Help me with my shopping list - first time reloader

[MrPeter]

Hey there reloading experts! I need your help!

I'm going to pick up my first set of reloading gear next week and wanted a shopping list so I could pick everything up the first time I go, so I figured I would ask here! But of course there's a catch...

1) All equipment must be purchased from Cabela's (because of gift card). I can get components elsewhere though.

2) I have narrowed down the kit to start with to be one of these two:
Lyman T-Mag II Expert Reloading Kit for $339
-T-Mag II Turret Press
-No. 55 powder measure
-Lyman's Universal Case Trimmer that requires no collets
-1000 XP Electronic Reloading Scale
-calibration weight
- powder pan
-built-in digital readout
-universal priming arm
-primer tray
-auto primer feed
-extra capping pins
I like this option because it seems very well built. I'm worried that it'll be too slow though.

Lee Classic Turret Press Reloading Kit for $189
-Classic Turret Press
-large and small primer feeders
-Lee Pro Auto-Disc Powder Measure with four measuring discs
-Auto Disc Riser for convenient use of other brands of dies
-Lee Rifle Charging Die for small-capacity rifle cases.
-Lee Safety Scale
I like this option because it's between a single-stage and progressinve. Not as fast and error-prone as a progressive, but not as slow as a single stage once I know what I'm doing.


I want to reload high volumes of PISTOL rounds (44 mag to start). I'm a fairly fast learner, and know how to take my time, but I don't want to start on a slow press, learn my stuff, then immediately need to upgrade to a faster one. I was originally set on the Lee, but the guy at the store said the Lee is utter SH*T because something about plastic bushings, and that I HAVE TO get the Lyman or I'm an idiot.
(To reaffirm, I am NOT LOADING RIFLE ROUNDS! I do VERY LITTLE rifle shooting and all I shoot is steel cased surplus crap anyway, so it's cheap enough for me to not have to reload! I am NOT INTERESTED in reloading RIFLE ROUNDS!)

So the million dollar question is:
Which of these should I buy and what do I need to buy with each of them so I can get started without returning to the store? Please include things that I will want to replace on either of these kits because they suck (say if the Lee powder measure is terrible but the rest of the kit is great.)

Also some info that may be pertinent:
The main reason I reload is to crank out cheap target ammo and to burn time when it's not nice enough out to go shooting or riding my motorcycle. I'm not a hunter, and if I did I would only dabble and be fine with factory hunting loads (maybe thinking of taking a goose this year). Also my .44 magnum is a .44 tracker MEDIUM FRAME revolver (5shot model) I won't be shooting hot loads out of anything at least until I get a .44 levergun.

 

[billybob44]

Welcome to the new hobby!!

Great to see another shooter get started into handloading. The FIRST piece of equipment that you need is a Handloading Manual!! Since Lyman equipt. is being considered, I highly rec. the Lyman Handloading Manual. Buy it first, take it home, soak up the info in it, and return to the store with a better understanding of what you are buying, and why. DO NOT be in a hurry to crank off your first .44 loads without an understanding of what each step is and why you are doing it. IMO, I do not use hardly any Lee products-some speciality dies and thats all. I prefer RCBS products, but that's just me. Check out the RCBS line, with a RockChucker press, and see what kind of combo/price. When you read the Lyman Manual pay attention to the highlighted warnings, and safety precautions. They will save a lot of headaches for you down the road. Feel free to PM me, and I will try to answer any questions that you might have!!!

 

[Gryffydd]

SOME Lee products are utter crap. The Safety Scale is one. If you go with that kit I'd highly recommend going with a good beam scale or very good electronic scale. Avoid any electronic scales selling for less than $50 at the bare minimum.
The Lee Classic Turret on the other hand gets almost universally good reviews. Keep in mind it can be run as auto-indexing, which will speed up the process greatly. The Lee AutoDisk will also speed up pistol loading vs. the off-press Lyman.
Personally I'd go with the Lee kit and then get a decent scale. Depending on your loads, the case trimmer may not see much or any action with pistol rounds.

Also, look into getting the double disk set for the Lee powder measure. It will allow both finer control of charge weights, and larger charge weights than the single disk set. Loading H110 in .45 Colt I couldn't get enough powder for some of my loads using only one disk.

 

[MrPeter]

Can-do on the manual, but I would really prefer to pick it up all at once. I won't touch the equipment until the manual is read, I PROMISE THIS!!!

(there is a slight time constraint because of gift cards + coupon combination I'm hoping to use expire soon :-/)

 

[JCisHe]

I would recommend you start with a single stage and worry about the mass reloading later.

