Have you ever used your sidearm in self defense?

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Somebody got shot for Yahooing beer!? That's a damn shame.

I sure hope these guys were armed and dangerous criminals because most of the time, kids that do this are underage and just trying to get a little alcohol.

I mean, shooting someone to protect yourself or others is ok... but shooting someone for stealing beer!??! That's insane.
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What? Is stealing that common in your area?
 
Plenty of cases where a gun would have come in handy but we have this great law in Illinois that denies citizens from CCW permits.

I've been the victim of several road rage scenarios...let's make it 4...granted 2 out of the 4 times I flicked the driver off because they sucked at driving...but the other 2 were unprovoked.

Several other times when I worked in a metro area and had to walk to my car in a dimly lit parking deck every night...many confrontations with deranged, drunk and stoned bums...

Does anyone know if it's legal to keep an unloaded handgun in it's case underneath the driver or passenger seat? Someone give me the low down on
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You need to go to the ISP website and print off their gun law fact sheet. After you print that up...go to cabelas or bass pro and buy yourself a locking gun case. I have a pistol case with the regs printed off inside the case. The case locks and actually has a steel cable that runs around my car seat and secures the gun case to your car. You can carry an UNLOADED pistol in your vechicle. Are you ready for this...according to the Illinois state police (ISP) it is LEGAL to carry inside the locked case your ammo.

I carry a Rock Island 1911 with two loaded mags inside my vechicle at all times. The printed regs are with me and the case is locked as well as locked to my seat post.

Illinois state police fact sheet. http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm
What constitutes a legal "case" for transporting a firearm?
The Criminal Code refers to "a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container." However, the Wildlife Code is more specific, defining case as "a container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun or bow and arrow device which completely encloses such gun or bow and arrow device by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened with no portion of the gun or bow and arrow device exposed."

How do I transport a firearm through an Illinois community with an ordinance that prohibits firearms or handguns?
Illinois' Unlawful Use of Weapons law does not preempt local ordinances from banning firearms. Persons carrying or transporting firearms through such communities could be subject to local firearm ordinances. It is recommended that you contact local authorities regarding their firearm ordinances.

If a non-resident is coming to Illinois to hunt and would like to bring their firearm, how do they legally transport it?
Non- residents must be legally eligible to possess or acquire firearms and ammunition in their state of residence. It is recommended that, in order to be in compliance with all statutes, non-residents transport all firearms:
Unloaded, and enclosed in a case, and not immediately accessible or broken down in a nonfunctioning state.

Is it legal to have ammunition in the case with the firearm?
Yes, so long as the firearm is unloaded and properly enclosed in a case.
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I have pointed a firearm 3 times in my life at another person who was in the process of committing a crime against myself or someone else. In at least one case the other guy was a drug addict who was about to go ballistic on me. I never had to shoot, though. Each time, the other party was warned away without a shot. It infuriates me when people say that guns are useless for preventing violence.
 
I have stories but the BGs always won.

I live in Europe and ccw is illegal here.

You guys have no idea how fortunate you are.
 
I mean, shooting someone to protect yourself or others is ok... but shooting someone for stealing beer!??! That's insane.
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That's an opinion. Not mine. They get away with beer this time, cash the next, and the counter guys life after that. Unchecked, they always get worse. Always! Especially if it is my property that is being stolen.
+1 for the LEO, he needs a raise.

Yes, 35 years ago. I have used my weapon to protect my family. At home, at 3AM. Bad guys will take your property and\or your life, and never lose a seconds sleep. You need to be prepared to do the same to them, only do it first because you never know what's in their heart, if anything.

It's not easy, but I would do nothing different today if (God forbid) it ever happened again. The only difference? I use a bigger caliber and hollow points now. My wife is now armed as well. Lessons have been learned, bad guys are not your friends, don't treat them with respect or restraint. They are there to hurt you. Don't let them.
 
I have and it was a bad experience. I fired on an attacking dog, and put it down, (in small town) I called the Police non emergency line, while others were calling 911 ... some crazy guy is shooting his gun. Police show up with guns drawn and order me down. It took some time to get it all sorted out, they confiscated my weapon. It took a few weeks to get it back.

I probably could have made a huge issue of the deal... I was just glad to get my weapon back and not thrown in jail.

s
 
Only once. I was at home and still awake watching television in my bedroom at around 2am. I heard someone breaking in threw the sliding glass doors in the family room and quickly grabbed my AK. I snuck into the room aimed and then flipped on the light. Turns out it was my roommates drunk friend trying to retrieve a guitar he had left at the house without waking us. Very glad I didn't pull the trigger.
 
