Help me out: Tell me some more about the S&W 625 / 25 Mountain Gun

[usp_fan]

Earlier this week, in a thread about .45 colt DA revolvers, I was reminded that the Mountian Gun in .45 Colt is on my short list.

Some of you posted pictures and now I find myself reading the old posts and googling "smith mountain gun". Any thought of a light weight commander with Bobtail conversion has been moved to the back burner. I've been in the garage looking at the collection and trying to figure out what I can sell or trade (FAL anyone?). Help me out.

Post pics, stories, reviews, comments about the sick state of my mind, and perhaps most helpful, any good deals you may be aware of on these revolvers. One other thing: Stainless vs. Blued. I know about rust resistance, any other considerations? This would be a lifetime keeper and and gun that gets taken along and used.

I have a few "pet loads" for my Ruger Bisley that would work well in the 25/625 but if you have anything you've found to be exceptional...

Thanks,

--usp_fan

 

[JoeHatley]

If your Bisley loads are in the "Ruger Only" class, they probably shouldn't be used in the S&W.

I like the looks of blue, but stainless is a lot easier to clean.

Not a Mountain Gun, but this 25-5 is pretty close.


This 625 MG is one of my favorites.


I make up some moderate handloads using a 200 grain SWC cast of plated bullet, with 7.2 grains Bullseye.

Does just over 900 fps in my 6" 25-5. Accuracy has been very good.


Good Luck...

Joe

 

[Majic]

In the Mountain Guns it will be no problem, but many of the older M25s had oversized throats and some had oversized chambers. Stick with a M25-9 and newer (the problem had been corrected by then) or be willing to make bullet adjustments to compensate.

 

[Stainz]

I have a 625-7 MG, my first-ever S&W. It is a keeper. I won't put some of the loads I've tried in my Redhawk and Bisley in it, but I doubt I'll make any more of them any way... SAAMI-spec .45 Colt loads are enough for me. My original hottest load was a 255gr LSWC over 7.1 gr W231/HP-38 for a nasty 754 fps +/-24 fps SD, while my 5.5" SS Bisley would eek out 761 fps - and my 24" Puma eclipsed 1,000 fps. The revolvers had unburned powder in front of them on the bench, too. Velocities ifrom the revolvers changed by as much as 40 fps due to position, ie, shaken pointed upward vs downward just prior to firing. Changing powders helped.

With Titegroup, I get higher and more consistent velocities - with less powder. My maximum loading of 6.1gr Titegroup under a 250gr LRNFP with a separate and decent crimp, yields 850 +/- 16 fps from the 4" 625 MG and 866 +/- 14 fps from the 5.5" Bisley. A super mild 4.0 gr of Titegroup in .45 Schofield cases under the 250 gr LRNFP gives 669 +/- 9 fps from the MG. The hottest load I have used in mine has been the 200gr Gold Dot JHP bulleted Georgia Arms load, which makes 1123 +/- 8 fps from my 625 MG, albeit quite infrequently. It - and my Titegroup loads - leave the with an easily cleaned greyish soot on the muzzle, much kinder than the W231. A favorite plinker is 250gr LRNFP over 5.3 gr Titegroup yielding 754 +/- 9 fps.

Recoil is so manageable that I swapped out the rubber for Dymondwood the first week I had my MG - and ordered some #21991 stocks from S&W Accessories - great looking square conversion, although I am not as fond of checkering. I ultimately found a set of Ahrends square conversion f-g cocobolo stocks - a la the 25 MG - and they are perfect. It has a great 'grab' - and is a natural pointer. I consider it a 'fun' piece - that 5.5" Bisley SS is better suited for hotter hunting loads. Still, with a couple of those GA Arms 200gr GDJHP's and some 255gr LSWC over 6.1gr Titegroup aboard, I'd feel 'safe' just about anywhere.

Stainz

PS Like any S&W, consider a lighter hammer spring only if you can use solely Federal primers. All of my Winchester primed older loads are 'Bisley-only' - it'll pop anyone's primers!

 

[usp_fan]

I appreciate the warnings about ruger loads vs. the S&W guns. The pet load I had in mind is a very mild (and accurate) 255grn lswc over about 8grns of 231. I do have some hardcast 325grn bullets over 20 grns of 'lil gun that are thumpers! But these are clearly ruger only loads.

I was thinking about stoking the MG with the speer 260 grain Gold Dot load for carry and possibly a 255grn load at close to 1000fps for woods use.

Any leads on good deals? or things I should consider? Who makes good and affordable leather for these?

