Help with Browning Hi-Power

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MassMan

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My brother has a Hi-Power made in Belgium and is experiencing the following problems. When the gun is loaded by racking the slide, the gun will not fire when the trigger is pulled. When I cocked the trigger manually, the gun would fire, cycle a new round, and cock the hammer. Pull the trigger and nothing. Re-cock the hammer and it fires, recycles, etc. I am now well versed with the gun but am guessing it needs a new hammer spring. Does this sound right? Anything else I should be looking at, firing pin spring, etc?
Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
Week hammer spring, dirt in the firing pin channel, broken or bent firing pin or spring, missing pin on the hammer spring stud and etc. Clean this gun very good - with brake cleaner for example then test fire again. It can be the hammer spring, but it may be something not so obvious.

Boris
 
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Mizar,
Thank you for your reply.

The gun was cleaned by a gunsmith about a year ago and my brother didn't get around to shooting it until recently. Too long a time to take back to the gunsmith in his opinion. I removed the firing pin and spring and cleaned the channel. The firing pin is fine and the spring was strong. I will check the hammer spring stud, but if that was missing wouldn't that prevent the hammer from being cocked and then released when the trigger was pulled? The hammer spring "feels" good and looks to be attached properly. As previously mentioned, I am not real familiar with this gun and don't feel confident enough to tackle the sear w/o a video. I am a visual learner and need to see it done before I attempt it.
 
About the hammer stud - on a Hi-Power the hammer spring is a attached thru the bottom of the stud with a small nut and the nut is blocked from unrolling with a pin. If that pin is missing the nut will unroll from spring pressure causing the spring to loose tension and the gun will misfire. Can you find another HP and compare them - hammer spring pressure, firing pin protrusion via the firing pin stop, firing pin length? Is it a new gun, an old one, does it have rusted parts?

Boris
 
Mizar, the pin is present under the nut so I guess that part is fine, although I do have a question. Can that nut be tightened or does it screw on just to the point where the pin can be inserted? I ask this because if it could tighten would that drop the hammer with greater force? Also, there is no rust and the gun is of the mid 80's era I believe. The serial # is 225RP2xxxx.
Also I am attending my gun club's monthly meeting tonight and will ask if any members have a Hi-Power I can compare this gun to.
Once again, I really appreciate your time in helping me solve this problem. Thank you!
 
This nut can't be tightened beyond this point permanently - it will unroll from spring pressure, but you can try to tighten it a turn or two and see if that makes difference. You can order a replacement spring from Brownells and we will guide you throughout the installation process. But it is strange for a relatively new gun to have such an issue - except if someone did shorten the spring in attempt to lighten the trigger pull.

Boris

P.S. One more thing - if you have a caliper measure the firing pin's length ant post it here. Also, install the pin without it's spring and see if it is moving freely in the channel.
 
I am not real familiar with this gun and don't feel confident enough to tackle the sear w/o a video. I am a visual learner and need to see it done before I attempt it.
Click to expand...

The video "Introducing the Hi Power" on the page below is the absolute best thing out there. He shows you how to strip a Hi Power down to its component parts and re-assemble it.

http://www.celticarmory.com/media.html
 
Mizar.
The firing pin length is 57.20 mm. When I drop the firing pin into the channel it falls in freely, but I have to tap it lightly to get it to fall out. I will spray some gun cleaner into the channel to be sure it is absolutely clean.

Re: the hammer spring; from what I can see it was not cut.

I also checked the trigger spring and it seems fine. A friend let me borrow his Hi-Power so I could compare his to my brother's. With the slide off I cannot see anything that looks different. So maybe the gun needs a new firing pin spring. Let me know what you think.

And again, thank you SO much for your help.
 
Hello MassMan, I had the same problem on a Hi power Practical made in 1992.

I could pull the trigger, and nothing would happen. I could push the trigger forward, and it would fall, thumb cock the trigger, and it would work, rack the slide, and pull the trigger, and nothing.

I could pull the trigger and look under the hammer, though the tiny space, and see the sear release from the hammer, but nothing, unless I tapped the hammer with my finger.
 
help with Hi-Power

goste,
My problem is slightly different. I rack the slide and pull the trigger and nothing. But when I cock the hammer manually and pull the trigger, I get ignition.
Out of curiosity, were you able to correct the problem and how did you resolve it?
Thanks,
Ed
 
Gentlemen,
Interesting day at the range. Completely cleaned the gun to be sure nothing was gummed up. Re lubed everything and set out.
Loaded the first clip with 5 rounds. 1st 3 went as should, then a new problem arose. This time when the gun cycled a new round and I pulled the trigger the hammer fell part way to the 1st stop (or half cock position). I cocked the hammer manually and when I pulled the trigger, same thing. Hammer fell to 1/2 cocked position. I swapped out the firing spring and recoil spring and guide rod from my friend's gun (with permission) and the same thing occurred. Replaced the original parts and tried the gun again. Same thing, a couple rounds would fire normally and then the hammer would only fall to the 1/2 cocked position whether when cycled or cocked manually. Discouraged, I put the gun in my range bag and did some shooting with another gun. When I was ready to leave, something told me to give the Hi-Power another try. This time all went as should. Firing 5 shot groups in slow, rapid, and mixed rates the gun worked perfectly until I had fired 40 rounds of mixed brands and not a single hiccup.