I never shot a guy for a beer run (I'm a Circle-K vet too) but I did whack a guy with a mop handle.
 
every day I cary it I use it in sd. Granted it might be a static display but you never know when you will need it.
 
reading this thread i thought id share. working at a pizza delivery place that stops taking orders at 3am you see all kinds of things.

The worst one ended w/ me drawing and unloading my sig 9mm. If i tried to give the play by play i would end up writing a book so ill basically say that i realized that the delivery was a setup when i got there and was charged by 3 highschool football players from around the house i was delivering to. I was carrying on my hip and immediately put my right hand on my holster and took up a draw stance. They broke from there run at a decent distance and proceeded to act like it was their delivery at first i wanted to believe them but as they talked to me and acted quiet odd trying to come up w/ the money for it i slowly backed myself to my car and tried to keep a pleasant conversation w/ them as i told them i had to leave since they couldnt come up w/ the money the first guy gave a verbal command to attack and started at me w/ a big smile on his face and started swinging at me. My senses were primed at that point but i was still trying to think of a way out of there while the guy directly was coming at me, i had already w/o thought put out my right hand to keep him at bay and he wasnt landing anything substantial when i was blindsided in the back of the head by one of the others and i suddenly didnt know what up or down was. I started screaming at the top of my lungs for help while i had apparently rolled off the front of the hood of my car that i had positioned at my back so i could keep them in front of me visually and was now on the ground moving franticly away from them while still sustaining constant blows. While i was screaming for help my thoughts about the entire situation were very clear and i knew they knew i was armed and still decided to attack me and that there was nobody around to heed my calls for help in time. At the point i decided to draw down on them i was on my right side with my pistol between me and the ground. I got my hand down to my pistol somehow and rolled off my gun pulled and shot, at first just to get them off me hoping them hearing the shots would garner a flight reaction from them. I probably shot at least 6 times before they stopped pummeling me and turned tail and ran to the car that was at the corner waiting for them. I fought myself back to my feet as soon as I could firing untill empty. The reports I have recieved have been hazy but from what I have heard from somone I know who turned out to know them I hit 1 of them 6 times and I would have never know it they all ran like able bodied unscathed people to the getaway car where I also was told the driver was knicked w/ a round. After they speed off I pulled out my phone and called 911 while on the phone w/ the operator a resident came outside w/ a shotgun inquiring what had just happened and i ID'd myself and he stayed w/ me pointing out another car riding by w/ the occupants trying to hide while passing by (crouching down in the back). That and the 911 operator saying something I cannot remember made me then walk to my car and reload from the spare mag i had in the center console.

Eventually city cops showed on the scene which was suprising because I was out in the county. And I was taken to the hospital. It was there as i was being treated for the ass beating I just recieved I learned that I had actually hit 1 of them and that he was under the knife and might not make it.

Now hopefully the details I have shared will make the points im about to make about what i learned make sense.

1)I now carry a .45 instead of the 9mm and that wont change. Accuracy helps yes I wont deny that, but in the storm while the boats rocking its rough and you might not know if you're gonna see another day. I fired several shots while still being hit and I now know some of them landed and didnt phase them at 1st and seeing them run full tilt like nothing was wrong I honestly didnt think I hit anything.

2) I carry a 2nd mag on me. I heard from my father once why this was a good idea but i took it in passing not as faith. The mag in the gun is for the threat. The 2nd is for the people still there afterward that dont appreciate your actions. You never know what might come of what and these guys were performing a gang initiation where u had to beat and rob someone to gain membership and the 2nd car was filled w/ the guys i just shot at buddies.

This is a very abbreviated account of the incident and ive already written alot, hope this sheds some light on people choices on how to protect themselves. Also im not Dorian, he linked me the thread knowing what ive been thru and i asked if i could post using his account, he (Dorian) also bought me the sig, the holster and the spare mag.
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Wow. Thanks for sharing that.
 
I had a man assault my mother and then charge me with a screwdriver. when I heard the commotion between the guy and my mom, I retrieved her handgun and stuck it in my waist band. soon as I got to them he turned with the screw driver and came after me. I backed up fast as i could until I hit the front door. I then drew the gun and he stopped dead in his tracks, moved away from me and grabbed the phone and he called 911. needless to say after 2 police reports telling you exactly what I said above, I spent 2 days in jail and was charged with aggrivated menacing. But when I showed the prosecutor my evidense he quickly dismissed that charge BUT...Gave me the choice to save $3000 and my time in court if I'd plead no contest to a disorderly conduct, which I reluctantly did. I now have lost all respect for the Norwalk Ohio police department and prosecutors. You might even say I hate their guts. lol I used to want to be a cop, funny this would change that and make me hate them all.

