has NRA brought a shall issue case for New Jersey Yet?

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The NRA probably realizes that campaigning for shall issue in NJ would be a lost cause. The anti-gunners are too well entrenched in that state.
 
Alsagr,

This is not about a political campaign.

This is about a test case to challenge the etablished practice of always denying applications for carry permits.

The reason for denial is always insufficient need for a carry permit.

Post McDonald an applicant can now list "because I want to exercise my Fundamental Second Amendment Right to bear arms "

Time for a test case.

Applicant must be willing to take a lot of flack, and when denied by the local authorities, be willing to have future handgun purchase permits be denied as a matter of course
 
"The NRA only brings cases that are slam dunk wins."

NRA = smart

When was the last time you paid a lawyer to file a case you thought you were going to lose?

Most people don't waste money either.
 
"Anyone hear of any action on this front in New Jersey?"

What does your state gun rights organization have to say on the subject? The NRA doesn't have grounds to file; they aren't a resident of NJ and haven't been harmed.
 
This is a bout a test case to challenge the etablished practice of always denying applications for carry permits.
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Yes, i fully understand that. Until folks from NJ who care about their right to self defense file a class action lawsuit against the anti-gunners who run the state; there is little that anyone can do to help them.
 
Like Heller and McDonald we need an upstanding resident to apply and get denied.

Because it will be a Constitutional case in Federal District Court it should be coordinated by an experienced and well funded professional.

The *pplicant also needs to be willing to have many details of their private life laid open to the public.

I thonk an Arab American war veteran! A petite woman who has been battered by her hisband and a member of the clergy would be perfect plaintiffs. .
 
With regard to NJ....(I live here and have the pain), whilst CCW is a tempting target there are many many more restrictions liable to sucessful challenge


The arbitrary and painful FID (Firearns Identity) card process
The arbitrary and VERY time consuming Permit to Purchase a pistol
All the nonsensical and arbitrary hangovers of the AWB, muzzle brake not "flash hider", evil adjustable stock banned, 15 round max restriction on magazines, can't buy various types of rifle etc

Each is much easier to poke at than CCW......you eat the elephant one bite at a time, build case law an progressively knock down the more oppressive laws.
 
I disagree with the last post.
Pain in the butt regulations will not be easy to take down and the cosmetic assault weapon ban is just that, cosmetics.

The way you win is to challenge an absolute denial of a right! A carry permit.

If the right to bear arms is a right!and this supreme court has said it is,the discretionary denial of that right is a viotlation of the constitution ripe for decision.
 
AirForceShooter said:
The NRA only brings cases that are slam dunk wins...
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Which is an entirely appropriate strategy at this stage in the came for post Heller/McDonald litigation. We need to win cases and set favorable precedent. Losing case isn't going to help us.

bushmaster1313 said:
...If the right to bear arms is a right!and this supreme court has said it is,the discretionary denial of that right is a viotlation of the constitution ripe for decision.
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Absolutely. So the the thing to do is make a considered judgment about in which "may issue" State we'd be most likely to get a good result. We want the first challenge of "may issue" to be a win to help with other challenges.
 
DC is a "no issue" state and that is the Palmer case waiting for summary judgment to be decided.

New jersey is a may issue state where the NJ courts have ruled that may issue means at the discretion of the chief of police and the reviewing court.

Discretion has no place with a constitutional right.

For example:
Please explain to my satisfaction why you

Want a a lawyer?
Want to remain silent?
Are entitled to due process?
Want to vote?
Want an abortion?
Want to publish, buy read that book ?
Want to bear arms?
Want to receive money when the government takes your private property?
Want to practice that religion?
 
Is there a grass roots organization in New Jersey for the advocacy of second amendment rights? I believe that often grass roots organizations are more effective & aggressive at the state level than the NRA.
 
Pain in the butt regulations will not be easy to take down and the cosmetic assault weapon ban is just that, cosmetics.
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The decision said the regulations must be reasonable, which precisely means that patently unreasonable regulations, like cosmetic-based laws, can be over-turned. Moreover, the regulations making it very difficult to obtain a pistol purchase permit or FID can be challenged as de facto denials of a right, especially in a technological day and age when background checks can be done in 10 seconds.
 