I'd go some sort of cast press package.
Couple of uni load blocks
3 or 4 manuals (lyman, hornady, speer, lee)
funnel
brass
primers
lids
bench
priming system
tumbler
media (corn cob)
primer pocket cleaner
patience

Do one step at a time for probably 2k rounds (at least) before you look into a progressive or turret system.

You will need a single stage anyway to work up loads.

A reloaders first loads are lots of 10 at differing lengths, charges, trying different powders and bullets...

After you find the magic load for your particular weapon comes production. That's when you can use a progressive or turret... trust me, you will want a progressive very soon.

Honestly though, from one reloader to another, go with a single stage first and spend a good 6mo.-year getting used to the process, carefully inspecting everything, and most important of all... learning from your mistakes on SMALL QUANTITIES of reloads.

Don't start with Speer Golddots but start with Berry's plated bullets
Don't start with HOT loads but with target loads and build a good load
Don't load to have masses of cheap ammo; load because it is fun, enjoyable, and a challenge.

You get where I'm going?

This is the best advice I could give you along with one final imperative... FIND SOMEONE TO TRAIN YOU!

Good luck!

 

[Gryffydd]

While there are other ways to clean your brass, I would recommend getting a tumbler and some polishing media as well. Cabelas has a store brand one for around $50 that works well.
You might one one of these.

Edit: Took too long to hit post, JCisHe beat me to most of that.
The only thing I'd add is that there's no need to start out with a single stage press. A turret press IS a single stage press as long as you don't rotate the turret. Do what he's saying, load single stage/batch style, but you can do that on a turret press.

learning from your mistakes on SMALL QUANTITIES of reloads

+1

3 or 4 manuals (lyman, hornady, speer, lee)

And don't forget that most powder manufacturers have a ton of load data on their websites.

 

[Maj Dad]

Opt For The Lyman Kit

I agree with Gryffydd about the Lee products quality-wise. I do use the case trimmers and a couple other small tools (and I do have the Lee Loader I bought in 1970 and still use from time to time), but a lot of it is just too flimsy, bendable and breakable. Many will disagree, and I think that's fine, but starting out you ought to have a certain level of solid quality, and I think you'll be much happier and much better served by the Lyman kit (I would add a good beam balance - I am uneasy around simple electronics when you're throwing magnum loads without verification; call me old fashioned ). The T-Mag is the one thing I would have done differently 40 years ago when I started, but I started with a garage sale set up with all the goodies (Herter's U3, Lyman 55 measure that I still use, and a 505 scale, etc etc). You have the convenience of having all the dies on the press, but the simplicity of a single stage system to learn on. Read that manual from cover to cover, and then re-read before launching. And hang out here - sure would have been nice when I started out to have a superb source of info like THR. I still ask questions, and probably will until I hang it up. Enjoy!
Regards,
Maj Dad

 

[dsv424]

I have the Lee Classic Turret and have been using it for about a year now and absolutely love it. Plus the money you save by getting this press you can put towards more die sets and turrets when you expand to do other calibers. I have no problems with my press and with the auto-indexing it makes it the fastest turret style press you can buy. Changing from one caliber to another is done in a matter of seconds. You would want to purchase the Lee reloading manual as well since a lot of the info in it pertains to Lee presses. Welcome to the addictive world of reloading!

 

[Gryffydd]

Changing from one caliber to another is done in a matter of seconds

That's the other nice thing about the Lee Turret. The turret heads are cheap enough to buy one per caliber so your dies are always adjusted and you can swap between calibers easily. You can do it with the Lyman but the heads are quite a bit more.
While I did say that some of Lee's products suck, their presses generally are NOT on that list.

 

[Gryffydd]

Here's another item for your list. Bullet puller

Edit, 1 more: ammo boxes
You can always recycle factory ammo boxes, but these are more durable and are easier to mark describing their contents.

 

[JCisHe]

Gryff is a man after my own heart...

I say go single stage O type press though because sooner than later you will want to load rifle rounds and a good strong single stage is by far the best way to do to those loads.

There is always a good reason to have a rockchucker or something similar.

 

[Gryffydd]

I currently only have 2 presses. A Lee Loadmaster, and a Lee Handpress.
I actually started on the Loadmaster of all things
But I did so very, very slowly. No case feeder, and operating it like a turret, with only one round going around at a time, pulling the round off after every stage and checking it. It wasn't the best idea I'd ever had, but it worked out in the end. As long as you apply the proper level of care and study you'll be OK. I use my hand press for small lots, depriming etc. I still wish I had a nice bench mounted single stage though. Just every time I think about getting one something else catches my eye. The Hand press is actually kind of nice, as I get to do all those things in the living room instead of the shop.