Anyway thats the only other time I used a gun in defense.

I did have a trespasser who threatened me when I confronted him about being in my yard. He got lippy, I got a shotgun, he left :D
 
Recently recalled a minor incident that occurred about 25 years ago when I was working as a truck driver. I saw a couple of teenagers on an overpass dropping rocks (maybe large "dirt clods") on 18 wheelers passing beneath them. I slowed to about 40 MPH and at about 100 yards I made eye contact with the two boys and extended my arm out the window so they could clearly see the S&W Model 39 in my hand. They dropped whatever they had been holding and stepped back from the railing as I drove under the bridge without incident.

Before cell phones so I couldn't call the cops. Yes, I would have fired at them had they tried to drop rocks on my vehicle. I consider that to be at the very least assault with a deadly weapon and maybe attempted murder. About a year ago here in Little Rock a woman was killed when some idiot kids dropped a rock through her windshield from a freeway overpass. They were convicted of manslaughter.
 
I have drawn once in my 6 years of ccw.
It was back in 2004,(i was 22 at the time)I was with my getting lunch with my mom and on the way back in a shady part of town a guy in a honda starts yelling about us having cut him off.we ignored it at first until he blocked the road infront of us with his car.he gets screaming and pulls a baseball bat,i get out and reach for my sig p220.As soon as he saw my gun he got back in his car and sped off.Havn't had to draw since.
 
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Four times over about 40 years. Each time I did not fire, fortunately displaying the firearm was enough to chase off the bad guys. One of those incidents though it was a friend. I was living in his duplex at the time and he of course had a key. He was going fishing and wanted to borrow my stuff but forgot to call the night before so 3AM he enters the apartment to sneak it out of my closet without waking me. Not a smart thing when he knew I had a 45ACP.
 
Here in AZ...

This addresses two issues faced by people who carry. It will also hopefully shed some light on at least one state's view of "brandishing" a firearm.

The following is a summary of some laws just passed in AZ.

114 / SB 1243 / §13-421 / Defensive display of firearms protection

"Defensive display of a firearm" means: 1 - Verbally telling someone that you have a firearm or can get one; 2 - Exposing or displaying a gun in a way that a reasonable person would understand means you can protect yourself against illegal physical or deadly physical force; and 3 - Placing your hand on a firearm while it is in your pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.

Defensive display is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe physical force is immediately necessary to protect yourself against another person's use or attempted use of unlawful physical or deadly physical force. A defensive display is not required before using or threatening physical force, in a situation where you would be justified in using or threatening physical force.

Defensive display is not justified if you intentionally provoke the other person, or if you use a firearm in the commission of a serious offense or violent crime (defined in §13-706 and §13-901.3).

This important new law clarifies that a proper defensive reach for or announcement of firearm possession is an acceptable element in the continuum of self defense, and should not be charged as a crime. Improper display of a firearm can be anything from a class 1 misdemeanor (e.g., disorderly conduct) to a class 3 felony (e.g., aggravated assault). It also helps balance out the problematic and arbitrary "threatening exhibition" of a gun allegation that prosecutors can make in charging a felony as a "dangerous offense" (§13-702 and 704). The threat of this extra charge can be used to coerce a plea agreement, and now this is balanced with a specified stipulation of proper display of a gun without firing at a potential assailant.


SB 1449 / Retroactive self defense (Harold Fish law)

In certain cases, "Laws 2006, chapter 199 applies retroactively... regardless of when the conduct underlying the charges occurred."

The state enacted amendments in 2006 to make it clear that, if a person claims self defense, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant acted without justification (the appropriate "innocent until proven guilty" standard). One of the laws amended, which had been quietly slipped in by prosecutors without review ten years earlier, forced a defendant to prove innocence, the exact opposite of what American laws should be (it made you guilty unless you could prove your innocence, a tyrannical standard). Part of these changes became known as the Castle Doctrine -- you can stand your ground if attacked, intruders in your home are a legally recognized threat, and self defense was to receive robust protection under the law.

The new rules were supposed to protect people in a predicament like Harold Fish, a school teacher with a clean record out hiking in May 2004. He was attacked by a homeless known troublemaker with violent dogs on a forest trail outside Payson. Mr. Fish, who survived by shooting his assailant three times in the chest at close range, was at first released in what appeared an obvious self defense, but was then attacked by the county attorney, in a trial that reeked of unfairness.

