Help! 410 reloaders

berettaprofessor

berettaprofessor

Member
Joined
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Location
Kansas
I've done two stupid things lately. The first was buying a BCA 410 AR upper...which takes some breaking in but I'm nearly there. The second was buying a MEC and beginning to self-teach myself how to reload shotgun (I'm already experienced at pistol and rifle). Anyway, the two issues are combined in that shotshell manufacturers vary regarding how long a 2 1/2" shell actually is, The stinking BCA AR 410 mags and a second brand I bought both take 56 or 57 mm long 2.5" shells, but won't hold 58 or 59mm 2.5" shells; I had to buy a bunch of different brands to find what would cycle; turns out, the shorter ones I can find that work are all Fiocchi-made.

So, at present, I've got a bunch of Federal and Winchester AA shells that I can't use....and I don't presently have another 410 shotgun to shoot them through. I suppose buying another 410 to shot them would be one solution, but I'd like to avoid that. My question for you all; can I open the Winchester/Federal crimps, remove a few pellets, and then just re-crimp a little shorter and fire them without running into trouble?

I'd rather not break them down completely and start over reloading the hulls if I don't have to, but I also have read that shotgun reloading is VERY recipe specific and not to vary from a printed recipe. And try finding reloading recipes for Fiocchi hulls, Cheddite primers, and generic 410 wads....doesn't exist at least in the references I've got (I've got more manuals coming to search), but those are all I could find...410 shotshells and reloading components are both equally rare around here right now. I'd rather empty the Winchesters, which I understand are better hulls for reloading, and load them.
 
berettaprofessor said:
I've done two stupid things lately. The first was buying a BCA 410 AR upper...which takes some breaking in but I'm nearly there. The second was buying a MEC and beginning to self-teach myself how to reload shotgun (I'm already experienced at pistol and rifle). Anyway, the two issues are combined in that shotshell manufacturers vary regarding how long a 2 1/2" shell actually is, The stinking BCA AR 410 mags and a second brand I bought both take 56 or 57 mm long 2.5" shells, but won't hold 58 or 59mm 2.5" shells; I had to buy a bunch of different brands to find what would cycle; turns out, the shorter ones I can find that work are all Fiocchi-made.

So, at present, I've got a bunch of Federal and Winchester AA shells that I can't use....and I don't presently have another 410 shotgun to shoot them through. I suppose buying another 410 to shot them would be one solution, but I'd like to avoid that. My question for you all; can I open the Winchester/Federal crimps, remove a few pellets, and then just re-crimp a little shorter and fire them without running into trouble?

I'd rather not break them down completely and start over reloading the hulls if I don't have to, but I also have read that shotgun reloading is VERY recipe specific and not to vary from a printed recipe. And try finding reloading recipes for Fiocchi hulls, Cheddite primers, and generic 410 wads....doesn't exist at least in the references I've got (I've got more manuals coming to search), but those are all I could find...410 shotshells and reloading components are both equally rare around here right now. I'd rather empty the Winchesters, which I understand are better hulls for reloading, and load them.
Click to expand...
I would break one down and see if there is a compadable wad that gives you back the small amount of room you need and go from there. I'm guessing you may also have to trim the hull for proper closure after reducing wad height....
 
Sell the gun or sell the shells and buy what you need.

I'd buy a shot gun if I wanted a shot gun and use the shells.
 
I think Grafs has Fiocchi 410 2.5” in stock right now. Probably be easier to buy a flat of that, then sell off the stuff that doesn’t cycle. Also, are there other magazines that might feed slightly longer shells?
 
Thank you AJC1. I don't know about comparable short wads but I'll look; from what I'm reading, almost all 410 wads are the same design. And I didn't think about having to shave down the case....that could prove difficult.

Jack Ryan and Goon, I think you both missed the point. Jack Ryan, as I stated, I don't really want "another" shotgun. The purpose was to expand my AR-style family and perhaps shoot slugs from it...eventually. Goon, I'm trying to learn shotshell reloading....that's part of the fun. If there are longer magazines, I haven't found them yet, and I've looked.
 
Still trying to wrap my head around an AR shotgun, smooth bore and all, but that aside, this seems solvable.

Assuming a 410 is not entirely different than others, the final overall length can be adjusted somewhat by the crimp. A crimp starter that is set too deep ends up with swirls at the tips of the folded crimp. That has the affect of making the hull shorter. One can also lower the punch to deepen the crimp, provided you have interior room in the hull. That can be adjusted by selection of powder.....dense ball types vs. fluffy flake powders.......and wad. Not all wads have same length. Some shorter than others. But again, end result is to reduce fill of the contents so crimp can be set lower which shortens the hull.

Removing small sized shot may be an option to allow you to crimp deeper. Larger shot....not so much. Even in larger hulls like 12 gauge, once you get up to a certain size, shot no longer stacks evenly when dropped in randomly. Once you get up as large as #4 buckshot, stack patterns begin to emerge. No doubt same thing occurs in 410. I suspect one sweet spot would be whatever shot size will stack in twos inside the wad cup. The other final solution is something like #000 buckshot or whatever shot that is same diameter as interior of wad cup, and stack in single file as many as will fit and still allow you to use a deep crimp.

As for loading slugs in a 410 hull to be fired thru an AR platform in volume, one could, but not sure why you would want to when better, easier, cheaper options are available.
 
To the OP, forgot to ask, but what is your exact load now? Powder and how much; primer, wad and what size shot? Does gun reliably cycle with any load or does it require some oomph?

