Some help, please from those who know much more than me. My S&W Model 29-3 is malfunctioning. Occasionally, when the cylinder is swung back into "battery", the gun locks up...it cannot be cocked and/or the trigger cannot be pulled, though everything seems to line up properly. Can happen on any or all holes, then sometimes decides to work properly. The cylinder release latch seems a bit rough, but appears to work properly. I've had the gun many years, but has seen relatively light use...perhaps one box f CorBon 260gr, otherwise nothing more than modern factory loads of 240gr (and less than 2-300 of those). Accuracy, when it works, seems to be fine...ideas?
Help! What's wrong w/ my Model 29-3???
- Thread starter Jst1mr
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454PB
Member
The first thing I'd check is the ejector rod. They tend to loosen and tie up the action. It is threaded backwards, so righty loosey, lefty tighty.
pbearperry
Member
When you clean it do you clean under the ejector?The part that looks like a star?Sometimes if that area gets gunked up it will bind the cylinder up.
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
The S&W warranty is lifetime for about '97 or so and up. Prior to that, it was a limited warranty and yours would long be out of that. They MIGHT do it, but it's not too likely.
Once a revolver hits 20 years or so old, I find that a lot of them have lockwork issues if even moderately used. The reason is over-lubrication and improper lubrication by previous owners.
My drill with any non-perfect action on a used revolver is this:
1)remove grips, open sideplate. This is NOT an intuitive process. If you don't know how to open the sideplate, check out the FAQ's in the forum below and it will describe it. Main things, 1) dont' damage the screws 2) don't interchange the screws when re-assembling - keep them separate when removing, the front two are easy to confuse 3) don't pry the sideplate off, vibrate it off.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/530103904
2) look around for dried varnish or gunk from previous use of WD-40 or other inappropriate lubes. This will gum up works over time as well as attract powder residue and lint, etc.
3) clean the inner lockworks out with brake cleaner thoroughly until everything is spotless. Brake cleaner work great and evaporates away. Kroil is also good, but if you use that, finish with brake cleaner to get out any residue left behind from the Kroil.
4) blow out with compressed air if possible, or get a can of it.
5) lubricate only sliding, bearing, and pivot surfaces very lightly with an appropriate lubricant - gun oil, 3-in-1 oil, a dab of motor oil or ATF.. Lightly - apply with a q-tip, actually.
6) Re-assemble, noting hammer safety installation - put the hook on the rebound slide stud and body in the sideplate groove.
Do not over-lubricate by routinely oiling or spraying excess oil in via the hammer slot, hand window, or trigger arch.
This cures 98% of action problems on lightly/moderately used older S&Ws. It may not cure your problem, but it's a cheap first step before heading off to the gunsmith. You've already checked your ejector rod and star, so there really aren't any more user-serviceable parts on the outside.
Once a revolver hits 20 years or so old, I find that a lot of them have lockwork issues if even moderately used. The reason is over-lubrication and improper lubrication by previous owners.
My drill with any non-perfect action on a used revolver is this:
1)remove grips, open sideplate. This is NOT an intuitive process. If you don't know how to open the sideplate, check out the FAQ's in the forum below and it will describe it. Main things, 1) dont' damage the screws 2) don't interchange the screws when re-assembling - keep them separate when removing, the front two are easy to confuse 3) don't pry the sideplate off, vibrate it off.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/530103904
2) look around for dried varnish or gunk from previous use of WD-40 or other inappropriate lubes. This will gum up works over time as well as attract powder residue and lint, etc.
3) clean the inner lockworks out with brake cleaner thoroughly until everything is spotless. Brake cleaner work great and evaporates away. Kroil is also good, but if you use that, finish with brake cleaner to get out any residue left behind from the Kroil.
4) blow out with compressed air if possible, or get a can of it.
5) lubricate only sliding, bearing, and pivot surfaces very lightly with an appropriate lubricant - gun oil, 3-in-1 oil, a dab of motor oil or ATF.. Lightly - apply with a q-tip, actually.
6) Re-assemble, noting hammer safety installation - put the hook on the rebound slide stud and body in the sideplate groove.
Do not over-lubricate by routinely oiling or spraying excess oil in via the hammer slot, hand window, or trigger arch.
This cures 98% of action problems on lightly/moderately used older S&Ws. It may not cure your problem, but it's a cheap first step before heading off to the gunsmith. You've already checked your ejector rod and star, so there really aren't any more user-serviceable parts on the outside.
Yes there is!
Take off the thumb-piece nut & thumb piece and see if there is packed dirt holding the cylinder latch from moving all the way back when the cylinder is closed.
Just a weed seed in there is enough to keep the action from working because the cylinder latch also locks up the hammer when the latch is pushed foreword to open it.
rcmodel
Yes, that's right. I thought about removing the thumb piece when responding and forgot to add it. I did forget, like you pointed out, that in the forward position it locks the hammer. Hopefully that might set him up right! If it doesn't get, in there and clean her up!
It could also be caused by the spring loaded cylinder pin in the center of the ratchet star binding up on dried oil & crud.
That could fail to push the cylinder latch back all the way, and also lock up the gun.