I agree that these type of unreasonable regulations are abhorent to the Constitution.

However, we do not want to be in a position where we have to argue just how unreasonable the laws are.

Black and white prohibitions of clear infringements are the way to go
 
"NRA = smart

When was the last time you paid a lawyer to file a case you thought you were going to lose?

Most people don't waste money either."

If that were the case then we never would have had Heller because the NRA didn't support that either until after the fact.
 
Daemon688 said:
...If that were the case then we never would have had Heller because the NRA didn't support that either until after the fact.
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Are we going to dredge this up again?

The NRA didn't support Heller initially because the composition of the Supreme Court at the time made a favorable result far less likely. Remember that we were playing for all them marbles, and a bad result in Heller would have been a disaster.

When the composition of the Court changed, so did the view of the NRA.
 
Hope we can stay out of court for the next couple of years.

As one very astute poster has already stated that the second amendment guarantees the right to Keep and Bear Arms, not to carry them, I’m sure that a good argument can be made that it was the framers intent that the right to carry them was implied. Or an equally good argument could be made that the right to Keep and Bear Arms means just that.

Perhaps the anti gun sentiment is dying down in the country. I’m of the opinion that it has taken a back seat to the myriad of other problems the country is working through at this time. Please never forget that those wish to limit or take away our rights to enjoy our chosen sport are very patient. How many years passed between the passage of the 1968 gun control bill and the passage of the Brady bill? Even though misguided are far from stupid.

At this time I don’t believe that it would be a good time for the NRA or any other group who represents the shooting sports to attempt any legal challenge that they are not as sure as possible they can win. One loss can do more damage than a dozen wins.
 
I have been waiting a long time for the NRA to bring a shall issue carry permit case in New Jersey where carry permit applications are ALWAYS denied.
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You will be waiting a long time. The NRA doesn't show up in litigation until someone else files a lawsuit that threatens to steal their thunder. The NRA is a Lobbying organization, not a litigation organization.
 
I live in New Jersey too. Here's how i think McDonal will pan out nationwide.

1. Each state will pass restrictions on gun owners so that each jurisdiction will conflict with another jurisdiction. This forces a case into the Supreme Court again with the court deciding what restrictions should be invalidated and those that do not infringe on the second amendment.

2. NJ will be one of those states with continuing restrictions on gun ownership rights.

3. Once the court again decided what restrictions are reasonable then NJ will have to comply with those reasonable restrictions.

4. Or scenario #2 is the congress passes legislation establishing a nationwide federal gun law for all americans. NJ has no choice but to follow the new federal act.

5. Or you have a license in another state like Florida which permits you to carry. In that case, NJ cannot deny you the right to carry a gun CCW in New Jersey. (this is iffy but I see case coming here).

6. finally, remember, when the supreme court says that you have a fundamental right to a firearm, that means that any restriction must pass "strict scrutiny" which is very hard. In other words, any restrictions must be absolutely needed a much higher standard that just a raionale basis.
 
A point alluded to, above: Is there any significant state RKBA group in New Jersey? Texas has the TSRA, which is active and potent. Georgia, similarly, as do other states.

A better question than focussing on the NRA would be to ask about the other four national-level organizations as well...
 
I asked about the NRA because I think the NRA was involved in a companion case to McDonald.

It will take a professional organization to fund and coordinate with a top lawyer the exhaustion of administrative remedies needed to prrvail in a 2nd Amendment challenge in New Jersey
 
oldbear said:
As one very astute poster has already stated that the second amendment guarantees the right to Keep and Bear Arms, not to carry them, I’m sure that a good argument can be made that it was the framers intent that the right to carry them was implied. Or an equally good argument could be made that the right to Keep and Bear Arms means just that.
Click to expand...


Dictionary said:
bear    [bair] bore or ( Archaic ) bare; borne or born; bear·ing.
–verb (used with object)

12. to carry; bring: to bear gifts.
Click to expand...


Bear = Carry
 
NJ grassroots

The only grassroots organization I know of is the NJCSD (NJ Citizens for Self Defense).
BacSi
 
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