Here we go... Dry Firing.

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I usually make my own dummies.

One hangup there is on .22s. Although they make plastic dummies in .22LR, I have found them unsatisfactory. What I do is take a fired .22 case and clip off a portion of the rim with a pair of flush cutting diagonal cutters ("dikes") and insert that case into the gun with the cut-out portion under the extractor. Thus, you can manipulate the action for re-cocking without extracting the case. (When done, of course you need a rod to push out the case.)

These "cutaway" dummies don't last very long --perhaps 20 or 30 cycles --but then again, neither do the plastic commercial .22 dummies.

Flush cutters can be obtained from electronic parts outlets, although other methods can be used to remove part of the rim. Needless to say, you should not do this with a live cartridge. That's my lawyer talkin'.

Incidentally, if needed, using a cutaway case deactivates a rimfire gun for unauthorized usage because it won't feed a live cartridge into the "dummied" chamber. A cleaning rod is needed to extract the case and reactivate the arm.
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Folks should take note of this great idea.

The most irritating part of dryfire practice with a .22lr pistol is retracting the slide far enough to re-cock the action, but not so far that it ejects the empty casing
 
ObsidianOne said:
I'm not sure if people are 100% sure if dryfiring hurts modern firearms (I'm not aware of this).
However, I made the decision to purchase a pack of snap caps and my reasoning was this:
What's more expensive, firearm failure and repair or a pack of snapcaps for >$15 (depending on caliber).

As I said, I bought the snap caps :)
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Ditto. I understand the facts and that in most cases, centerfire is fine to DF and rimfire is not. OTOH, what is the difficulty in using snap caps? I have a set for every caliber and use them when I dry fire without exception. Yes, it's a bit of a 'belts and suspenders' type of solution, but the cost and complexity is low, and the expense of failure is high.
 
"I don't make a habit of dry-firing rimfires, but at the same time, I don't avoid dropping the hammer on the last round on my .22 autos. This means I dry-fire at least once per magazine."

Most of the time in that situation, you can arrest even an internal hammer's fall by holding the action open a trifle. The hammer then hits the breech block instead of the firing pin, and the breech block is a much stouter hunk of metal.

I do this all the time with my Ruger autos when putting them away or when clearing them --just retract the slide a little bit and pull the trigger. I usually count my shots for some unknown reason, been doing it for decades, and sometimes I miscount and drop the hammer on an empty chamber accidently anyhow. But for clearing a weapon, this method usually works well.

This also works with many bolt rifles, .22s and centerfire. If you pull the trigger and then start lowering the bolt, the striker spring will almost close the bolt for you without causing it to suddenly snap forward and hit its internal stop. Also sometimes works with internal hammer rifles.

Terry, 230RN
 
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Do not dry fire the kel-tec pistols or you'll be really sorry when you try to remove the frankenbolt that holds the extractor in place and also serves as a firing pin stop.

Dry firing allows the firing pin to slam unopposed into the end of threads of the bolt. The threads get peened over and the bolt can never be removed without damaging its threads and the threads in slide.

But if you must dry fire then I guess it must be done.
 
I don't make it a habit to dry fire my rimfires or CF bolt guns.


Take a 1911, for example. The firing pin extends quite far when there's nothing in there to hit. This compresses the firing pin spring more than when it's actually firing. If you do it a lot, you might end up with a broken firing pin spring sooner than expected. No big deal if you have time on your hands and a replacement. Might be a big deal if it's your only gun and you don't have a spare spring, or if you can't replace it yourself.
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When shooting match 45's dry fire was the order of the day. I've not seen a problem. For my own 1911's, I know how to fix them.
 
The manual for my Kahr CW9 says it's safe to dry fire. Over a period including around 8,000 live fires and more than 10,000 dry fires (without snap caps) I've had to replace broken strikers twice (which I can do myself).
 
makarovnik said,

Do not dry fire the kel-tec pistols or you'll be really sorry...
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Previously noted but worth repeating.

Kel-Tec replaced my PF-9 receiver with a new one with the same serial number, but I sure as heck didn't need the shipping back and forth hassle, and they didn't even send it back with the belt clip that was installed on it.

Their instructions say not to dry-fire the PF-9, but sometimes it happens accidentally. Like when a misfeed occurs and you're not aware of it and you pull the trigger anyhow. Mine misfeeds a lot, which is how I found out about the breakage from dry firing, or otherwise pulling the trigger on an empty chamber.

