Handgun for protection from a grizzly?

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I work in grizzly bear habitat. If I can carry a rfle I have a Marlin GG in 45-70, a 14" 12 ga pump and a BRNO 602 CRF bolt action rifle in .375 H&H with the barrel cut down to 20".

When we do fieldwork we CAN'T carry long guns due to their weight. In those circumstances I carry a Ruger SRH in .454 Casull.
 
Well I guess you could trying using BuffaloBore's "heavy" .44 mag against a grizzly.

I'm not sure what would be the more unpleasant experience - facing a charging grizzly or touching off a handgun with those rounds in it.
 
Easy to see few Alaskans here.I think if you go to say a Alaska hunting forum you will get better info.The 45/70 is a very good back-up gun and used alot and when you concider it can deliver up to 3,500 pfe with a 400+plus grain bullet,well they work.Folks have been carring handguns in Alaska and killing bears sence at least the gold rush and I dare say what many here are calling to small were not even around yet and when they came out they were called the greatest bear round you could buy.You don't protect yourself from a bear a hundred yards away you do it at 10 yards and hopefully clean yourself when done.
 
Energy does not kill, getting to the vitals is what kills
Click to expand...

There is an issue though people (board members) don't get that.......I will repeat (not being rude or snide at you at all just trying to point it out to others here on the board) People do not get it. Why do we have all these 9mm vs .45 threads, fact of the matter a brain shot to a bear IF you could get the shot should kill it, the issue is penetration. In which case a 12ga slug would be favored.

But! the OP's question was not "What round to kill a Grizzly?" it was: "Handgun for protection from a grizzly?" as pointed out earlier pepper spray was a good choice, If we were to go into handgun choices pretty much magnum calibers would be common sense, at least in my point of view.

I don't know If I helped at all of just wasted bandwidth but there is my take on it.
 
Handgun? Pepper spray? Yeah...That'll work. I doubt it. The pepper spray will just net you a pissed off bear. The handgun would be too hard to get into service let alone have minimal power to do the job... If I think I might meet a Grizzly in the mountains, I'll have a Marlin Guide in 45-70 or it's equivelant.
 
JUST A REMINDER, THE ORIGINAL QUESTION FROM THE OP:
does anyone have an opinion on a handgun that would stop a grizzly with one shot?
Click to expand...

ANSWER: (NONE! (safely))

Alaska Fish and Game, National Park Service, US Fish and Wildlife ALL advise NOT to use a handgun, but rather
1.) Pepperspray,
2.)A magnum caliber of minimum .300winmag (and who wants to go with minimums!?)
3.)12ga w/solid 3"magnum slug rounds
in that order.

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service --
Based on their investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries. A person’s chance of incurring serious injury from a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used. Proper use of bear spray has proven to be the best method for fending off threatening and attacking bears, and for preventing injury to the person and animal involved.

Me personally, I'm ALWAYS carrying Pepper spray AND the 12ga. ("convenient" pistol grip/folding stock) into the "bush" with me. It's Better for 2 legged varmits also. For Bear "hunting" I carry a .338 minimum!

You can base that recomendation on 35+years of my OWN Alaska hunting experience, PLUS listening to bear stories since the 1960's, and I grew up in Anchorage.

And with ANY GUN be mentally prepared for up to a 40yd "Death Charge". Unlikely you will DROP a Bear in it's tracks with any gun. LESS likely with the typical handgun. It occasionally happens, but rarely...with ANY gun.

I'll quote it again:
"persons encountering (surprising?) grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time."
"A person’s chance of incurring serious injury from a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used."
US Fish and Wildlife statistics.
 
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Redhawk, I didn't get my name by reading gun magazines and internet ninja posts and then spewing. If you'd spent much time in the back country and dealt with hundreds of guides and outfitters you might rethink your position. Have you ever had a grizzly tear apart an aircraft?, when you do get back with me and we might actually have something in common.
 
Good point again Bush Pilot.

As I said in and earlier post, a Grizzly can kill you in Alaska without even touching you if he trashes your inflatable raft or Airplane, and you are stuck 500miles from civilization, on FOOT! (on the other side of the Brooks, the Chugach, or Alaska ranges).

He may have just killed you, without even touching you. :(

cub1-1.gif
Not mine, but my picture.
Canvas covered aluminum frame can get torn up by Bear easily, folks, especially if there's a moose quarter inside.

Bush Pilot, what is the latest consensus on "pepperspray" amongst the guides?
Or, are the guides even using it at ALL? More luck with warning shots?
I'm getting good feedback from Fish and Wildlife, but I've been out of Alaska's bush for the last 7 years or so (stuck here in the HOT country).
I used to fly around summers (some winters) to the DEW line sites...(when I wasn't stuck in the office!)
I'm curious what the latest gossip is.

