet buy one. However, it was a legitimate gift that I paid for myself and then put into his grandfather's name until he is old enough to put it in his name.

 

[kirkcdl]

As far as Federal law goes,the way I understand it,under 21 can own all the handguns he/she wants,they just can't buy one through a dealer.As far as buying from private parties,state law prevails.He can also be gifted a handgun and become the legal owner...However...make sure in any encounters he/she might have with Law Enforcement Officers that he/she understands the officer may not know this,and will probably act on the side of caution,that is,arrest and confiscate.Just be prepared for that possibility...

 

[GregGry]

Ok thanks for the information.

The only thing I don't understand, is the ammo issue. I know that he legaly can't buy ammo from a FFL dealer. Since any place around here that sells ammo also is a FFL dealer, I don't see how it would be possible for him to buy ammo without having his parents buy it for him..

 

[cncguns]

Possession
No state permit is required to possess a rifle, shotgun, or handgun. It is unlawful for a minor (a person under 18) to go armed with a handgun or for any person to sell, lend, or give a handgun to a minor. This does not apply to target shooting when the minor is under the supervision of an adult. It is unlawful for any person under 16, unless accompanied by a parent or guardian, to have in his possession or control any firearm. Persons between the ages of 14 and 16 who have a firearms safety certificate are exempt and may possess a firearm while alone. Those with a safety certificate who are between 12 and 14 may possess while accompanied by a parent or guardian.

This is a direct quote of the Wisconsin Possession Law, Hope it helps?

 

[Car Knocker]

GregGry,

I don't believe that there is a federal law that would prohibit any adult from buying handgun ammo and giving it to an underage person who can legally own a handgun.

I know that he legaly can't buy ammo from a FFL dealer.

To clarify, a person between the age of 18 and 21 can legally buy ammunition for a rifle or shotgun (unless state law precludes). If he possesses a handgun-caliber rifle, it is legal for him to buy ammo for it (a Camp-9 carbine, for example, or a HighPoint .40 carbine).

 

[GregGry]

Ok thanks again. I messed up and didn't include handgun ammo in that previous post. I know rifle ammo can be bought without a issue by someone under 21.

 

[Sunray]

"...can LEGALLY let him use a pistol of mine while on the range..." Sure. He's there as your guest. You just can't buy a handgun for him. You're not doing that anyway. WI says no firearms for under 18's without mom or pop being there. Your buddy isn't under 18. No big deal. You have to deal with Federal law too though.
Isn't it odd how governments will happily enlist an 18 year old for military service, but won't let the same 18 year old drink or own a handgun?

 

[phonesysphonesys]

It seems you are missing the point. His parents do not want him to have a handgun PERIOD. I would stay far away from this situation. I would advise him to wait until he is 21 and then he can do as he likes. It also keeps your butt out of a sling. Take him shooting and let him use your stuff.

Semper Fi

 

[trainwreck100]

The two things you could do would be to look at the NRA-ILA's website, they have state by state laws, or you could go to the sheriff's office or range where you'd be shooting and ask what would happen if you did what you're describing...since you own it, and he only gets to play at the range, I see no problem with it...but things are different out here where the range is the wheat field outside the back door.

Greg

 

[GregGry]

His parents originally agreed that they would buy him a handgun, provided he stored the gun someplace other then the house. I told him I wouldn't want a firearm that I couldn't have in my posession at all times. Realitically I will probably just tell him to wait, and that he can use mine on the range.

 

[kd7nqb]

Nothing wrong with it

In most states you can legally transfer it to him after purchasing. Also I am *not* advocating this but if he orders ammo online UPS puts a little ID required sticker but rarely if EVER cards.

 

[MachIVshooter]

In most states you can legally transfer it to him after purchasing.

That's called straw purchase and carries a hefty federal sentence.

Only way he could do this would be to gift it, but there can be no exchange of currency, goods or labor here.

That said, if WI law does not specifically prohitbit 18 and up from possession, he can buy one privately. This can be a hazy area, as whether it was a private purchase or a straw purchase is very open to interpretation; the primary factor distinguishing the two being the amount of time the origianl purchaser owned the firearm. If he had it for 7 years, it was clearly private party sale. But if he had it for 7 days, it would likely be prosecuted as a straw purchase.

 

[Eightball]

Is there any way that he can have a pistol of his own?

Yes. If whatever handgun is given to him as a gift, it is perfectly legit. Buying one for someone who can't is a straw purchase. If there's something in your collection he enjoys, and you want to give it to him, you can--then go buy something else.

There are no federal laws that say someone between 18 and 21 cannot use/own/operate a handgun; the only laws on the books pertain to persons under the age of 18. HOWEVER, he cannot purchase the pistol or ammunition legally, unless it happens to be for a lever-action (hey, revolver ammo is common) or other longarm.

Tread carefully. I was one of the people to have a revolver given to me at 19, but it was not purchased for me specifically. Its one of those questionable loop hole/grey areas in the law.

 

[salvador31c]

Oh Yes Loop holes in the system. if in your area one can own a hand gun at the age of 18 it is my understanding said person can purchase a hand gun from a private party but not a ffl dealer as federal law states. the ammo is a whole other problem

if he orders ammo online UPS puts a little ID required sticker but rarely if EVER cards.

but there are ways around that

When i first wanted a handgun at the age of 18 i did some research asking many police officers and checking as your doing for local laws and found out that i could own and buy a handgun from a private party to my dismay many folks didnt want to sell to me and my mother said no and my father has a slight blemish in his record so when i did find a person to sell me a Handgun leagally i paid a nice private party mark up to say as i still do


Do check local laws before moving forward

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Why not get a cool rifle--like say an AR-15---which he can legally own---shoot it and use it in the next year while he saves up for a pistol when he can legally own it too???

 

[TX1911fan]

If the law in that state allows 18 year olds to own handguns, you certainly can sell him one of yours, right? A straw purchase is only if you make a purchase for someone who is not legally permitted to own one. If it is legal for him to own one, then how would your selling a handgun to him be a straw purchase (assuming there are not other reasons he is not permitted to own it).

Now, if you are going to buy the gun he wants just to sell it to him, you may get into trouble with the 4473(?) form, since you have to answer "yes" to the question as to whether you are buying this for yourself or not. Let him look at your guns, and see if there is one he likes. If so, either let him use it when you guys go to the range, or sell it to him. Seems ok to me. Am I wrong?