Terry, 230RN
 
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I'm sorry that you feel that way Terry. I damaged my PF-9 dry firing it but it still functions fine.

Dry firing is usually OK unless the manual specifically prohibits it. Snap caps aren't that cheap and some types wear out.

If you're dry firing thousands of time you're probably training for something; it would be a real shame to wallow out the firing pin hole in your breach face dry firing and have a failure in the middle of whatever you're training for.
 
How about Enfield #4s, #5s, the Spanish FR8 and the Garand or SKS?
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I have seen it mentioned that extended dry firing on the SKS can crater the bolt face to some degree which can increase the risk of popped primers during live fire. I am not sure how much is too much, but I would think it would be quite a bit of dry fire practice. If it worries you, you can just pull the bolt and remove the firing pin if you are just dry firing at home for instance.
 
It's obvious none of you have attended Front Sight Training Institute. Every time I read the phrase "dry fire" I cringe. We were taught to use the phrase Dry Practice to get away from the idea of firing the gun. I guess it is a mindset issue. If you just think of it as practice you reinforce the idea of not having live ammo around you when you practice. Less of an opportunity to have a negligent discharge. At least that's the way I interpret it.
 
I expect problems with that pf-9. Having had one of the early ones, it was always something. Too bad the size was great. But too many misfeeds and ejection problems, even after I did get it running right, it failed to fire the 147 grain rounds, which is common on older models.And it did have a warning in the manual about not dry firing it.Mine only fired 115 grain Remington jhp or FMJ. Other than that it was always something. They are the Austin Healys of the gun world.I know some guys swear by them, but it's like women one guy maries her and thinks she's great, and another wonders what the heck he was thinking.
 
Some people get entirely too wrapped up in semantics. Changing the name of the practice doesn't impart any more or less safety to it.

Since I rarely talk to myself out loud anymore, I don't announce , "I think I'll do some dry fire practice now." I just clear the firearm and do it.
 
You may not verbally announce "Dry Practice" and to be honest I don't always do it myself. The point I was trying to make was that Front Sight teaches that technique to many newbie’s and to them it is necessary to drive home the safe handling of firearms. Maybe those here don't need it but it does no harm to emphasize it once in awhile. IMHO
 
84B20 said:
It's obvious none of you have attended Front Sight Training Institute. Every time I read the phrase "dry fire" I cringe
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Attributing a practice to Front Sight doesn't give it additional creditability, when you infer that folks who may not have attended that facility may have missed an opportunity...it is also a bit presumptuousness.

Not attributing it to the training facility that actually originated the use of the term, makes me cringe.
 
9mmepiphany said:
Attributing a practice to Front Sight doesn't give it additional creditability, when you infer that folks who may not have attended that facility may have missed an opportunity...it is also a bit presumptuousness.

Not attributing it to the training facility that actually originated the use of the term, makes me cringe.
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I don't pretend to presume anything. I was just stating what I have learned after taking several courses at the facility. It was my attempt to make the point that safe handling of firearms begins with the proper mindset.

I may not have been involved in the firearms industry as long as you and don't know the originator of the term so I'll leave it to you to relate it. I don't want anyone else to have to cringe. :)
 
It's obvious none of you...
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Maybe I mis-understood, but when stating something is obvious usually means you are presuming it.

The term comes from Gunsite, was used by Chuck Taylor (who was the head instructor there) who taught it to Ignatius Piazza who used it in his Front Sight program
 
It is hard to estimate the number of dry fires I do, but have good reason to believe it is a few thousand in a typical month. I am currently shooting an M&P.

Snap caps are expensive, and wear very quickly. As far as what is more expensive, I guarantee I'd wear out the cost of the gun in snap caps long before I'll ever break anything in the gun from dry firing.

Stuff wears when you use it. Not a big deal. If a firing pin or spring pops, replace it and move on. If you actually shoot and practice with the gun, any of these expenses are trivial compared to ammo anyway.
 
9mmepiphany said:
Maybe I mis-understood, but when stating something is obvious usually means you are presuming it.