--usp_fan

 

[Onmilo]

The Model 25-7 Model of 1988 was the first .45 Colt caliber Smith and Wesson to incorporate the new tolerances in the bore, chambers and throat.
I owned one, bought it when they first became available and hands down the gun was my most accurate revolver in the caliber.
These revolvers featured a five inch heavy barrel, unfluted cylinder and a matte, parkarized type finish.
In a fit of lunacy I sold it to buy a new Colt Series 80.
Big mistake but live and learn.
I have replaced it with a Stainless 625 Mountain gun.
It is nearly as accurate and just as fun to shoot but I still and always will miss that 25-7.
If you happen to cross paths with a 25-7 and the gun is for sale, buy it, don't hesitate and be prepared to pay what the seller is asking, there will be no discount and the gun will be worth whatever reasonable amount the seller wishes.
(Don't get silly, the guns are great but they aren't worth more than $700.00, and for that kind of money, the box, papers and ALL the goodies better come with it.)

 

[JoeHatley]

FYI: My 1970's and 1980's vintage 25-5's shown above, both have cylinders that measure right at 0.450 --> 0.451.

Joe

 

[Stainz]

Note: Winchester's literature has a maximum suggested load for 255gr LSWC and W231 of 7.1 gr - I'd rethink the 8 gr load for safety's sake. Additionally, my experience with Titegroup has shown the lower 5.7 gr level to produce a higher velocity (789 fps) than the 7.1 gr of W231 did (754 fps - no where near their 7.2 gr max stated 850 fps!)) - and with less soot/unburned powder. Re the older 260gr JHP... it takes velocity, as does the older 200gr Speer Gold Dot. Georgia Arms loads the 200gr to a stated 1100 fps with normal .45 Colt pressures... as I said, I got 1123 +/- 8fps from those in my 625MG. When you find a 625/25MG - be kind...

Interestingly, the .44 Magnum version, the 629 MG, is once again available as a stocking dealer exclusive. Sporting some of the Hogue made-for-S&W .500 Magnum grips, my 629MG finally became a 'real' .44 magnum - safely capable of a bit more KE than the 625 MG. My pusher has a new one for <$600.

Stainz

 

[TexAg]

Why can the 629 Mountain Gun handle high pressure .44 Mag loads and the newer 625MG not handle high pressure .45 Colt loads?

 

[Burt Blade]

The two guns use essentially the same size cylinder. The larger holes for the .45 cartridge mean there is less metal chamber to chamber, and less metal chamber to outside edge. This means the .45 cylinder cannot handle as much pressure.

Also, Smith and Wesson does not proof the .45 guns for higher pressures since the .45 Colt ammo you are supposed to be shooting is nowhere near as hot as the .44 Magnum ammunition.

 

[usp_fan]

Stainz,

You are correct and I am wrong. I must have misremembered my load--I don't exceed max for any printed data. Perhaps it was 6.8, I'll have to go check.

Everyone, keep the data coming. Run into any good used 625 MG's for sale?

Thanks,

--usp_fan

 

[TexAg]

The two guns use essentially the same size cylinder. The larger holes for the .45 cartridge mean there is less metal chamber to chamber, and less metal chamber to outside edge. This means the .45 cylinder cannot handle as much pressure.

Also, Smith and Wesson does not proof the .45 guns for higher pressures since the .45 Colt ammo you are supposed to be shooting is nowhere near as hot as the .44 Magnum ammunition.

Thanks Burt.
Hahahaha, "supposed to be shooting"!! Guess I'll keep looking for the DA revolver to accompany my Vaquero....hmmm...Alaskan... it sure doesn't look as good as the Smiths though IMO.

 

[Marshall]

I have the Model 25-13 45 Colt Mountain Gun. It's a pleasure to shoot with the following ammo. If you can handload some 255-265gr Keith style hard cast bullets in the 1200 - 1250 fps range, you would be fine with the Mountain Gun and would have a heck of a hunting load! I wouldn't push much more than that. Buffalo Bore and Cor Bon say that they used the M25 Mountain Gun to test the Magnum loads they sell but I wouldn't shoot many of them. A few a year for hunting or protection from the nasty stuff in the woods, I wouldn't have a problem with. If you can come up with something like I described above though, you don't need them, they'll hit aweful hard and take down almost anything you'll likely run across.