 

[dagger dog]

MP,

If you have the means go with the Lyman, as far a speed, the Tmag and Lee turret are both in the same hand turned family, I'd give the edge to the Tmag . The T mag is rock solid and can out last the Lee round to round (and Lee is not crap, just entry level equipment, like the difference between Snap-On and Craftsman tools)it will serve its purpose for years beyond the Lee on equal use.

44 Mag is an unusual caliber to load in volume, being for most a hunting round. If you are getting into high volume,( a 1,000 rounds at a setting or more) you might want to look into a progressive set up, and a lot of high volume shooters go with Lee.

I'm sure that Cabelas will order what ever set you decide.

You will need a caliper, to measure your brass, and cartridge overall length, especially if you are shooting any calibers that head space off the case mouth. You will also use it if you get into rifle reloading, and a way to deburr and chamfer your brass, but I beleive that is included in either of the two kits you named, a hand priming tool is a plus if you want to build M.O.A. rifle loads. The previous tip about case cleaning is a valid tip , the tumbler is one thing you will want to own, keeping your reloads clean will extened case and handgun life.

A little word of caution , you are boldy going where others have gone before, and you need to keep tight reins on the wallet, it is an addictive hobby!

 

[Gryffydd]

e T mag is rock solid and can out last the Lee round to round --- it will serve its purpose for years beyond the Lee on equal use.

While I have no doubt this is true, having looked at both in person, I'd like to hear from someone who has actually worn out a Lee Classic Turret. At what point does the Lee quit and the Lyman keeps working? 100,000 rounds? 500k? More?

If you have the means go with the Lyman, as far a speed, the Tmag and Lee turret are both in the same hand turned family, I'd give the edge to the Tmag .

Are talking reloading output speed? With auto-indexing and the die-mounted powder measure on the Lee there is now way the Lyman come close in that department.

 

[RoostRider]

Geez.... you're going to want sooo many things.... lol.... ask me how I know?...

I don't have any of the press's you are considering (or did that Lyman used to be red?, cause it looks a lot like mine aside from that), but I do have a single stage, a turret, a progressive and even the Lee hand press Gryffrd suggested... they all have their plus's and minus's...

Clearly, the hand press is the slowest, and easiest to screw up, but is also mobile and just fine for mindless tasks like depriming and re-priming.... I quickly moved past that and into the finer press's for actual reloading.. but as noted, it still comes in handy for some things... especially when I have someone who just wants to sit around and chat while I reload (puts them to use).

The Lee Classic Turret looks cheesy to me... the Lyman does not.... and while neither will likely wear out in a couple years worth of reloading, I prefer quality, and the knowledge that my press is going to produce quality reproducible ammo every time.

I think you will find so many helpful do-dads that trying to list them here is difficult at best (you are getting some good input though)...

I also think, that if you take to this you will be moving to a progressive press in a year or so.... so the old press will get relegated to menial tasks and serious quality control rounds.... for top notch rounds on a budget it is hard to beat a strong turret press (a good single stage does though)...

Have you considered a quality single stage? It's nearly as fast once you know how to set dies (they have lock rings too, which keep them real close to 'right on' even through a changeover)... it is good to learn on.... it is cheaper.... and it will serve as that press that produces TOP NOTCH rounds every time once you go progressive for the pistol rounds...

 

[jfh]

Get the Lee Turret Kit. Period.

All of us offering our advice--rather, our opinion--are speaking from our personal prejudices as much as speaking from objective criteria. For you, the tipoff to what to buy is found in this statement in your opening post:

"...I want to reload high volumes of PISTOL rounds (44 mag to start)...."​

The Lee Turrets have the auto-indexing feature that will allow you to load "high volumes"--up to 200 rph--once you've learned to load. While you are learning to load, you can use it as a single stage. That feature alone really does cover the group of us who swear there is no way to start out reloading except on a single stage or a manually-indexing turret.

dsv424 pretty well covered the benefits to the Lee Classic Cast Turret press--and there are no real downsides to it, AFAIK. As for the Lee "quality issues", that's not really an issue--but the Cabela's clerk may well get more commission on a bigger sale, so he recommends the more expensive products. As for longevity--Gryffydd covered that base. So, go with the Lee Classic cast kit.

In many ways, you had really answered your own question with your followup comments about not loading for rifle. Were you planning on starting your reloading career with rifle, then the choice might be reversed, but that isn't what you said.