The term comes from Gunsite, was used by Chuck Taylor (who was the head instructor there) who taught it to Ignatius Piazza who used it in his Front Sight program
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From all that I have heard and read, Gunsite is a great training facility. The only problem I have with them is the cost, and yes, you get what you pay for in most instances. And I know a lot of people have an issue with the way Piazza markets his facility but they do get a great number of students and that can only be a positive influence on our 2nd Amendment rights. I have a Diamond membership and it cost me much less than one course at Gunsite. I took 3 courses last year, one this year so far and am scheduled for another two courses in a couple of months. I could not afford that many courses at Gunsite. And by the way, the instruction was, in my opinion, excellent.
 
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In the last 5 to ten years, the popularity of firearms has gotten so great that all kinds of businesses have opened 'around" them. When I got my first gun, there was no one to train you. back in the late 60's and permit in the 1972.
My uncles were all ex-soldiers, in all 4 out of 5 branches. One was a pretty good gunsmith. But there was not such an emphasis on the particulars of shooting. I learned from my dad, "who served in 2 armies, including the Air force here in the US, and the Greek army where his dad had left the states to go back to fight in. They all were hunters except my father, I can't help but feel, "and don't take this the wrong way" that it has become more of a "money making thing" than something that the normal guy who carries for self-defense, needs. I can see it if you shoot competitively or just enjoy it as a vacation with a bunch of likeminded friends. But it seems like sometimes people are convinced that they need more training than the secret service. Having been doing this, "shooting", mainly pistols, many things that I read are over the top for the average guy who somehow is being told he should take this class also. If you work in law enforcement like "Swat" you may, but even special ops don't take some of the courses offered. And so much of it is just common sense, that it sometimes makes me ask myself if some folks have talked themselves into thinking they need this .
I always listen to someone who shows me he can do things that I cannot. But have seen too many so called instructors who talk a good game, but couldn't shoot worth a darn. I shoot to stay alive and also enjoy the sport, not the other way around, I don't live to shoot, But that's just me. When I speak to retired Marine snipers, who did this as a career and taught it in the Marines, they make it very simple. I think that when you over think something, "no matter what it is", you make it more complicated than it needs to be. And fortunately I, just have good eye hand coordination, that is something you can't teach. I have close friends who just can't hit anything, even after sitting and explaining to them what they were doing wrong, and others who "like my wife" picked up my 45 and was able to put all 10 rounds on the paper at 25 feet. She also is good at any eye hand sport or work. I believe anyone can be taught to be better if they "want" to. Many men just refuse to take responsibility for anything that they just don't do well. Like sports for instance, "I have a cramp, this ball is too smooth etc. Please don't take it the wrong way, if you choose to spend your time and money on this advanced training and I spend mine on something else, that's our right "for now", under our current administration, but the necessity of engaging in any sport or interest is entirely up to the individual as to how far the wish to take it, and what they really need vs want. I also think that everyone should have as much time as necessary to learn the basic skills. And if it's your favorite thing to do by all means pursue it, it's just the attitude that you have to learn this method, it's better than what you use, that makes me uncomfortable. I don't care what school you went to, can you hold your own when you are confronted by several armed men who mean you harm, or did all the training courses go out the window? By the way, I usually only dry fire my own weapons, upon reassembly, to make sure the firing pin works as it should. I use a #2 or 3 pencil with a new eraser head on it, and if it flies out of the barrel, I know everything is where it is supposed to be. I have been doing that for 30 years when I read it some ware. and it is a great way to make sure your gun is more than likely going to fire.
Education can never hurt, but just how much do you need vs practice.I agree that punching holes in paper from a seated or standing position, is for the most part a waste of time and money, and being able to simulate a real world situation is far better.Unfortunatlly there arent too many places in cities that you can do the right drills.
 
