Henry - Mare's Leg

[danez71]

Dane,
I'd disagree. Using it, yes. Using it well, no.

DPris, you can disagree if you'd like but unless you are missing a hand, you dont have any room to speak for those that are missing a hand.

I've seen double leg amputees run a marathon quite well. Better than some dual legged runners that have also trained for marathons.

Maybe they dont run the marathon "well" enough in your mind to participate?

Sure, we can start splitting hairs on what "using it well" means but it would probably be better if you would try not to jump to judgmental conclusions and realize that you dont make the determination for others.

 

[DPris]

Dane,
Dunno why you take such offense.
I'm not disparaging anybody who may be an amputee or otherwise one-handed. Nor am I suggesting in any way that any person or group of persons should not buy or enjoy one.

Merely saying there are certain physical attributes involved with this design package that render it much less practical for one-handed operation than a good revolver or auto-pistol.
No matter how determined such a person may be, or how much practice such a person may put in, that fact remains.

It is simply physically impossible to operate the ML quickly with one hand.
It cannot be fired anywhere near as rapidly from shot to shot with one hand as a revolver or auto. It can't be held as steadily on targets at longer distances freestanding or as long on those targets with one hand as a traditional handgun weighing half its weight can be.
Heavy recoil, and by that I mean HEAVY, can't be handled as well by one hand.

If you personally have lost the use of a hand, I'm not attempting to put you in a corner and tell you that you can't play, and I'm not suggesting that you have any less right to enjoy an ML than anybody else. I'm merely advising that the ML is awkward with two hands, much more so with one. In no way am I suggesting that a one-handed person should not "participate".

My definition of using an ML "well" lies within the context mentioned by some here who see it as either a personal defense gun or a hunting gun, and includes the ability to fire more than one round in a hurry, and to hold the gun steadily enough to engage a target at distances beyond 25 yards if necessary.
The ML, with even two hands, is a poor candidate for either use, and with one hand it cannot be done "well" by my definition of the term. "Well" involves speed and accuracy, neither of which are ML strongpoints with two hands, less so with one.

That definition implies no denigration whatsoever of one-handed individuals.
A 105mm howitzer is a crew-served weapon. It CAN be run by one man, but not "well" in the context of efficiency. The ML is a hand-served weapon, it CAN be run by one hand, but not "well" in the context of efficiency. Efficiency here meaning rapidly and accurately, in terms of payload delivery where a target needs to be engaged.

Plinking is totally different.

Scaat,
Yup, they do.
You can get the McQueen style, you can get a more traditional Old West style, and you can get either a backpack-type rig or a more modern belt holster for the things.
I should have a Mernickle (modern) holster here in about two weeks for my bobbed Rossi that's being worked on now.

Denis

 

[danez71]

My definition of using an ML "well" lies within the context mentioned by some here who see it as either a personal defense gun or a hunting gun.........

The ML, with even two hands, is a poor candidate for either use..........

Well.... I agree with you on those. Regardless of 1 hand or 2, its not a great choice of gun for those uses.

No hard feelings. I just didnt like the blanket statement.

 

[SaxonPig]

Well, I can explain why I prefer my HD to a Honda or a Kawasaki. I don't need to go fast. I prefer cruising and a Harley has a certain panache.

As for the mare's leg, yeah, I remember Steve McQueen in that TV show and I can understand cool and nostalgia. I guess this one just doesn't do it for me.

As for handling, I generally use both hands to shoot my pistols but I have the option of one handed operation with any of them. This thing requires the off hand be used to stabilize the gun during cycling the action via the lever, no?

Please don't tell me you spin it around on that loop to work the lever. That strikes me as particularly dangerous.

 

[DM~]

How many "hands" does it take to reload a handgun? Expecially a single shot like a contender.

DM

 

[SaxonPig]

Obviously it takes two hands to load and make any handgun ready to fire. My point is that once firing commences with a revolver or a semi-auto I can empty the gun with one hand. That Mare's Leg requires both hands to fire each shot.

 

[DPris]

The ML would be difficult to load with one hand. You'd need a method of holding the gun on a table or your lap while loading through the stiff loading gate.

Cycling the action normally requires one hand to hold the gun & the other to run the lever.
Without two hands, it'd be necessary to work out an alternative method of holding the gun still someplace & somehow while the single hand worked the lever. That'd be the safest.
There are ways to do it, but all would be slow & cumbersome.

The alternatives would depend on the lever type.

The Chiappa with its Type 2 wedgie can be partially backspun from a low-barrel position to cycle it one-handed. That involves discomfort to the hand & may or may not feed & chamber a round.