Mine: Remington700, (Pre-1964) originally chambered in .300H&H, rechambered to .300Weatherby. :)
Is anybody using the .338 lapua yet?
Also, what are you flying these days? Are you out of Lake Hood? (PM me if ya want) I'm homesick!!! I MISS floatplane noise!!!!
Pay attention Redhawk. :)
 
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Bush Pilot, no I do not have a aircraft. I am not an bush pilot, nor do I claim to be, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. But I sure know what a handgun with the right load will do to bone and flesh.

When you have 35 years of "handgun" hunting experience, come talk to me. Fly aircraft and shooting game are two different things.

I have hunted all over the United States and Canada, and have over 35 years of hunting experience, I don't read books and sit on my butt and pretend to be some big hunter or expert.

But I know what today handguns are capable of, and listening to a few people that don't have a clue about powerful handgun is a joke.

arizonaguide , I don't need your advice, I have done will without it.
You all need to get out and shoot more big bore handguns, and see what they will do. You may be surprised and actually learn something.
 
arizonaguide , I don't need your advice, I have done will without it.
Click to expand...

Who's "Will"? (and why did you do him?)

Oh, you're saying you have a "will" made out? Always a Good idea when you go Bear Hunting with a handgun.
Is THAT what they call "freudian slip"? Very applicable.

Just bustin your chops RH! it's too fun, because you are probably the exception to the rule, with lots of handgun hunting experience.
But it's sure NOT advised for "normal" handgunners. :(

Trust me RH, we'd be bustin your chops the same way if we were all sitting and drinking at any bar in Alaska! (and probably even AFTER you brought a BIG ONE down!)




Seriously though, I think I got this handguns-for-bears "shot placement" thing all figured out....
shotplacement.gif
 
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In all seriousness though RH, what is the approximate energy, volocity and caliber of the handgun you are shooting?

Give me the numbers, cuz I would like to learn something.

I'm assuming you are using a solid type of slug that will stay together, and something for penetration (not a HollowPoint).

Let's look at the numbers, you may have some points (and we've just been busting your chops)

Seriously, how does it stack up against a 12ga (which is a close range emergency only weapon)?

Here's the 12ga numbers: (w/solid slug...NOT HOLLOWPOINT)
.63 Caliber (that's 58% more actual frontal area than a .500)
HUGE 1.25oz+ projectile weight. (not sure what that is in grains, 700?)
1500+ Muzzle Volocity
3000+/- Energy

I would NOT be surprised if your handgun DID have similar numbers, but:
700 grain slug (?)
I can carry eight rounds in a tactical shotgun.
I can reload that thing pretty quickly, with selective ammo.
I can aim more acurately with the longer sight radius (may NOT be important at 10yards!)
I still have the convenience with a pistol grip/folding stock.
It's better for 2 legged trouble.
I can use it for anything from little to BIG, with more versatile ammo selection.

What are the numbers on the 454 or 500? Similar?







---------------------------NEW THREAD--------------------------------------------------
ILikeTOBleed
new member

POSTS:

Has anyone tried TAZERS for bears?

I don't think it's a good idea, so would I be "chicken" if I didn't want to use a TAZER on a Grizzly Bear?

Does anyone know if a TAZER will provide a "one shot stop" on a Grizzly bear?
What's the maximum range on a TAZER? Is that a safe distance from Bears?
If that doesn't work, What about Effectiveness of MuaiThai kicks?
I heard about one guy that kild one with a stick.

ILikeTObleed
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AZGuide, have been out of AK for a few years, when I look at some of the pics I really miss the bush and the people, they're a different breed. You were spot on about the plane, meal in a can for a boar grizzly LOL. Never discussed pepper spray with the outfitters, I don't know the consensus. I can tell you one thing, I never saw even one guide/outfitter that carried a handgun for a SHTF situation with a large bear. I used to pal around with a brown bear guide in southeastern, he carried a 375 H&H and said he felt undergunned when looking for a wounded bear, don't blame him. You're right about one thing AZG, there isn't a better sound than a plane powering up.

Redhawk, you and I have a comparable amount of hunting time, that's not the discussion. I don't believe I said a handgun can't stop a bear, under the right circumstances it surely can. I read the OP's question as to the use of a handgun in an emergency, I stand by my original statement.

Good hunting Redhawk, Bush Pilot
 
Good stuff BP!