Now, I have no idea what is going on but I will take it out one more time before returning it to my brother to be sure all is well. I sure hope it is cured.

Once again I want to thank all who provided input I sincerely appreciate it.
Ed
p.s. goste,
Me and my big mouth! :mad:
 
I think that your trigger return spring is not strong enough and / or the trigger arm that contacts the rocker in the slide has been shortened or modified.
Essentially, I think the pistol has been "gunsmithed by Bubba".

Roger
 
+1 to Roger. MassMan, try one test - cock the hammer and hold it with your thumb, pull the trigger all the way to the back and hold it there then slowly lower the hammer with you thumb and feel if there is any rubbing or resistance on its way down. If there isn't any resistance in hammer's travel then (maybe) someone (Bubba) did file down the full cock hammer hook in attempt to lighten the trigger pull - you will need a new hammer. But if you feel resistance then the problem will be in bend or altered trigger link (the rocker - it's on the slide), altered trigger arm (it's held vertical on the trigger, thru a slot in the frame), or altered sear or sear's pin.
Word of caution - every time the hammer falls to half cock the sear gets damaged and soon it will reach a point that it will not hold reliably the hammer to full cock.

Boris
 
Mizar,
When I hold and slowly release the trigger there is no rubbing. You said when the hammer falls to the 1/2 cocked position it damages the sear. I will once again show my ignorance. When I look at the schematic from Browning, I see #27 = sear lever type II and # 29 = sear spring w/ button. #27 goes on the slide and # 29 is in the frame. The sear you reference is the one that goes on the slide, correct? Also, could some dirt etc. have caused the 1/2 hammer drops. I am just wondering because after the 1/2 drops continued I field stripped the gun and swapped the recoil spring and guide from my friend's gun and the problem persisted. I then replaced the original spring and rod and put the gun away. I sat for 30 to 45 min. before I gave it a final try prior to leaving the range and it worked flawlessly through 35 to 40 rounds. Should I assume this problem may once again occur w/o warning.

When I hold the hammer and slowly release it there is no rubbing and there is enough tension to make holding the hammer difficult. The hammer tension feels the same on this gun and on my friend's gun. Therefore I do not think is a weak hammer spring, but I could be wrong.

I should also mention I cleaned all easily accessible parts with Kroil and hard to access areas with CLP. Many parts felt "sticky.tacky" prior to cleaning. I then used Slide Glide to lubricate the rails, recoil guide, and firing pin. I used Triflon on all the springs. It was after this cleaning that the 1/2 hammer falls began. Then after field stripping the gun before the final testing all went well.

One last question. Can I safely swap the slide on my brother's gun with the slide from my friend's gun. If my brother's slide works on my friend's frame that should eliminate any slide issues w/ my brother's gun, correct? Then I'd test my friend's slide on by brother's frame and see what happens. If the problems persist then it is definitely in my brother's frame. Does that make sense?

I look forward to you thoughts.
Thanks again,
Ed
 
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MassMan, on this manual, on page #9 the sear is marked with #28 on the diagram. http://media.browning.com/pdf/om/hipowermanual.pdf I think that the best advise is to take your gun to a gunsmith for a thorough check. I think that misfires and falling to half cock are related and are coming from someone filing the full cock notch on the hammer in attempt to lighten the trigger pull. But, without seeing the gun in person I can't give you an advise to change your hammer - it's an expensive part and I'm not sure that it is the problem - with a week trigger spring you can get the same results. But please do consider that I have been proven wrong in the past...
On slide swapping - generally yes, it's no problem, but first try it without the recoil spring and guide and feel if there is any resistance or rubbing that is not present with the original slide. And do keep barrel and slide matched. You can eliminate bent or altered trigger link (rocker) with that test.
If you feel confident enough to detail strip your pistol and take pictures and measures on some parts we can guide you if something is out of spec.
http://www.midwestgunworks.com/field_service_manual/browning_hi_power_field_service_manual.pdf Please, do read this manual - it has dis-assembly instructions and a troubleshooting guide.

Boris

P.S. If I were you I would send a PM to Mr. Jim Keenan - a very nice man and a very, very good gunsmith. Which, unfortunately, I don't know in person.
 
Hi, MassMan,

How about just posting here, unless you are cussing me out. Comments might help someone else.

Jim
 
MassMan.

That does sound like a Diff. problem, than what I had.

I posted my problem on the late Mr. Camp's, forum, and he advised me to strip the pistol down, and give the hammer a few lite swipes, with a fine hone stone, and see if it showed any high spots. I ordered his Very good takedown sheet, and while I didn't really find any high spots on the side of the hammer, I gave each side a dozen lite swipes.

I gave everything a real good cleaning, and when put back together, everything work's as it should. In my case tho, the damage had been done, as I was called in from patrol, to shoot our annual Dept. Certification, when this problem came about. Was sorta sick feeling, when I realized I had been carrying a non-working weapon, on duty. Since then I have put about a thousand rounds thu the pistol with no problems.

The hardest part of the strip, was finding a small enough punch, to knock out the pin on the Ambi. safety.

Sorry I can't offer any helpful Suggestion's. I hope you get it sorted out..........
 
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