The Rossi with its ringlever can be spun from a high-barrel position, Rifleman/John Wayne style, but may not chamber a round.
(I tried that with a Rossi carbine several years ago, it'd dump dummy rounds neatly on the floor at my feet.) (My 16-inch Winchester 94 with a ringlever will cycle .30-30 rounds all day long when spincocking, incidentally.)
The Rossi ringlever can also do the low-barrel half-flip, with no discomfort to the hand. Again- may or may not chamber a round, but it'll cycle an empty gun just fine.

The Henry, if it uses their version of an irregular ringlever, could possibly be done either way. No idea if it'd feed & chamber a rimfire round.

The low-barrel "half-spin" of the wedgie would be marginally safer than the full spincocking with the ringlever.
Neither is advisable with live ammunition.
Denis

 

[pockets]

Does anyone know if adding a fat rubber, or leather pad to the rear end of the "grip" might make this a stocked pistol in the eyes of BATF of DOJ?

You do ANYTHING to the back end of a mare's leg to make it into a shoulder-fired weapon & you risk severe penalties if caught.

Look at the photos on Henry's website. Both have butt plates on them already. The .22LR version looks to have a thick hard rubber butt pad and the centerfire version has a brass butt plate.
.

 

[bigfatdave]

The ML would be difficult to load with one hand. You'd need a method of holding the gun on a table or your lap while loading through the stiff loading gate.

What loading gate?
http://henryrepeating.com/rifle-mares-leg.cfm

Did you even look at a picture of the guns under discussion?
To load you set the gun down or clamp it between your knees and you remove (partially) the magazine's inner tube, then you feed toe rounds into the loading cutout of the outer tube ... I've done it one-handed a few times on the H001L, actually.

Cycling the action normally requires one hand to hold the gun & the other to run the lever.
Without two hands, it'd be necessary to work out an alternative method of holding the gun still someplace & somehow while the single hand worked the lever. That'd be the safest.
There are ways to do it, but all would be slow & cumbersome.

Oh, you're right that they would be slower, I just don't see why anyone cares for a gun that is essentially a toy.
I'm rather sure that the folks at Henry are aware that someone is going to try the spin-cocking manuever, and that's why they put the big loop on. My little Henry carbine (H001L) doesn't care if it is sideways or inverted to feed a round, and it runs best when you slap the lever open and shut anyway ... I suspect that it will accept some one-handed action cycling method.
I'll likely try it with dummy rounds just for laughs, maybe I'll try it with live ammo to live out my Terminator lever-shotgun fantasies (ratshot!?!?), or maybe I won't ... the gun can't go bang without the action closed, so reliability of getting the spin completed and the action closed with the gun pointed into the backstop would be the deciding factor on whether I take a swing at it on an empty outdoor range.

===

Look at the photos on Henry's website. Both have butt plates on them already.

I wonder if there's room under that plate to drill out a cavity for tubed ammo and/or a NAA mini-revolver.
I've always wanted to find a way to store my mini-revolver onboard with my Lever Carbine, maybe I'll get motivated to try it now with the H001ML.

 

[DPris]

Pockets,
Let's clarify:
The question was about ADDING.
It appears the two images on the Henry website show stock nub dimensions equivalent to (or possible even shorter than) the centerfire versions by Chiappa & Rossi. The Rossi nub is one inch longer than the Chiappa. Neither is really compatible for firing from the shoulder. Both have steel buttplates.
The Henry's overall stock lengths as shipped include the plates. Same with the other two.

The issue is not the presence of a plate or pad (I don't believe what's shown IS a rubber pad), the issue is lengthening the stock nub from its too-short-to-fire-from-the-shoulder factory length & ATF-approved dimensions to adapt it to shoulder use.

If YOU add additional stock length beyond how the factory shipped the gun so you can fire it from your shoulder (without doing the federal process first), you risk severe penalties if caught.

I know Tony Imperato at Henry, he's not a fool, and there's no way he'd be putting out a mare's leg that does not meet with ATF approval.
That includes anything that would imply the gun can be shoulder fired.

What appears to be rubber is undoubtedly a synthetic black plate, those are usually thicker than a metal plate.

Dave,
If you'd followed the thread you'd have noticed it expanded into other versions besides the Henry MLs.
I was obviously not refering to the rimfire gun with my comment about one-handed loading through the gate.

The dangers of spincocking lie primarily in where the trigger finger & muzzle end up when the action closes.

Denis

 

[bigfatdave]

The dangers of spincocking lie primarily in where the trigger finger & muzzle end up when the action closes.