I'm getting curious about the .338 Lapua...take a look at some of those numbers. Or some of the new ultra magnums.
Up around 5000lbs of energy, and good flat trajectory/volocity. :cool:
The problem with the .50BMG is it makes too darn big of a hole in the Bear Rug.
And that Barrett's kinda spendy.
:cool:
 
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While fishing in Alaska on the Russian River this past June.....I got the crap scared out of me when the biggest damn black bear I have ever seen, came up to the river bank across from me at about 50 feet.
There were literaly hundreds of people fishing, many armed with handguns. My 12 gauge pump (1 double aught round followed by 5, 3 inch magnum slugs), was on the river bank....yep I am a dumb ass....and I will not go out without a handgun on my chest ever again.
Interesting enough...the "tour-ons" just looked and gaped, while the regular's started yelling.....the bear then retreated.
Still cant figure out what handgun to carry.....probably leaning towards a ruger .44 mag...rugged, and reliable.
But sure would/could use some direct suggestions.
 
Do ya feel lucky?

I guess after all...it boils down to the SIZE and ANGER of the Bear.
750-1000lbs charging from the riverbank: pepperspray, .300magnum, 12ga.

.338(minimum) for me...on ALL bears...if I get a chance to choose.
12ga/pepperspray in the bush with me always.

Just put a pistol grip/short sling/short barrel on that 12ga.
00, followed by slugs is excellent...(at riverbank ranges).


"A .300-Magnum rifle or a 12-gauge shotgun with rifled slugs are appropriate weapons if you have to shoot a bear. Heavy handguns such as a .44-Magnum may be inadequate in emergency situations, especially in untrained hands."-Alaska Dept of Fish and Game


"Based on investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries. A person’s chance of incurring serious injury from a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used. Proper use of bear spray has proven to be the best method for fending off threatening and attacking bears, and for preventing injury to the person and animal involved."-U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
 
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500 Mag

440 gr. Hard cast gas checked bullet at 1800 fps = 3165 fpe.

500 gr. bullet at 1600fps = 2842 fpe

700 gr.bullet at 1250 fps = 2429 fpe

arizonaguide, your math is off on the frontal area. No where near 58%bigger.

A 1 1/4 oz slug is 546.875 gr. 1454 fps = 2564 fpe Right off the box of slugs

A 1 oz slug is 437.5 gr. 1600 fps = 2484 fpe
 
The 500 Mag has heavier bullets, faster velocity, and a better bullet design for better penetration.
Lots of energy for the energy crowd. :what:
 
Physics doesn't lie! ...Big 500mag handgun similar to 12ga for close range!

Thank you Redhawk.

So, that WOULD indicate that your 500mag would have similar physics to the 12ga!

That dang thing IS a beast!!!

I owe you an appology for not taking the time to look up the info on the .500, before busting your chops on it so much (but it was just too fun!)

Like I said, it's just that since the 1970's we've been hearing the .44magnum touted as the end-all for grizzly bear, (my gut still tells me it's to small) and what nobody seems to believe is that it's a crap shoot with ANY weapon at close range...considering you can hit them with a .375, and they'll still often charge 40yards.
(and I'm talking 750-1000lb bears)

So, since I can admit when I'm wrong I will! I agree that with those numbers, a .500 works out to be similar EMERGENCY GUN as a 12ga (in fact almost exactly)! So, would be (maybe)okay at close ranges (similar to a 12ga.).

But, if you are NOT experienced with years of actual Handgun Hunting like Redhawk, PLEASE do not think you can hunt big Grizzly's with a handgun. (especially anything less than a .500 or .454 numbers as above). I still don't like those .475 Linebaugh numbers, and I'll bet the .44mag is about the same.

Even the old Alaska Hunting Guides will tell you a .338 is just about minimum for a "safe" (there really is no such thing) Grizzly Bear Hunt.

Next time I go to the Russian River (assuming I can find a parking place) I'm bringing Pepperspray, a .500magnum (in place of the 12ga), and a TAZER!!!

Of course everyone knows that the .500mag is just to intimidate the other fishermen into giving you some room to cast...(see below)
The pepperspray is for the Bears(like they could get in edgeways), and the TAZER is for the fight in the campground parking lot.

Ain't like the old time Alaska.
combatfishing.gif
 
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Hey in looking around I found some more good Bear related links:

Here's the section in the Anchorage Daily News:
http://www.adn.com/bearattacks/

Here's some pretty interesting videos:
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/bear-feeding-frenzy-bear-buffet.html

Dang it! Now I'm gonna miss Bustin Redhawk's chops! I guess I can't do that anymore when he proves he's right.
That was fun while it lasted Bro! I still wouldn't HUNT with one, but it's a good short range emergency gun.

Again, Good hunting on that Maine trip. Stay safe, and bring some PepperSpray(Hey, just a little pocket one for camp...only $15).
:cool:
 
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