help decide... deer rifle for wife

[P95loser]

My wife decided she would like a rifle to go with me deer hunting. So i need help decided caliber / brand. These are the requirements...

1. She doesnt want it to kick a lot, so probably a lower powered round that is capable of taking deer.

2. Ammo needs to be common and fairly cheap.

3. Gun needs to be more than single shot, and have a relatively simple interface as she is new to shooting.

I was thinking 30/30 but if there is a better round that meets these requirements, let me know.

 

[1911 guy]

Get her a .243

The .243 is a proven performer on whitetails and is manageable for women and kids both. Accuracy is usually very good and most rifles chambered for it are light.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I second the advice about the .243. Get a lightweight rifle in that caliber and it would be as close to a perfect solution as you're going to find.

 

[miko]

Remington 7600 pump in .243

Common powerfull ammo, does not kick a lot, magazine-fed. 7.5 pounds - you do need some mass to control the kick. Pretty accurate with the fully floated barrel and solid construction.
Simple interface - simpler than bolt action or semi-auto. You do not have to take your hands off anything to operate the action, the first shot is exactly like the second one, same with extracting an unfired round. Safety, pump, trigger - can learn in a minute.
Costs less than $400 at Walmart.

miko

 

[GunGoBoom]

Yeah, the Rem pump in .243 would work. Or something like these:

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/leverAction_centerfire/336Y.htm

http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm in .243 win

the latter being a super economy choice.

 

[mustanger98]

I like to suggest the .243Winchester as much as anybody, but between that and a .30-30 levergun, those are both proven deer getters and anything bigger'll just be overkill on her shoulder for the effect on the deer. You can get .30-30 ammo anywhere. I recommend she learn to shoot with a good aperture sight system if she hasn't already. I shoot both calibers, BTW, and one of my buddies at the gunshop is a petite woman- she deer hunts with a .260Remington in a Model 7.

Hope that helps.

 

[Brian Williams]

For caliber either 243, 7mm-08, 260 rem, 357 mag, 30-30.
For Rifle in 243, 7mm-08, 260rem get a nice bolt action, Rem mod7, Win Compact Classic 70, or a Savage 10, Ruger 77 lightweight.
For a rifle in 357 a Marlin 1894c or 30-30 a Marlin 336 or win 94.

 

[Soap]

.243 bolt or .30/30 Win. I wouldn't go with a pump because the manual of arms is slightly more complex than the bolt action IMO. My wife caught on much faster with a bolt action than she did with my Benelli Nova. YMMV.

 

[miko]

I may be wrong, but how can operating a bolt action be simpler than pump - especially for a person not already accustomed to either?

With pump, you just move the left hand back and forth, without releasing anything.

With bolt, you release the right hand from the trigger, move it to the bolt, riotate the bolt up, then pull it back, then push it forward, then rotate it down, then release the bolt and try to get the same good grip as you had before - all the while balancing the rifle with the other hand.

You can really shoot the deer three-four times in one second with a pump.

miko

 

[mustanger98]

You can really shoot the deer three-four times in one second with a pump.

With regard to rifles, Win.'s M70 Classic Compact is a fine rifle. If you don't need a left handed option and you only use scopes, it's just about the perfect rifle for a .243Win. If you go with irons, you'll have to have a gunsmith set 'em up. Savage's Model 11 comes with sights on the barrel and is also chambered for .243Win.

Marlin's 336 and Win's '94 are both fine rifles in my opinion.

FWIW, for a rifle, I like levers and bolts both better than pumps. But, my sister who doesn't shoot regularly can handle lever, bolt, or pump one as well as the others.

 

[miko]

My neighbour demonstrated amazingly rapid shooting with Remington 7600 in 30-06 with 220 grain bullets - on a paper target, not deer. And 30-06 220 grain has double the kick/flip compared to .243 with 100 grain.

One should not have to shoot the deer more than once - but with pump rifle one could if one had to. Unlike deer, for self-defence, double- or triple- tapping is highly advisable. You can get 10 round mags for 7600 - steel or plastic.

Are there any lever-action shotguns other than 410?

miko

 

[Guns_and_Labs]

For the kids, I skipped the .243 for a .260 Remington or a mild 6.5x55 load. Just a wee bit more recoil and noise, but much better field performance. With a .243, I'd be worried about those raking shots, probably unnecessarily, but I've always been biased to the 6.5mm performance.

 

[MechAg94]

I suggest a lever gun in 30-30 or .357 mag. Simple to operate. I figured the .357 mag might be common to pistols she might use?

Is she interested in optics or just simple iron sights? What kind of range are you expecting her to use it for?

 

[mustanger98]

I suggest a lever gun in 30-30 or .357 mag. Simple to operate. I figured the .357 mag might be common to pistols she might use?

If you opt for .357magnum to deer hunt, to 50-100yds a 158gr or 180gr SP will probably be just as effective as a 150gr SP from a .30-30, but I'd advise not to stretch the .357 beyond that.