To refine that Lee list--

1. The scale: I get along just fine with the Lee measure--but I can also believe other scales are better, and I own other scales. Buy a better one, as outlined.

2. Lee Powder Measure: Upgrade this to the Deluxe and / or get the Pro version as well. And, get the adjustable charge bar. I don't think you will need a double disk kit (do MAX loads for .44 mag need it?)--but the ACB allows you to do fine-tuned load development; the disks do not.

3. Calipers Get a basic electronic-readout one.

4. Cleaning gear: A tumbler, as others said.

5. Manuals: The Lee is worthwhile--but also get a Lyman Pistol and Revolver, and I personally like the Speer 14 (latest) for handguns.

Here's a link to one fairly good list of startup hardware needs--read the comments on all posts.​

When you adjust your list, post it and we'll be happy to critique it.

Jim H.

 

[Gryffydd]

don't think you will need a double disk kit (do MAX loads for .44 mag need it?)

When using H110/W296, he'll need it. I couldn't get close to max with 240gr in the .45 Colt (28gr H110). Max for 240 in the 44 mag is only 24 grains of H110, but the 44 will take 31gr for 180gr bullets.
I can't remember off the top of my head exactly what the max H110 throw is with a single disk, but I think it was right around 22-24.

My main gripe with the Lee scale is that .01 gr measurement where you have to slide that thing around and try to read those tiny white lines while not jostling the beam too much. It works well enough, it's just not terribly user friendly. I can weigh so much faster and easier with my Dillon beam scale, which I think is basically the same as the RCBS model.

 

[MrPeter]

Thanks JFH. You have the clearest most objective reply for a newcomer.

You guys have to remember I've never done this before. Listing stuff I 'need' or 'will want' does me little good if I don't know what it's for or how to use it (or why?) I guess I can figure out what I'd need a bullet puller for. Hmm, maybe thats why I was recommended to get the manuals.

Also a note that may be of value is:
The main reason I reload is to crank out cheap target ammo and to burn time when it's not nice enough out to go shooting or riding my motorcycle. I'm not a hunter, and if I did I would only dabble and be fine with factory hunting loads (maybe thinking of taking a goose this year). Also my .44 magnum is a .44 tracker MEDIUM FRAME revolver (5shot model) I won't be shooting hot loads out of anything at least until I get a .44 levergun. I'll update my original post with this info.

I'm feeling more and more comfortable with the Lee...

 

[Gryffydd]

Hmm, maybe thats why I was recommended to get the manuals.

Pretty much! The manuals say it far better and more completely than we can. We can help with your shopping list, and then when as you read the manuals and you have questions not answered there, this is a great resource. Once you have read through the entire instructional portion of a manual or two, you'll have a good idea of what every item is for.
I read and re-read the Lee manual before I got started. I bought it months ahead of any equipment other than the tumbler I used to start cleaning all the factory brass I'd been saving up. The Lee manual is OK (and cheap), but the writing is HORRIBLY biased towards Lee equipment, to the point of being ludicrous. Richard Lee also has a love affair with CCI primers, but that's another story.

 

[jfh]

Based on your revised Opening Post,

Consider the following:

1. Since you get the Lee Scale with the kit, you might as well not worry about getting a different one. It is perfectly easy to use once you know the correct technique. Once you have it in hand (literally), we can describe that technique in another thread.

2. Get a manual now. Personally, I recommend The ABCs of Reloading for non-reloader. It's an "overview" type--not a reloading / recipe-type. It'll help you get acquainted with jargon, and describe different topics with enough pictures so that the gear is not confusing.

3. I checked the link at Cabela's--and my guess is that you will end up with the "standard" version of the Pro Auto Disk, not the "Deluxe". That's fine--the "Deluxe" version has the chrome-plated base, and as such should last longer.

4. Further to that--it appears that you will get the riser with the kit--which probably means the Adjustable Charge Bar is not included, and you will have to buy that as an option.

5. Be sure to get the Lee 4-die .44 mag die set, not the 3-die. That will include the #4 / Lee FCD, and you will want some special setup instruction on that--but later, when you are learning to build dummy rounds.

6. Calipers are mandatory.

7. To my way of thinking, cleaning gear is mandatory--e.g., the tumbler and media.

8. One or two 100-count ammo boxes are really good for load development: You can load twenty rounds at one charge level, up it by (for example) two-tenths of a grain, load another twenty, etc., etc.