The spring in it basically has to over-power the spring in the thumb piece when the gun is closed to hold it back.
rcmodel
That could fail to push the cylinder latch back all the way, and also lock up the gun.
The spring in it basically has to over-power the spring in the thumb piece when the gun is closed to hold it back.
rcmodel
Confederate
Member
Does the gun seem to function correctly with no ammo in the gun? Also, is there any lateral (horizontal) play in the cylinder?
With cartridges in the cylinder and the gun not cocked, do you see a space between the case head and the rearward portion (shield) of the gun? In other words, can you tell where the gun is binding?
Sometimes gunk forms in the chambers themselves and cause the cartridge not to fully seat. That pushes the case head out to where it binds on the recoil shield. If you have some expended cases, check to see if you can see light at both ends of the cylinder, between the cylinder and the forcing cone and between the case head and the shield. If you can find out where it's binding, that's a long way towards finding a solution.
With cartridges in the cylinder and the gun not cocked, do you see a space between the case head and the rearward portion (shield) of the gun? In other words, can you tell where the gun is binding?
Sometimes gunk forms in the chambers themselves and cause the cartridge not to fully seat. That pushes the case head out to where it binds on the recoil shield. If you have some expended cases, check to see if you can see light at both ends of the cylinder, between the cylinder and the forcing cone and between the case head and the shield. If you can find out where it's binding, that's a long way towards finding a solution.
Guys, thanks for your help! I have one question left (and please forgive my lack of knowledge about parts nomenclature). I have had the gun apart and decided that the problem indeed was that the thumbpiece for the cylinder release was not fully returning. BUT, it was not due to crud or gunk - it seems that the "nipple" in the center of the ejector (which engages the cylinder release) is "sticky" or perhaps needs polishing, (it makes the cylinder release thumbpiece travel feel rough when the cylinder is in place). Question - can I get into the internals of the ejector rod to deal with this?
Before disassembling stuff, get some good penetrant and spray it into the hole in the FRONT end of the ejector rod, then let the gun stand barrel up and see if it will penetrate into the rod. If that seems to help, then try using a piece of plastic or wood to just work the center pin (its end is that little nub you mention) in and out to free it up. If nothing works, we can talk about disassembling the ejector rod, which may have left hand threads.
(The cause of the problem is that the center pin is not pushing the bolt (which is what S&W calls the latch) back all the way, so it is stopping the hammer from moving. This is a safety feature to keep the gun from firing unless the cylinder is fully closed.)
Jim
(The cause of the problem is that the center pin is not pushing the bolt (which is what S&W calls the latch) back all the way, so it is stopping the hammer from moving. This is a safety feature to keep the gun from firing unless the cylinder is fully closed.)
Jim
Jst1mr,
I have recently had this identical problem with my -10. I pulled the cylinder off the crane, disassembled the ejector rod, and found that the center pin had slightly musroomed at the front of the pin so that it would not slide freely in the ejector rod tube. I don't know whether this was due to parts being out of spec with each other or what, but I used a stone to smooth down the burr that had formed on the end of the pin. Once that was honed properly, I lubricated, reassembled, and the gun has been better than new ever since. I hope this helps.
./Michael
I have recently had this identical problem with my -10. I pulled the cylinder off the crane, disassembled the ejector rod, and found that the center pin had slightly musroomed at the front of the pin so that it would not slide freely in the ejector rod tube. I don't know whether this was due to parts being out of spec with each other or what, but I used a stone to smooth down the burr that had formed on the end of the pin. Once that was honed properly, I lubricated, reassembled, and the gun has been better than new ever since. I hope this helps.
./Michael
Go with the penetrating oil and working the spring plunger until you get the gunk out.
DO NOT take the ejector rod assembly apart if you can avoid it!
It is factory torqued and is an assembly not intended to be taken apart by the casual user.
It is not easily taken apart, or re-torqued properly without the proper tools.
Pliers are often used on them, and that always results in damage to the gun!
rcmodel
DO NOT take the ejector rod assembly apart if you can avoid it!
It is factory torqued and is an assembly not intended to be taken apart by the casual user.
It is not easily taken apart, or re-torqued properly without the proper tools.
Pliers are often used on them, and that always results in damage to the gun!
rcmodel
rcmodel,
This is why you use a piece of heavy leather, rubber, or neoprene between the pliers and the part of the gun that you are gripping. Damage an old belt, not the gun.
./Michael
This is why you use a piece of heavy leather, rubber, or neoprene between the pliers and the part of the gun that you are gripping. Damage an old belt, not the gun.
./Michael
I use lead sheet, or an aluminum clamp block I made, but leather will work.
To each his own.
Unfortunately, most folks don't know enough to use anything except the pliers, and you see an awful lot of nice old Smiths with buggered ejector rod knurling.
I stand by my advice though.
S&W cylinder assemblys are best left assembled, unless there is a very good reason to take them apart.
rcmodel
To each his own.
Unfortunately, most folks don't know enough to use anything except the pliers, and you see an awful lot of nice old Smiths with buggered ejector rod knurling.
I stand by my advice though.
S&W cylinder assemblys are best left assembled, unless there is a very good reason to take them apart.
rcmodel
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