Help me with my shopping list - first time reloader

[RustyFN]

I'm with Jim ( jfh ) and the classic turret. I have been loading on mine for over three years and couldn't be happier. It can be used as a single stage press or an auto-indexing press to turn out higher volume. It is a very solid press and turns out very accurate and consistent ammo. I wouldn't worry about a case trimmer for pistol ammo. I have found the Lee scale to be accurate just not fun to use. You will only need to use it long enough each time to set the charge on the powder measure. It should get you by and you can upgrade that later if you want. I bought a different scale but know some people that love the Lee scale. Also instead of buying the FCD separate you should be able to buy the four die set. Welcome to reloading.

Rusty

 

[billybob44]

Each to his own. On brands.

I like several do not care for many (MOST) of Lee products. As posted before-it IS the difference between Craftsman/Kobalt/Fuller and Snap-On tools. You will save money on the Lee, but you will not get the quality/warranty, that you will get with Lyman/RCBS/Dillon. I am a GM Master Auto Tech, by trade. I have very few Craftsman tools-mostly Snap-On, some Mac. My first press (Ala 1974) was/is a RCBS RockChucker. Added on a Dillon RL550B, for volume handgun loads in 83/84. I am NOT wealthy, but I don't believe in using cheap tools, to do a job correctly. This also carries over to my hand loading hobby. I really believe if SOME of the Lee Lovers would have started on QUALITY tools, that they would not be pushing Lee products so much now. Look out for the FLAME from the Red Kool-Aid Drinkers!!

 

[RustyFN]

I really believe if SOME of the Lee Lovers would have started on QUALITY tools, that they would not be pushing Lee products so much now.

Well I'm not a Lee lover but do think the classic turret is a quality press. I have loaded on a Dillon 550 and don't think it is worth it for me to upgrade to when the CT loads ammo just as good just not quite as fast. The 550 was a nice press but I didn't walk away with the feeling that it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm just curious if you have used a Lee classic turret or if you are just repeating what you have heard from others. You would be amazed how many people like to talk bad about Lee products but have never used one.

 

[floydster]

Rusty, AMEN!!!

 

[MrPeter]

Well personally, I shop at HarborFreight a lot, so that tells you what sort of tool guy I am

BTW The kit I see there has large and small primer feeds. Not sure what that means yet, but I think it's good enough for me at least for now.

Thanks so much for all the responses! I can't wait to start reading, then reloading!

 

[Gryffydd]

BTW The kit I see there has large and small primer feeds. Not sure what that means yet, but I think it's good enough for me at least for now.

There are two sizes of pistol primers, large and small. .44 Mag uses large pistol primers. Small Pistol primers are used by everything from about .40cal and down.

 

[Gryffydd]

I really believe if SOME of the Lee Lovers would have started on QUALITY tools, that they would not be pushing Lee products so much now. Look out for the FLAME from the Red Kool-Aid Drinkers!

LOL. If there's Koolaid being drunk by anyone, it's typically blue. The people who buy Lee products tend to just be practical people who recognize that they can get the same quality of ammo at 90% of the speed at about 30% of the cost. You'll also notice that people who buy Lee products also tend to realize that some of their stuff sucks and we avoid it. A lot of Dillon guys would probably rather join the Brady Bunch than let anything not blue onto their benches.
My Loadmaster cost me a grand total of about $275 WITH automatic case feed and Auto-Indexing. A comparable (feature wise) Dillon would run me close to a grand. Yes, it would be nicer and it might take less fiddling. But in the end it wouldn't make better ammo, and it wouldn't do it much faster.

 

[ranger335v]

"the guy at the store said the Lee is utter SH*T because something about plastic bushings, and that I HAVE TO get the Lyman or I'm an idiot."

The "guy" at the store is full of his own Sh*t, Lee has a few plastic parts in low stress areas but not bushings. Few shops carry Lee because the mark-up is low, period.

From all the above info you might not get that Lee has three "turret" presses. The better choice is the steel bodied Classic Turret. It is big and strong enough to load ANY conventional rifle round and, with its auto index function, output can approximate a progressive but A much NICER PRICE.

My first press was a Lyman turret, it obviously had to be "faster" than a single stage, right? Wrong. In practice, I find that no manually operated turret press is any faster than any single stage. All the turret offers is a place to store a few dies, which often have to be replaced if/when you change cartridges. It only takes maybe 20 seconds to swap screw-in dies so even with a three or four die set you're only looking at a minute or so added time for a full loading session, so that's a wash. (Ditto for any "quick change" bushing system, just gimmicks and a needless expense with no real advantage.)