Is she interested in optics or just simple iron sights? What kind of range are you expecting her to use it for?

If she's interested in aperture sights, Lyman #2 tang sight is quite effective, as is Williams FP and 5D. I have the Lyman #2 on my .30-30 and have had real good results. The Williams FP and 5D will fit pre-AE Winchesters and 336 and 1894 Marlins. I don't know how her vision is, but I've found it easier to see the front sight and thus easier to hit the target with these apertures. For a new hunter, that'll be sights aplenty out to 100-150yds.

I'd advise that scopes are fine if she (or anybody else) wants one as they do give you a better look at your target, but they won't help the size of your groups and in some cases, make the shot harder to make.

 

[Strongbad]

I'm ecstatic about all of the support for the .243 here. I didn't expect nearly the outpouring for it. The 243 gets my vote too.

Also, another little gun that I've been looking at that you might be interested in is the CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62x39 (not .223 ) It's ballistically very similar to the 30/30 and more than adequate for deer at reasonable ranges. Plus the carbine comes with a single set trigger which is nice, and you'll be able to get practice ammo dirt cheap so that you or her or anyone for that matter can plink with it without breaking the bank.

 

[Soap]

I may be wrong, but how can operating a bolt action be simpler than pump - especially for a person not already accustomed to either?

With pump, you just move the left hand back and forth, without releasing anything.

With bolt, you release the right hand from the trigger, move it to the bolt, riotate the bolt up, then pull it back, then push it forward, then rotate it down, then release the bolt and try to get the same good grip as you had before - all the while balancing the rifle with the other hand.

You can really shoot the deer three-four times in one second with a pump.

The fact that the pump has two extra controls makes it more complex: the slide release and the magazine release. So now you have a gun that has a trigger, a safety, the action, a slide release and a mag release. This is inherently more difficult to master than a trigger, safety, and action. Plus, shorter people, such as women in general, do not find pump actions of any kind to be comfortable to operate when compared to say a lever, bolt, or semi.

It isn't that hard to train someone to hunt with a bolt because a fast followup shot is not needed if you are a good hunter. Of course there are exceptions but if you train the person properly, they can take a deer with a single shot easily.

And I'm not trying to be offensive but your last statement is completely absurd. 4 times in one second? If you have a timer try it with your 7600 on a paper target at 25 yards, I'm sure that it will take more than a second...and much longer (and still useless) on game.

 

[CB900F]

P95loser;

I'll throw another vote to the 6.5 X 55 Swede. I gave my son one for his 16th birthday, on a modern bolt action platform. At that time he wasn't a particularly large kid either, about 5'8" and say 125 lbs.

The thing that swung me from the .243 to the Swede was sectional density. In other words, it handles longer heavier bullets that penetrate far better than what you're going to get with a .243. The Swede has never had the reputation as a kicker either. It does, however, have a reputation for stellar accuracy. It has won 1000 yard competitions, custom guns of course, but the cartridge itself can get it done.

Because of the superior sectional density, shot placement is not as critical with the Swede. All that being said, I took two deer last year with a 6mm Remington, which uses the same bullets as the .243.

In other words, the .243 will serve the purpose. The Swede will do it better.

900F

 

[MachIVshooter]

Any decent bolt rifle in one of the following chamberings:

.243 Win., 6mm Rem., .257 Roberts, .25-06 Rem., 6.5x55, 7x57, 7mm-08.

Any of these will be fine for deer of all sizes. The .25-06 is the fastest and most potent, but recoil is still quite mild. .243 and .25-06 will be the easiest to find, both in terms of gun and ammunition. I got my sister a .280 in a Ruger M77 Mk II all-weather, but she is a fairly avid shooter and the rifle will also be used for elk. .270 and .280 are fine for deer, but more powerful than is really necessary unless hunting trophy mule deer buck's.

 

[pete f]

Has she shot much ?

If not, I would heartily suggest these items first. . .
Good ear plugs the roll up and insert foam type work really well.

Good ear muffs, muffs over plugs reduce the sound tremendously which reduces felt recoil...I know sounds nuts, but it seems to work, people properly sound attenuated report feeling less recoil.

good eye protection, makes them feel more secure shooting.

a good shooting jacket with a recoil pad or a sporting clays vest with a well padded shoulder.