gym said:
In the last 5 to ten years, the popularity of firearms has gotten so great that all kinds of businesses have opened 'around" them. When I got my first gun, there was no one to train you. back in the late 60's and permit in the 1972.
My uncles were all ex-soldiers, in all 4 out of 5 branches. One was a pretty good gunsmith. But there was not such an emphasis on the particulars of shooting. I learned from my dad, "who served in 2 armies, including the Air force here in the US, and the Greek army where his dad had left the states to go back to fight in. They all were hunters except my father, I can't help but feel, "and don't take this the wrong way" that it has become more of a "money making thing" than something that the normal guy who carries for self-defense, needs. I can see it if you shoot competitively or just enjoy it as a vacation with a bunch of likeminded friends. But it seems like sometimes people are convinced that they need more training than the secret service. Having been doing this, "shooting", mainly pistols, many things that I read are over the top for the average guy who somehow is being told he should take this class also. If you work in law enforcement like "Swat" you may, but even special ops don't take some of the courses offered. And so much of it is just common sense, that it sometimes makes me ask myself if some folks have talked themselves into thinking they need this .
I always listen to someone who shows me he can do things that I cannot. But have seen too many so called instructors who talk a good game, but couldn't shoot worth a darn. I shoot to stay alive and also enjoy the sport, not the other way around, I don't live to shoot, But that's just me. When I speak to retired Marine snipers, who did this as a career and taught it in the Marines, they make it very simple. I think that when you over think something, "no matter what it is", you make it more complicated than it needs to be. And fortunately I, just have good eye hand coordination, that is something you can't teach. I have close friends who just can't hit anything, even after sitting and explaining to them what they were doing wrong, and others who "like my wife" picked up my 45 and was able to put all 10 rounds on the paper at 25 feet. She also is good at any eye hand sport or work. I believe anyone can be taught to be better if they "want" to. Many men just refuse to take responsibility for anything that they just don't do well. Like sports for instance, "I have a cramp, this ball is too smooth etc. Please don't take it the wrong way, if you choose to spend your time and money on this advanced training and I spend mine on something else, that's our right "for now", under our current administration, but the necessity of engaging in any sport or interest is entirely up to the individual as to how far the wish to take it, and what they really need vs want. I also think that everyone should have as much time as necessary to learn the basic skills. And if it's your favorite thing to do by all means pursue it, it's just the attitude that you have to learn this method, it's better than what you use, that makes me uncomfortable. I don't care what school you went to, can you hold your own when you are confronted by several armed men who mean you harm, or did all the training courses go out the window? By the way, I usually only dry fire my own weapons, upon reassembly, to make sure the firing pin works as it should. I use a #2 or 3 pencil with a new eraser head on it, and if it flies out of the barrel, I know everything is where it is supposed to be. I have been doing that for 30 years when I read it some ware. and it is a great way to make sure your gun is more than likely going to fire.
Education can never hurt, but just how much do you need vs practice.I agree that punching holes in paper from a seated or standing position, is for the most part a waste of time and money, and being able to simulate a real world situation is far better.Unfortunatlly there arent too many places in cities that you can do the right drills.
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Not to be disrespectful, but you obviously have no idea of the quality of training that can be had at some of the schools available and how it can benefit the average person. I can only relate what I experienced at Front Sight. I wasn't going to publish this on a forum but after reading your post I feel I probably should. And, incidentally, the range masters have always demonstrated their abilities at all of the courses I attended.

The evening of Friday, December 30, 2011, my wife and I had attended a book signing and lecture by John R. Lott, Jr., the author of More Guns Less Crime at a bookstore in Santa Fe, New Mexico. After the lecture, we were to meet some friends at a local restaurant for dinner. We had parked in a downtown parking lot and as we crossed the street we were approached by two men, one I remember had a hooded sweatshirt. They had been walking in the street next to the parked cars and began to separate and one of them started to walk behind us. My wife had been walking a couple of feet behind me as we had learned to do so as not to make us a better target. I was in my normal mental awareness state of yellow so I was immediately aware of these two individuals. As the one who had been walking towards me started to talk, I immediately put up both of my hands and shouted back off! It seemed to surprise him and he instantly changed direction, walked away and said “Ok, brother.” I feel very lucky that all turned out well, without injury to anyone, other than to my nerves. Now, I don’t know for sure that they were planning on anything but I feel thanks to my quick action I never have to know.

I credit my training at Front Sight for the training my wife and I received that helped keep us in the right frame of mind as well as the actions I took to avoid a serious incident.

I did make three mistakes that evening, though. One, we should not have walked across the street in the middle of the block, instead go to the corner and cross. Two, I should have had my flashlight in my hand until we had reached our car and three, I should have immediately called the police to report the incident. The first one reporting the event would most likely believed by the police. I can imagine that if these two had been just innocent individuals or ones that had no police record and had decided to call the police and say I had been brandishing a weapon, which by the way I never had to do, I could have been is some trouble. Anyway, all turned out well and I now have a bit more experience to add to the training I have received at Front Sight.

By the way I sent this experience to NRA's American Rifleman for their Armed Citizen column. I don't know if it will be published but it could be a lesson in how to avoid such an incident.
 
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