help with wildcats

[sonier]

Im gona be starting my own gunsmithing busness soon, after college. but right now i had a great wildcat cartridge appear in my head and i can not find any wildcats of this sort online. what do i need to do to kinda patent if possible this wildcat?

 

[NCsmitty]

Unless your intended wildcat is off the wall (not sensible), it's probably been thought of before by someone at least as smart as you. No offense intended.


NCsmitty

 

[Jim Watson]

I doubt you can patent a cartridge shape.

You could copyright a kewl name, but it won't help much.
Jerry Gebby brought out the .22 Varminter and J.G. Jones the .30 Whisper. Everybody else just calls them the .22-250 and .30-221.

There are few truly original wildcat designs unless made by reforming some new factory gimmick brass. I know one long range target shooter with a 7mm x .270WSM because he wanted a little smaller case volume than 7mm WSM to balance out at a case full of powder.

Of course if you tell a dedicated wildcatter that, he will say "But MINE has a 32 degree shoulder and HIS has a 30 degree shoulder, so mine is DIFFERENT and BETTER."

 

[rcmodel]

I agree there isn't anything left that hasn't already been done at least twice.
Or sixteen times with minor variations.

rc

 

[buck460XVR]

Unless your intended wildcat is off the wall (not sensible), it's probably been thought of before by someone at least as smart as you. No offense intended.

I'm kinda thinkin' the same thing. 50 years ago there was a lot of "space" betweenst the various calibers for "niche" type wildcat cartridges. That ain't true anymore. Even pistol calibers have become so numerous that most gun shops can't stock all of 'em. Rifle and ammo makers have tested the waters with both new centerfire and rimfire to fill in any small voids left and some have disappeared as fast as they were introduced.

Is it possible to develop and patent a new caliber that will fill your needs and may well be the new .40S&W? Sure, and it's a noble desire. But to make a profit off it may be a horse of a different color. The investment to produce the ammo in quantities and the guns to fire them without the support of a major ammo/gun maker would be prohibitive to most and even then, the odds that another new cartridge would be that desirable are small.

Now instead of just a new caliber, maybe a whole new type of cartridge........

 

[helg]

You can patent something that contains technical innovation. Bullet jacket, steel core, gas sealing cartridge in Nagant revolver, and gas cutting design in silenced round were definitely patentable ideas. A wildcat cartridge, which differs from existing set only dimensionally does not contain any innovations, is not patentable.

You can trademark a headstamp though, and nobody can make rounds of this headstamp without your permission.

 

[sonier]

Well how can i determine if my wildcat cartridge has been created i, i do plan to have a name for it. its just the design is so dang simple im surprised its not popular for a wildcat.

where can i find a list of wildcats so i can kinda check mine too see whats been done with it

Thanks

 

[NCsmitty]

You need to check with the people who fabricate the reamers used in chambering.

Here's a link to Pacific tool and gauge. Check their listing or email for information.

http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/products.htm

There are several makers of good reamers.


Ncsmitty

 

[rcmodel]

http://www.gunshowbooks.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/st_prod.html?p_prodid=GS36952

http://wildcatintel.com/blog/?cat=3

Unfortunately, I know of no one source that covers every wildcat ever designed. There are just too many, and too many one-of's that never made it beyond the designers one rifle.

The reamer manufactures like Clymer Tool, Pacific Tool and Gauge, and Manson Precision make or have made about all the wildcat reamers in the last 50 years or more and would be a good resource to ask if it has been done before.