Lee's inexpensive turret heads actually make it rational to have a head set up for each caliber. Due to the excellant turret retaining design they can be swapped in a few seconds without tools! That's NOT so for the Lyman or Redding turrets; expensive heads, needs a big wrench plus lots more time. And a possiblity of lost parts when the turret is lifted.

I don't have a Lee Classic Turret. Wish I did, but I do have four other presses so I can't justify adding another!

The Lee and/or Lyman reloading handbooks are the best bets for new loaders. They do try to sell you some equipment but they also have some very well written and well illustrated directions for newbies. And a LOT of good reloading data too!

 

[nulfisin]

Lyman, but ...

In addition to books, it helps to have someone walk you through the process. I didn't have that option, so I got a good reloading DVD. It's critical to be able to visualize everything you are doing.

I personally selected the Lyman T-mag kit, and it's great. The Lyman manual is also a classic. However, the illustrations that come with the actual equipment are mediocre. There are some videos on-line. I bought a DVD for the RCBS press (which is not identical to mine) and watched it to get general visual impressions fixed in my mind. This is very important when you are starting out.

 

[Rugg_Ed]

Welcome to interest

I would have to agree with JCisHe and Gryffydd on some quality issues with some Lee Products not all but some. Loading manuals the Lyman is a great choice. Consider a balance beam scale Redding, Lyman, my 51 year old Redding still works fine and I don't recall it needing a battery or any power. The old RCBS RockChukar and nearly as old Lyman Turret both are still being used and handle the heavy work just fine.
Enjoy its a Great Satisfaction working out the loads.
Rugg_Ed

 

[Gadzooks Mike]

Alright! There is NOTHING more fun than helping somebody spend their money! Ok, put this on your list - get a set of Lee dippers. I don't care what press you buy, how much you spend on scales or anything else, the guys have it all covered above. But get the dippers. One of the most handy things on the bench. And +1 for what dsv424 says about the Lee. But everyone has their favorite, get what will make you happy. You'll be using it a lot more than you think you will!

 

[JCisHe]

Hey, I didn't say I don't like Lee products. I would kill for a a Lee Cast Turret. That's one fine press. I've used one and I REALLY liked it.

I actually load progressively on a Lee 1000 for all of my pistols. It works rather well... I just go slowly... I enjoy reloading and I care about my weapons... if you catch what I'm saying.

I just want this guy to start single stage and not just crank and crank until he has 4k of bad ammo and doesn't know why. The single stage, whatever you choose, should always be the new loaders first step.

I don't care how smart the person is... that's just the way it is. I personally have a Lyman Orange Crusher but that isn't the best... it's just a nice single stage just like a Rockchucker or even a Lee Classic Cast Single stage... It just has to be the O-ring design.

The thing with "blue" is the fact that you can send it back for a rebuild 45 years down the line for free. That's a nice feature... the question is, "will they still be there in 45 years?

I use Lee, I use Lyman, I use RCBS... I started single stage with a competent reloader teaching me. Any other way is foolish in my opinion. I think I can say that with absolute honesty and certainty because messing up can cost a life, the weapon, a digit, or someone else's eye... a good quality reloader comes after a lot of instruction and careful correction on behalf of another quality reloader.

That's my .02 cents.

Regards...

 

[jfh]

As I said earlier, our opinions are used to justify as much as actual needs analysis

Twenty years ago, when I got back in shooting and got into handguns, my shooting buddy who reloaded walked me through reloading on his Lee 3-die turret press. So, I bought one like it. IIRC the press kit was $39.95--maybe with dies. I learned how to use it--there really were no problems with it, save for the erratic spent primer catching--and, as I expanded my reloading bench, I even bought a second one; then a Pro1000 to feed the 10mms and 45s--and eventually the Load-Master. By this time, I had loaded enough to understand the cheaper design and construction of the Lee presses--but I couldn't see where it impacted the quality of the loaded cartridge, and I really wasn't spending undue time with Lee "quirks."

This was at a time when I could have afforded any press--money was not an issue. I suspect that if my buddy had a Dillon on his bench, I would have bought Dillons. As time passed, and the 650 came out, I looked at it long and hard--and just couldn't justify its price, even in 1996 or so. The Lees worked well enough, fast enough and had enough quality to satisfy me. Although I had to learn the quirks of the Pro1000 and of the Load-Master, it was only with the Load-Master that I had ongoing "trouble."