Why worry about these first.? Simple. most people take the first shots with rifles in the early fall in thin jackets and often without adequate ear protection. and then either get a flinch or just decide it hurts too much to continue. good shooting equipment really helps.

then i would let her decide on the gun, go to a gun shop and let her handle a LOT of guns. if it is a shop with a lot of guns out in the open just go with her with the jacket she is going to be shooting in and let her try all she wants to handel. compacts, featherwieghts, composition stocks long action short action. let her decided. then YOU choose a good caliber in the rifle she chooses. for example, she tries all the guns in the gun shop and she likes the ruger 77 synthetic, so now you go look at the catalogue and find out it is made in 12 calibers, 5 which would work for her. .243, 7mm-08, .260 rem, .308 and 25-06. In my mind a 243 is a nice cartridge, but tends to be a little light for bigger deer if shot at a poor angle. however, if the possibility of a an antelope hunt or some fox or coyote hunting exists, then i would live with it. 25 06 is a great cartrige but loud and more than you need, but still a fine chioce. 308's have some new reduced recoil rounds that are really nice plus give you a real option on bullets for other big game. the 7 -08 is a great round and so is the 260. i would give the 7 -08 the nod. but the 260 if you can find it is a great cartrige too, the equivelent of a 6.5x55 but in a shorter case.
My choice would be the rifle she likes, in a low middle cartrige. a 25 to 28 caliber.

 

[GAMALOT]

I might get slammed for this but I would recommend a nice Semi Auto in either 243 or 308 caliber. You did not say your wife was unable to grasp a new concept and the Semi is about as simple to shoot as any and the advantage is the bulk of the recoil is taken up by the function of the action.
A 308 Winchester Model 100 kicks substantially less then my 243 Remington Bolt action.
Once she learns the safety issues of loading and unloading and the way the action functions, she will be very happy with a nice Semi Auto.
Anyone here who disagrees because the gun might be too complicated is missing the entire point of gun safety and proper instruction and training.
Give her a ruger 10/22 and watch her have a blast and fall in love with a nice plinker and then increase the caliber.
Gary

 

[Onslaught]

What about the Ruger Deerfield?

My father-in-law started my wife and her sister out on one at a VERY young age (12 I believe). As far as taking the deer goes, my next door neighbor, who has been hunting for YEARS uses nothing else because of a semi-handicapping injury, and he says that if he could use a larger caliber tomorrow, he still wouldn't swap because his experience has been very positive with the 44 magnum.

You can't GET less complicated to fire than a semi-auto...

 

[mustanger98]

Not slamming semi-autos or any individual who recommends one as I shoot 'em too some. However, in a hunting situation, a semi is good for showing the guy on the next ridge what a bad shot you are. I've actually listened to a guy rip off 5rds over on the next ridge. No, I recommend going with a bolt or lever and making a one-shot kill. You can take a semi and shoot a deer to pieces, but for what.

 

[GAMALOT]

Mustang, You make a valid point if one is to assume that all hunters who use Semi Autos are simply out to shoot up the woods.
I have hunted with my Model 100 every year since it was new in 1965 and have yet to fire more then two rounds at any deer. It is deadly accurate at 100 yards and for a 308 it has virtually no noticable recoil. Certainly a great gun for a woman who might fear the slam of recoil and flinch in anticipation.
I know my Rem. 700 in 243 hurts my shoulder after a few rounds yet the Model 100 in 308 is a pleasure to shoot.
Durring the hunting season either is fine considering the added padding from heavy coats. Durring the hot summer and in a T shirt the 700 slams.
I would think a Semi in 243 would be a fabulous gun for the wife.
Gary

 

[Onslaught]

Not slamming semi-autos or any individual who recommends one as I shoot 'em too some. However, in a hunting situation, a semi is good for showing the guy on the next ridge what a bad shot you are. I've actually listened to a guy rip off 5rds over on the next ridge. No, I recommend going with a bolt or lever and making a one-shot kill. You can take a semi and shoot a deer to pieces, but for what.

First off, I do appreciate your comments and input. I am in no way offended, nor do I feel slammed.

Several responses do come to mind...

OK, I can drive a Corvette that's capable of doing 220mph, but if i'm a responsible adult, I will do the speed limit.

Also, the Deerfield carbine, which was designed and marketed SPECIFICALLY for Deer hunting, only has a 4 round capacity.

I was reminded of the Deerfield when I read P95loser's criteria:

1. She doesnt want it to kick a lot, so probably a lower powered round that is capable of taking deer.

1. A semi-auto, pistol caliber will kick less than pretty much any other type of rifle

2. Ammo needs to be common and fairly cheap.

2. .44 Magnum is common (don't know about cheap)

3. Gun needs to be more than single shot, and have a relatively simple interface as she is new to shooting.

3. Semi-auto has a very easy interface... aim, safety off, fire... Deer falls down but gets back up... aim, fire, safety on.

Again, I agree with your logic to a point, but you don't choose a bolt-gun for hunting simply to "keep from blasting away rather than aiming". Anybody who blazes rounds at a deer rather than taking an aimed shot doesn't need to be hunting at all... Remember, just like anything else, the rifle is the tool, but it's the moron using it that determines the outcome.

 

[jefnvk]

I'll throw in a plug for my beloved Swede. I started with it at 10 or 11 or so, quite manageable then and now. May still be a bit more than what you are looking for, though.

I'd start anyone on a bolt gun, although lever gun is a good choice. If she is real sensitive to recoil, a semi may be a better choice. Reduce recoil even more.