Standard Pressure Heavy 45Colt

Item 3E:
255gr. Gas checked soft cast bullet
(1000 fps M.E.566 ft. lbs.)
Per Box of 20 $27.99

Item 3F:
200gr. JHC (Speer low velocity Gold Dot)
(1100 fps M.E. 537 ft. lbs)
Per Box of 20 $27.99

All of today’s standard 45 colt loads are very anemic. Often featuring a 250 gr. Bullet at around 700 fps.

We knew that we could develop a couple standard pressure 45 colt loads that would feature a 255gr. Gas checked soft cast bullet at around 1,000 fps or a 200gr. JHC (Speer low velocity Gold Dot) at around 1,100fps. We wanted loads that were substantially more powerful than today’s weenie loads, but that could be fired in ANY 45 colt firearm.

Both of these 45 colt loads are designed to be a heavy loading, yet be within standard (SAAMI) pressure. As such, both of these 45 colt loads are safe and recommended to be used IN ANY post-war 45 colt that is in normal working condition. ANY post-war means ANY post-war, so please take my word for it without phoning or emailing me “just to make sure”. I love hearing from and appreciate customers, I really do, but there is no sense using up your or my time answering questions that have already been answered.

These loads are indeed heavy 45 colt loadings. You can fire them in any post-war firearm that is in normal working condition chambered for 45 colt without reservation. These loads will turn your Colt SAA or clone into a powerful carry gun. The cast load (item 3E) is gas checked and will not substantially lead your barrel.

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#low45


Corbon also has a Heavy .45 Colt.
45COLT 200gr JHP 1100fps/537ftlbs 20 $15.98



Oh yea, I use the Corbon's or these Winchester Silvertips for around the house or if I happen to carry it.

225 gr. Super-X® Silvertip® Hollow Point
Muzzle 920 423

The Silvertips are not near as powerful as the others but make a great defensive load. They're mild in the large N frame Mountain Gun, very controllable and produce little muzzel flip. Basically, stout .45 ACP numbers.

 

[Stainz]

The thinnest part of the 25/625MG's .45 Colt cylinder skin is at the cylinder stop's depression. It is rated for standard .45 ACP/AR pressures, as they share the same thin skin cylinder. The SAAMI spec for smokeless .45 Colt is lower due to it's once use in balloon headed cases and older guns. Modern cases are thicker, and steels used in forged frames, like the the S&W's, are more stout, although I don't believe that the 25/625 frames are heat treated to the strength of the 29/629 frames. Still, in a phone call to S&W's customer service over three years ago re my 625MG's capability, I was told that it would "... take any commercial .45 Colt loading that came in a box.". The hotter specialty (Ruger-only) hunting loads were specifically mentioned as to be avoided.

Still, the Georgia Arms G45LE is my 625MG's max load. As stated, I chrono-ed 1123 fps from my 4" 625MG, 1210 fps from my 5.5" Redhawk, and 1424 fps from my 24" SS octagon barrel Puma M1892. They use new Starline brass, the latest I bought now sporting their own headstamp. They are less costly than the last box of similarly loaded Al-cased .45 Colt Blazers at $20/50 plus S/H... and you get great reloadable brass. That bullet is not of the thin skin Speer #4427 (.44 Special) Gold Dot's construction... it requires 1,000+ fps, where the mentioned .44 Special needs 800+ fps. They load that, too - and my 296 likes it! The only loaded ammo I buy is PD ammo.

Stainz

 

[Marshall]

Thought I would resurrect this thread and throw in a .45 Colt PIC.

 

[usp_fan]

That looks like the revolver I just purchased. I'll try to get pics and a range report up on it shortly. What loads does yours like? Any recommendations on leather?

--usp_fan

 

[Malodorousroadkill]

Just not enough 45 colt Double Actions out there. There are more 454 DAs than 45 colt DA. And the 454s tend just to be TOO massive. Seems nearly impossible to find a Ruger Redhawk with a barrel under 7.5 inches.

 

[ArmedBear]

Y'all need to git some opposable thumbs.

 

[usp_fan]

Armedbear,

I already scratched that itch with an accusport run stainless bisley. That's what got me into this whole .45 Colt mess to begin with.

--usp_fan

 

[Marshall]

That looks like the revolver I just purchased. I'll try to get pics and a range report up on it shortly. What loads does yours like? Any recommendations on leather?

--usp_fan

Sorry, been away for a few days.

You might check this thread for factory ammo. Enjoy your gun, they're so nice to shoot!

 

[bpisler]

I had a 625-6 MG in 45 colt,it was one of the
most accurate revolvers i ever owned.I got a
case of the stupids and sold it.I now own a 3"
625-7 in 45 colt,that one isn't going anywhere
except to the range.