As for the Dillon 550--IIRC, that cost $198.00 at the time the Lee turret was $60.00. Because of its lack of (even an optional) indexing feature, the press has bemused me. I'm one of those people who strongly believe in auto-indexing for progressives. In light of that, maybe the 550 is a fancy turret--at least in my eyes. However, it is clear that there are scads of 550 users who don't see this the way I do, and for whom the 550 is the best cost-conscious press out there.

In this thread, however, the discussion is not about the quality / design / durability / features of the different brands--it's about the appropriate press for this particular new reloader, MrPeter. Given his parameters, I still have to believe the Lee Classic Cast Turret is the right press for a startup handgun reloader to buy. It spans the range from Single stage on up to an output of nominally 200 rph with its auto-indexing rod, and it does build good ammo.

That flexibility is what makes it important for the cost-conscious novice reloader. For that matter, it can work well for the more experienced user. If my "Standard" Turret from twenty years ago ever wears out, I'll probably upgrade that to the Classic Cast Turret. Were I looking for higher-volume production again, I would consider the Hornady LockNLoad, or the Dillon 650 as well.

Jim H.

 

[Gryffydd]

Just curious, JCisHe, why not use a quality turret as you would a single stage press? I can see how a possibility of lower press rigidity might make a difference loading .30-06 or something, but with straight walled pistol cartridges it seems like it would work just as well. I certainly agree with you that single-stage *style* loading is the way to start. I just can't think of a reason why you can't do that with a turret press.

 

[JCisHe]

Gryff, you know how the story goes... "I'm ready to load steps 1,2,3, and 4" instead of taking the time to master step 1, then step 2, etc...

It's the temptation Gryff... the temptation. Loading quickly + new reloader = trouble.

The single stage solves that problem at least in a linear sense... you know what I mean?

I've just seen new reloaders, myself included, start with good intentions and then make stupid mistakes for the sake of "using the press like it should be used" or some other rationalization.

Perhaps you don't agree and I guess if I were teaching the guy I wouldn't mind but after a few times of "let's use the turret" and me answering "not yet" and the guy not listening (which is bound to happen) I would go right to the single stage anyway.

 

[rfwobbly]

You're really not comparing apples-to-apples, my friend. I believe the T-Mag costs more because you get a whole lot more.

Get the Lee if initial cost is an issue, but please be aware that to get quality loads you'll soon be replacing the Lee's powder dispenser for one more like the Lyman, and replacing the Lee scale with an Ohaus just like comes with the Lyman.

AND on top of all that... the Lyman comes with the Lyman Reloading Manual and a rock-solid Lyman case trimmer. Add up all the extra costs to bring the Lee up to spec and the Lyman is less expensive.

Unfortunately, neither set comes with a worthwhile caliper.


You gets whats you pays for.

 

[Lonely Raven]

Not to thread jack, but since it's mentioned by the OP. Does anyone have any first hand experience with the T-MAG II? How well does it work? How's the deflection of the turret?

 

[Gryffydd]

I believe the T-Mag costs more because you get a whole lot more.

More? Like Auto Indexing and quick change turret heads?

but please be aware that to get quality loads you'll soon be replacing the Lee's powder dispenser for one more like the Lyman

You mean one that you have to remove the brass from the press to charge it? The Auto Disk is good for +/- .1gr with most pistol powders. For pistol reloading that's usually plenty good.

and replacing the Lee scale with an Ohaus just like comes with the Lyman.

This is probably true, as has been said. So there's $50.

AND on top of all that... the Lyman comes with the Lyman Reloading Manual

$20

and a rock-solid Lyman case trimmer.

That he won't need.

Add up all the extra costs to bring the Lee up to spec and the Lyman is less expensive.

How much does it cost to bring the Lyman up to spec and give it auto indexing?

You gets whats you pays for.

And sometimes that's a big ol' lump of cast iron

There's nothing wrong with the Lyman set, but that doesn't necessarily make it the right choice for everyone.

 

[Gryffydd]

It's the temptation Gryff... the temptation. Loading quickly + new reloader = trouble.

I don't disagree precisely. I just wasn't sure if you were looking at it from the psychological standpoint or something I hadn't thought of that was a disadvantage of a physical nature of using a turret press that way. I guess it all comes down to the person at the bench.

 

[Steeltown Joe]

MP,
I just started reloading myself this year and found this book very helpful.