You could also peruse the reamer rental places and see if any are similar.
http://www.reamerrentals.com/default.asp

rc

 

[fireman 9731]

I know that you don't want to tell the whole world your secret... but maybe if you gave us a hint at what you are thinking of, we might be able to help more

 

[rcmodel]

Naw! I don't want to know.
If he tells us, he'd have to kill us!

rc

 

[sonier]

ok ok ok.......... well then, out here i do a lot of cowboy action shooting so i always love lever actions and revolvers. since i can always change the shoulder degree on my catridge well i can kinda tell you a teaser lol

name of cartridge im gona start chambering after schooling is..................
.......
.
.
.
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357/444 powers

its basicly a 444 necked down to a 357 and the shoulder degree im after is gona be similiar to a 30/30 winchester now if this all of sudden gets popular i know which people to murder lol

 

[steveno]

look at P. O. Ackley's reloading manual (Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders , Volume 1 & 2) and see if your idea for a wildcat hasn't already been tried. there will usually be a reason or two why it failed. I doubt you will come up with something that is really new. there are a lot more powders available today than there was back then so a lot of standard calibers are better performers because of that.

 

[Sunray]

"...444 necked down to a 357..." It'd be very similar to the .358 JDJ. Close to a .358 Win.

 

[rcmodel]

Been done.
.358 JDJ.
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/358jdj.html

http://www.mygunroom.com/dvgunshop/calibers.htm

http://www.handloadersbench.com/view_topic.php?id=4707&forum_id=17

rc

 

[sonier]

whats with all the loads im finding being heavy bullets. i dont see many lightweight bullets thrown out there.

yea still looking for that perfect wildcat still i guess lol

thanks rc

 

[rcmodel]

whats with all the loads im finding being heavy bullets.

J. D. Jones was / is into building guns suitable for hunting the T-Rex.

When you think about it, the main purpose of a .357/.444 wildcat is to get maximum velocity & power out of the caliber, for big game hunting at close/medium range, or silhouette shooting at long range.

Cowboy action is just the opposite.
The demand there is not for high velocity or big game performance.

If they could get a .357 bullet to go 200 FPS with zero recoil, and still knock down the targets at close range, everyone would be smiling!

rc

 

[moosehunt]

Have fun with your wildcat, but as well stated already--if it hasn't already been done exactly, it's been done so close as to be immaterial. As for patenting it, save your money. Even if you got a patent, the amount of change for someone to by pass your patent is miniscule. Rick Jamison developed a whole series of "Jamison" wildcats based on the .308 length .404 Jeffery case. Then Winchester came out with the WSM and Remington the SAUM, both of which are nearly identical to Jamisons "creations". He had the idea, got nothing but a few articles for his efforts. Have fun--and be aware that wildcats are expensive and never return other than pleasure!

 

[R.W.Dale]

LOL as previously mentioned there isn't anything you could conceivably come up with that hasn't already been done 3 or 4 times.

Talk about a bubble buster.

32acp to .22- DONE
6.5x55 to 30cal- DONE
22 hornet to 270-DONE

If weird stuff like this has already been done just think of how well covered sumpin normal such as a necked down 444 case is.

Even my 30ppc largo wildcat is mirrored by 3 or 4 other cartridges

 

[dubbleA]

Rick Jamison developed a whole series of "Jamison" wildcats based on the .308 length .404 Jeffery case. Then Winchester came out with the WSM and Remington the SAUM, both of which are nearly identical to Jamisons "creations". He had the idea, got nothing but a few articles for his efforts.

WHAT?
He lost his writing career over it, that's a given and is probably living the high life nowdays.

I dont think the truth has or ever will come out over the Jamison vs USRAC lawsuit, but I am a firm believer that Mr. Jamison was rewarded dearly by USRAC for patent infrigments.

I miss Rick's articles, he was one of the very few gunscribes that I liked.

 

[moosehunt]

Tell me more. How did that cost him his writing career? I also liked his writing, but since I very rarely buy magazines (basically never), I guess I didn't realize he no longer wrote. I have heard, though basically just rumor, that he is still in litigation with USRAC, which certainly doesn't compute, since they are bankrupt and out of business. Also, if he did get reimbursement, we sure haven't heard about it. I wonder why not? I built a .284 Jamison on a Mauser 98 action. It is my Ibex rifle, and I am very pleased with it.