9. Personally, I like a MAX cart gauge on the bench--but it really is optional.

And on, and on...​

Study some more and then you build what you think is your initial purchase list--we'll clean it up.

Jim H.

 

[MrPeter]

Lee Classic Turret Press Reloading Kit for $189.99
Cabela's Case Tumbler Kit for $58.99
6" Digital Caliper with Fracional and Decimal readings for $19.99 (Is this one good enough? Looks exactly the same as this one)
Lyman Pistol and Revolver handbook for $14.99
Lee Adjustable Charge Bar for $7.89 (still not 100% sure why I need this, but I think I get what it does. Couldn't find it at Cabela's.)
Lee Carbide Dies (.44 Mag or .44Mag/Special? Which is the one that includes 4 dies, not 3 as mentioned earlier?) for 25.99.
Lee Pistol Crimp Dies (FCD die? Also not 100% sure what this is for...)for $15.99

I think I'll stick with the scale it comes with, find out exactly what it is I don't like about it, and use that as a basis for purchasing a better one.

So whats the dillio on the powder measure? Should I replace the whole thing altogether? Is the primer feeder something I need to replace too?
How does my shopping cart look so far? Do I need a primer pocket cleaner...? Recommend one!

(thanks to all those who have responded )

 

[Gryffydd]

I had one of those cheap digital calipers. Mine was marked Frankford Arsenal, but I think they're all made by the same people in China as they're identical other than colors and logos. It died within a month or so (as did my Frankford Arsenal electronic scale). Just personally, I much prefer the dial models. It's not like they're in any way hard to read and you get a lifetime of use with no battery replacements. That's just personal experience and opinion. That Harbor Freight one may well last you a good long time.

I have an adjustable charge bar for my Auto-Disk. I never use it as the double disk set gives me .01gr adjustments for most powders. This is also more repeatable. As long as I use the same disk combination with the same powder I get the same charge every time. The ACB will have to be re-zeroed every time you change charge weights. Again, just personal experience and opinion, evaluate and choose The double disk kit is available from Midway USA, not sure if Cabelas has it, but it's not on their website.

 

[jfh]

The Powder measure is fine--but if Cabela's will upgrade it to the Deluxe version for $10.00, do it, IMO. (The Deluxse kit, I believe, also includes the ACB in it. )

I'll respectfully disagree with Gryffydd about the merits of the ACB--but I started using an (aftermarket) charge bar very early on (about twenty years ago), and I don't like the disks. (BTW, Gryffydd, I think you have additional decimal place so to speak--I don't think the disks can be accurate to closer than two-tenths of a grain, not two hundredths.) It boils down to different strokes for different folks, so to speak--you'll find out which charging approach you'll like.

The tumbler kit looks fine--again, a personal preference is in the media; I prefer crushed walnut. Not an issue.

I see Cabela's sells you three-die sets, with the 4th / FCD die is sold separately, here. Add that on to the list.

Note that there is some controversy about the purpose and use of the FCD. Disregard that for now--for you, the purpose is to learn to seat and crimp in separate steps, and the FCD can be set up just fine to do. (The post-sizing issue is not germane to this thread / discussion.)

About the primer feed--since you are getting a 'general' Classic Cast Turret kit--e.g., it does not include dies--I believe you will be getting it with both Large and Small Primer feeds and primer arms. If it comes with only one, verify yours is a kit with a Large primer. That's the only factor to consider right now.

The caliper looks fine. I share Gryffydd's cynicism about cheap calipers--but at least Cabela's make this caliper an easy item to deal with should you have to return it. There is merit in buying a better caliper, I agree--but the digital readouts are easier for my aging eyes, and that may be where I am biased. If you can appreciate / use better-quality (dial) calipers, by all means get one.

Jim H.

 

[Gryffydd]

You are correct, I did mean tenths, not hundredths! I let my fingers get away from me.
I just like being able to write down which combination of disk holes I used to get a desired charge weight. Then the next time I want more of that load I just pop the same combo in, throw a few test charges and I'm off. None of that adjust, test, adjust, test, adjust, test. I know the ACB has .1 grain markings on the knob itself, but I just didn't find it as intuitive or quick. But, obviously others like it, and you may find you prefer it as well. Get both, try both, stick with the one you like. They're both around $10 or less.

With only one disk, it can be difficult to get the exact charge you want. You'll often find the charge you want is right between two of the holes. With the two disks you can pick out just about any given charge with any given powder down to the tenth.

 

[tdt91]

I recently got Lee's manual on line for 13 bucks. Well worth it. Much more info than others from bullet manufactures I have.