ABC's of Reloading, 8th Edition" Book by Bill Chevalier

Starting with the basics, this guide leads the reader through the process of reloading with ease. Perfect for beginners or as a refresher for experienced reloaders, this book discusses the necessary tools and accessories needed to get started as well as step-by-step instructions and safety tips for loading your own metallic cartridges and shotshells. Helpful illustrations guide readers through each step and make the process easy to understand. This book covers all aspects of the hobby, from benchrest techniques to ballistic software, competition and hunting loads and more. Also includes a directory of reloading manufacturers. Includes information on cartridge cases, primers, powders, bullets, equipment and much more.

I also have a friend and shooting mentor that has helped me in every way in both shooting and reloading. My #1 is safety 1st. Take your time ! it's fun not a chore ! Check E-Bay for used reloading equipment. I have found some very good deals there. Bought a Dillon Square Deal B set up for 44 Mag. 44Sp for $245. Just bought Lyman 357/38Sp 3 die set of Carbide dies for $22.50 for my Single Stage. Check it out ! The book can also be found on E-Bay.

Steeltown

 

[Gryffydd]

Perhaps I was a bit harsher than I meant to be...I probably shouldn't post when I'm up with the baby in the middle of the night and am half asleep...
I'll agree that in many ways the Lyman is more expensive because you get more. You just have to make the personal decision on whether those things are worth more to you than the things that the Lee gives you and the Lyman doesn't. As jfh said, we need to look at the OP's stated needs and planned reloading activities and make suggestions based on that. Telling a brand new reloader (who shops at Harbor Freight of all things) to buy a Dillon progressive as a first press, or that the Lyman T-Mag II is better for high volume pistol reloading isn't really being attentive and helpful.

 

[Lonely Raven]

I wish more posters (in all forums) paid more attention to the original posters needs and questions.

Well said, Gryffydd.

 

[JCisHe]

Gryff,

Beside that, EVERYONE needs a single stage and it just so happens that it is the smartest way to start out. The OP thinks that he is only going to use it for what he thinks he wants to use it for right now but you and I both know that once you get started things change very quickly.

It's best to do it right from the start, get the needed supplies, and then later on there is less mess to clean up in a lot off ways.

Good luck OP!

 

[dsv424]

I noticed in one of your threads you were contemplating not getting the adjustable charge bar. I would highly recommend that you do because your going to find out that the holes in the discs do not always come out to the value you would expect. Mainly because different powders take up more or less volume in the holes and also Lee tends to err on the light side of what is stated a given hole will give you. I found out the hard way, and it is a lot more hassle to change the discs to get the amount you want as apposed to simple adjusting the charge bar for to value you want. Plus you can use a disc in conjuntion with the charge bar for larger drops. Which would be plenty for .44 caliber cases.

 

[MrPeter]

Alright! There is NOTHING more fun than helping somebody spend their money! Ok, put this on your list - get a set of Lee dippers. I don't care what press you buy, how much you spend on scales or anything else, the guys have it all covered above. But get the dippers. One of the most handy things on the bench. And +1 for what dsv424 says about the Lee. But everyone has their favorite, get what will make you happy. You'll be using it a lot more than you think you will!

Ok, what's a Lee Dipper?

Thanks for all the thoughts and discussion on my behalf folks. I appreciate all of your input!

To address rfwobbly's point about the Lyman coming with so much more, I have to say that is part of the reason I started this thread. I understand that the Lyman comes with more, but the press itself didn't seem like it could crank out cases quite as fast, nor was it as easy to change the die-holding discs. I was not sure if the press, the base of the kit, was what I wanted in the first place, and if I got the press I thought I would rather have, if the extras were worth a crap.
As with most kits of most any nature, You buy one main thing that is bundled with accessories for a lower price than you would buy them all separately. However, a lot of the time a good amount of the accessories are such crap that no one buys them separately for full price anyhow. This is why they make the kits: to move some of the inferior product that they wouldn't sell anyway, and people will upgrade anyhow later making the company more $$$, and to make the original main product (the press in this case) seem more appealing.

I mainly wanted to get the best combination of stuff all in one shopping cart so I could make my own more complete kit, and see what needed to be replaced and what was not included to begin with.

It looks like you folks have mostly done for me, and I thank you. My current shopping cart which I will go and pick up this Thursday is in post #21 of this thread, and has been updated as comments and recommendations have come in. If there is anything in that list that isn't needed or should be something else, or if there is something missing from that list, please say so!!!

And lastly, I would like anyone concerned to know that I will be taking my time to read all the books I get and viewing some videos before I even unpack the stuff I get. I understand the gravity of potential consequences if I make a mistake. I will be mastering one step at a time before I go into mass production (which I only plan to do once the weather is less shooter-friendly in these parts), so there is plenty of time for me to practice.