The legislature is here making it clear that people are entitled to the full protection of the law, and the public's safety will likely be enhanced with this small measure that serves notice on the powers that be. Other problems, like failure to fully inform juries, bad jury instructions, exclusion of exculpatory or illuminating evidence, exorbitant cost and inordinate timeframes, and other potholes in the criminal justice system remain to be fixed.

http://www.gunlaws.com/AGOG2009.htm
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I've never drawn in a situation where only my life was at stake. I was once at a cookout/atv ride with several friends. This was in a very public area that is owned by a local ATV club but is available free of charge to the public. We have had pig roasts, out door concerts, just a really fun time in the summer months there.

Well a group of 5 or 6 local drunks show up and decide that they don't want a responsible group of 10-15 adults having a good time in the vicinity of their public intoxication. One decided to come over and tell us to saddle up and ride, we of course refused. A fight is then picked with one of our members who easily goes to the brick oven and made pizza with intoxicated redneck 1's face. Police are called and harassment and physical altercation is reported.

Intoxicated redneck 2, who happens to be 1's brother removes a Husqvarna chainsaw from the trunk of their car (they somehow managed to get a Crown Victoria up onto our 4x4 trail) and begins to crank it up. He actually screamed something in reference to Friday the 13th or Nightmare on Elm Street to 'frighten us'. When he got his chainsaw started and came across the field towards us he found that he was looking down the barrel's of several makes and models of handguns. I drew my .38.

The individual ran into the woods with his chainsaw where he revved the motor and screamed obscenities at us. At this point his other drunk friends weren't saying much and were sitting in their vehicle. Thankfully the cops showed up before the Chainsaw Massacre began, and the other drunks were arrested for PI and whatnot. We didn't see the guy that ran the rest of the night.
 
After a long day at the range I sat down to clean guns in the living room while watching TV. I live in a 3 story town home at the time in Ft.lauderdal ,FLA. I heard a noise outside in the fenced in patio, opened the slider door on the second floor to see a person trying to break in to the garage via the downstairs slider, I grabber the first gun not in parts from the coffee table and racked one and went to patio, I hollered loud, I have a gun ,you need to get out of here. He also had a gun and shot at me from the top of the fence up to the slider and shattered the door, I returned fire striking him along the right side rib area. he fell outside the otherside of the gate into the road,I called Ft Lauderdale police,waited 20 minutes until they arrived.Then they found the man in the park across from my house ,took him to the hospital, and spent the next 20 minutes telling me how bad it was for me to return fire and how I should of just went inside and waited for the police.Impounded my gun, no charges filled and had to petition the court to get it back 3 weeks later. A real pain in the ass,but have no issue doing it again.
 
nosliw said:
"No I didn't call the cops. What good would it have done?"

get it on record with the local PD. NCVS and UCR surveys might sway more funding towards a department that needs more patrol at night if that kind of thing happens frequently.
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Or, it might get you a ride downtown and a chance to challenge the PD on
2nd and 4th amendment rights.

I'd say its a judgement call best left to the doer.
 
Although I am a LE two of my situations were off duty
1. In a convienience store when a redneck type starts harrassing a black customer and hitting him in the face. I walk up as he pulls his arm back to really ring the guys bell,grab his elbow from the rear and sling him across the room onto the floor. Guy gets up and charges me and I sweep my shirt back and grab the grip on my 1911 and he skids to a halt. He starts to leave and we tussle and he breaks away gets into his buddy's mustang and split. Gave the SO the license and he was arrested a few miles away.
2. CHP Officer alone midnight made a felony stop across the Street from me I identified myself and he had me cover the Subject until he could cuff him. 2 minutes later cover arrived
3. On duty get a call of glass breaking, woman Screaming, call had been held 5 minutes as all units busy. Got there with no backup Confronted rapist who charged me and attempted to stab me, blocked thrust by striking him in the sternum with my flashlight as I backpedaled to open the distance between us but he kept chargingand the second time he came up with the knife I jabbed his sternum again, pulled my model 15 and fired one shot with my triggerguard against my hip killing him on the spot. It was found he had raped & sodomized a 56 year old woman and punched her 6yr old grandchild before attacking me. He had been drinking Tequila and sniffing paint.

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Hi there, new here,
Unfortunately once and it was lethal... had no choice, and am lucky to be typing here.
Other times had happier endings with less force: using only vibes, making weapon known, and once or twice draw to the side.
The irony is that i have had more action as a civilian than when I was a LEO, cant figure that one out.....
 
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