Quick review of 410 threads on shotgun site, experienced guys actually have best luck with Fiocchi hulls, as far as longevity goes, so if those work best for length, you may be in luck. Load data can be found or worked up.

Other hulls.....even Win and Rem can be one and done. Guys are reporting split hulls.

You may be closer to your goal than you know.
 
berettaprofessor: Are you saying that the BCA magazines won't take standard commercial Win-AA 410 shells ?...which are 59mm out of the box
(I measured them)
If so, That sounds like a serious manufacturing blunder

BTW: Your issues aren't with the MEC-600JR.
Mine produces AA-410 reloads w/ perfect crimps... right at 58mm.
So will yours (maybe it already does) :thumbup:

- BUT -

I suppose you could take a bandsaw and a 1/10" (2.5mm) off the AA mouth/adjust the wad pressure down that 0.1" as well as the crimp closure.... no big deal.
(But did I already mention serious manufacturing blunder? )
( :cool: )




postscript: I get 8-9 reloads out of the AA 410 hulls using H110/W296
Stay away from "410" powder -- it eats hulls alive. 😵‍💫
 
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Howa; I had the opposite impression from my search; that Fiocchi was one of the worst and Winchester the best…so your impression is encouraging. I have no “load” yet. Waiting on a Ballistics Product manual to see if it has any Fiocchi hull loads; the Lyman has none. I’ll be using Claybuster cb5050 410 HS wads and Cheddite 209 primers and H110 powder but I don’t know how much powder yet.
 
.
BTW:

Three 36 caliber roundball (0.375"dia) stack perfectly in a WAA410 wad/AA-HS hull.
and are .... (drumroll please) ... 0.544oz total

Load them as such (standard 1/2oz)
 
Mehavey, not only the BCA mags but I also purchased IFC mags from Centerfire; same problem. Yes, I also measure the Win-AA at 59mm or 2.325”, while the Fiocchi are 57mm or 2.260”…just enough to make the difference.
 
Well, maybe I solved it. I took a little risk and ear and eye-protected and gloved and I put the Win-AA shell in the MEC full-crimp position and slowly squeezed. Crimp looks a little deeper, shells are 2.280” or 58mm as MEhavey said and they didn’t go off and they fit in the mag and I presume will feed.

As long as I go slow, is this safe to do, or too stupid to continue?

Thanks for the tip about the 36 caliber round ball MEhavey!
 
All "pushing down" on the case with crimp stage does is slightly swell the case.
(material's gotta go somewhere ;) )

Check that it will still chamber/extract OK
 
MEHavey said:
All "pushing down" on the case with crimp stage does is slightly swell the case.
(material's gotta go somewhere ;) )

Check that it will still chamber/extract OK
Click to expand...

Will do. Right now it fits the magazine and fits a 410 MEC go gauge. Will test soon.
 
A couple of suggestions. First, you can always call MEC and get help adjusting your press. Too, you can go on their site and get product manuals. Setting the crimp dept is a little daunting at first, but will come as second nature later on.

I know nothing about .410 barrels for AR's, but there is a shotgun community I'd suggest you join. There is all kinds of help w/ MECs as well as most anything shotgun. The High Road is good but you can get specialized help here.

www.shotgunworld.com

Shotgun Forum

A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
www.shotgunworld.com www.shotgunworld.com

You can read in the forums (drop-down menu right side) but you'll have to join to post threads. Free.
 
NMexJim, thanks for the Shotgun link. I'll join and explore.

Just fired 6 rounds that I had "recrimped"...No FTF's or FTE's after the first round, all rounds ejected at 3:00 about 4 feet out in a 1 foot circle. I may need to use a little heavier buffer. This upper still has a little problem loading the first load from the magazine (hangs up about 3/4" outside the chamber but a second short bolt cycle pops it in). But after that it feeds perfectly all by it's lonesome. Thanks for all the help everyone.

MEHavey, two questions about those 36 caliber loads; 1) Would I have to remove the choke to fire them (upper has a Winchester Invecta-type full choke)? 2) I assume this would pattern only at short distances? Any idea how far? Thanks!
 
If you measure the diameter of the stacked-.375"ball/WAA410 wad column, it's ~0.395"
Guess what the internal-diameter of a full choke 410 is... (?) ;)

As to pattern, I'll have to dig out my records (but it's pretty good out to 30-40 yards)
 
berettaprofessor said:
My question for you all; can I open the Winchester/Federal crimps, remove a few pellets, and then just re-crimp a little shorter and fire them without running into trouble?
Click to expand...

I'd rather tell my wife the clothes shes wearing make her look fat.

Reloading .410 for a semiauto is hard enough without creating even more problems.
 

Bore Sizes and Constrictions (Choke Charts) | Briley

Premium Bore Sizes and Constrictions Choke Charts which are manufactured to be the best in market with the highest quality shotgun, firearm, and rifle standards. Shop now for Bore Sizes and Constrictions at Briley, A Legacy of Shooting Innovation
www.briley.com

Briley MFG - Invector Extended Choke - .410 Bore

Invector Extended Choke - .410 Bore
www.briley.com

However, these two links now have me a bit confused.......??

@MEHavey points out a link with .015"..........................and Briley has conflicting statements........
I didn't intend to be quarrelsome, simply presenting what I found on the Briley site.......................:thumbdown:
 
Soonerpesek said:
didn't intend to be quarrelsome
Click to expand...
But it was a good call. :thumbup:
Some manufacturers may have decided to use tighter constrictions, and it's good to check-6


(But it is interesting that Briley shows different constrictions even between its own listings of 410/Full-Choke)
 
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