The danger is surely at that moment, which is why anyone with any sense would experiment with dummy rounds first before even thinking about trying it for real. (and I'd be heavily biased towards NOT trying it for real)

If you'd followed the thread

Oh, I've been following it and following the ML introductions waiting for one in .22__ to arrive, and I think a lot of the conversation has been downright silly. Mare's Leg guns are toys, regardless of their destructive power. I doubt anyone is getting one as a primary defensive arm, so worries about running one under time pressure should be limited to CAS/SASS.
And the running of ANY gun will require experimintation to perfect, which is what a little rimfire version is perfect for. Henry has the right idea selling a "buttless trapper" in .22lr (and I'm confident that it will run shorts and longs, too) as a toy, the price of the centerfire versions puts a damper on the potential buyer's ambition to own such an item, as it has little practical value beyond "range toy". I, for one, am not about to get into a new caliber and buy an expensive toy just for unloading that new caliber ... so a .22lr toy is perfect.

Just because someone has considered the possibility of running one one-handed doesn't mean they're dead-set on using one as a primary weapon, and even if they were set on such a silly plan:
1 - the silliness will be obvious the moment they pick one up
and
2 - it isn't my problem if they insist on putting a ML to serious use

I was obviously not refering to the rimfire gun with my comment about one-handed loading through the gate.

I wanted to ensure you didn't think you were referring to the .45LC version either. Henry is not putting a loading gate on these, in fact I'm not sure if Henry bothers to put a loading gate on anything. (which is fine with me, I'm tored of getting my fingers pinched or needing another round to push every round in the gate)

 

[ADKWOODSMAN]

The old Ithaca Auto Burglar single shot shotgun comes to mind, only a pistol and about a 10" barrel--no car jacking with this one along either.

 

[DPris]

Dave,
My commentary here & elsewhere is to advise those who feel the ML concept would be a great home defense gun, a great backpack gun, a great compact hunting gun, and a great bear defense gun, that it has severe deficiencies in all of those applications.
The "silliness" may very well become obvious the moment they try to use one in any of those roles, but by then the money's spent & somebody may be dead.

I'm not directing that commentary to you, since it isn't your problem, as you noted.
Feel free to ignore it.

For everybody else, buy or not, in any version, but do so as an informed buyer.

Denis

 

[DPris]

Email just now from Henry confirms the non-metal buttplate is black plastic.
NOT intended to aid shoulder firing.
Denis

 

[pockets]

Sure is a lot of hubbub over a baby-boomer toy.
I'll buy the rimfire version sometime this year....just for giggles. It'll go nicely with my Goldenboy and H001. I will not over-analyze the purchase though...it's just another toy.
.

 

[DPris]

A toy it is.
I've seen far too many people across several gun forums trying to project the gun into being something it isn't.
Not a thing in the world wrong with buying another toy.
Denis

 

[ironhead7544]

DPris: That was a joke about the 1886. But considering the trend to this type of gun I wouldnt be too surprised to see one.

 

[DPris]

Iron,
Hard to know who's yokin' & who's not at times.
Such a gun would be dangerous at either end.
Denis

 

[halogrinder]

Obviously it takes two hands to load and make any handgun ready to fire. My point is that once firing commences with a revolver or a semi-auto I can empty the gun with one hand. That Mare's Leg requires both hands to fire each shot.

does it really take two hands to shoot a handgun?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlMz2sCDCA4&feature=player_embedded

 

[dodo bird]

Kinda the same thing, but I would like a Howdah pistol. Just for kicks (pun intended).

 

[scaatylobo]

fyi,the Ithaca Auto & Burglar is a side by side 20 gauge with pistol grip only [ in the most seen model ].

 

[lizziedog1]

Some folks think that Pugs are cute. Some guys might think that Rosie O'Donnel is hot. Some shooters think that these guns are neat looking. I think all three belong in the same category.

 

[M2 Carbine]

All this talk reminds me I haven't shot mine in a while. I think I'll go take care of that.

Kinda the same thing, but I would like a Howdah pistol. Just for kicks (pun intended).

Haven't shot this one in a while.



Or this one either.



Just can't wait until I get a bullpup Kel Tec shotgun.

 

[potmetal]

I was in a pawn shop/gun store in Aurora, Mo. yesterday and they had the .22 Henry mare's leg on the shelf. Price was under $400, if I remember right, but I don't remember the exact price. I didn't handle it, I had other things in mind.
Henry is a good company and I'm sure it'll be a great gun to play with.
Just wanted to let you know that they are out there now. Hopefully those of you looking for one will find one at your local store soon too.

 

[Delford]

Being a baby boomer I like the looks as I enjoyed "Wanted..." In .22 it would be a fun plinker. Not too expensive so it might be a fun toy. In any other caliber the ammo costs rise and the budget restricted can't play as much. I've got my "Ray Gun" Beretta Neos .22 for cheap fun and my P345 for CC. I pay about .35 a round for .45 target fmj and shoot 50 to 100 rounds each time I go shooting. That keeps me within budget and ripping up those Targetz. If my budget ever loosens up in this economy I can consider the Rossi or Henry alternatives, but that may be a few more days.