Heres how i grip it, now im ready for yall to rip it

Status
Not open for further replies.
If ya carry an M1911, like the Good Lord intended, you don't need to shoot a DA trigger.:p
I've helped many 1911 shooters clean up their technique by letting them train with a DAO SIG equipped with the DAK trigger. :neener:

It really helped them stop flinching, make faster first shots and tightened their groups when shooting faster
 
Foot stance is a highly over-rated factor in handgunning.
I disagree. Grip, balance, and stance (foot placement and weight distribution) are all critical elements of shooting.
 
Foot stance is a highly over-rated factor in handgunning.
I disagree. Grip, balance, and stance (foot placement and weight distribution) are all critical elements of shooting.
You certainly are welcome to disagree, but your disagreement leaves open far more questions that it answers. (As 9mmepiphany points out.)

If you're shooting DCM/highpower, 3-position smallbore, traditional standard pistol/bullseye, and other such slow-fire precision marksmanship games, certainly you'll spend a lot of effort refining your whole body stance to achieve natural point of aim, good balance, least reliance on muscles to support the gun, etc.

But those sports have very (VERY) little to do with practical use of a gun in anything other than the formulized range setting of those specific disciplines.

Translate those things to shooting on the move, shooting around/over/under cover, shooting moving targets, and almost any other realistic shooting "problem" and that highly refined stance stuff goes completely by the wayside.

If your reaction to an immediate lethal threat involves getting into a solid shooting stance and positioning your feet just so, you don't need a lawyer on speed-dial so much as an undertaker...
 
No matter what you do you have to/want to hit the target. Once you can hit the target in the perfect setting/set-up, then you can start trying to hit the target while using a hula-hoop or something.
 
Yep -- practice shooting from an indexed grip. That's trigger finger outside the trigger guard. Shoot by closing your hand, bringing the finger into the guard as part of the squeeze
Thx for the info but im Not sure im following you Vern. So, at the beginning , your outside the guard, then come into the guard and immediately start the pull?
 
Also about the footwork, im not taking it that Sam and 9 are saying its not important, just that its over-rated?
 
Interesting Observation: Is the snap you are feeling on the SR9 a clean break or pushing over a hump in the travel. I have heard that Ruger had been improving their triggers, but haven't felt one yet. In the same vein, I've never felt a SIG 238 that didn't have a crisp break

I'm leaning towards clean break on the sr9. of course im just now kind of starting to pay attention to different triggers' "feel". It is definitely a very pronounced break. I will have to squeeze my p238 again when i get off work, maybe i jumped the gun on that explanation. pun intended
 
Sounds like you're slapping the trigger.

Google the Bump Drill and see how many bumps you can get...you should be able to get at least 4
Will do. Thanks. I have alot of trouble hitting where im aiming with that gun. My wife too, which is bad because im trying to ease her into shooting and she was really irritated that she couldnt hit anything with it. I cant even figure out how to tell where its hitting (sighting in type of thing)- we're all over the place with it. And she wont shoot the Sr9 because "its loud".
 
I guess slapping the trigger is self explanatory? Kind of like slapping the trigger...:)
 
It is definitely a very pronounced break.
A clean or crisp break shouldn't be pronounced. It should be a lack of feedback; it is there and then it isn't

I have alot of trouble hitting where im aiming with that gun. My wife too, which is bad because im trying to ease her into shooting and she was really irritated that she couldnt hit anything with it. I cant even figure out how to tell where its hitting (sighting in type of thing)- we're all over the place with it. And she wont shoot the Sr9 because "its loud".
Two things:
1. Time to get a .22lr pistol...like a Ruger Mk III or a Browning Buckmark
2. Move your target closer...3 yards isn't too close to start

I guess slapping the trigger is self explanatory? Kind of like slapping the trigger...
It's just a slightly different word for jerking the trigger. The connotation is that there is more windup before contact
 
At the end of it all the stuff we've posted is all about you holding the gun in a stable manner while you squeeze the trigger.

All the drills mentioned are to help you to learn to hold the gun in a stable and non interruptive manner while moving ONLY your one finger that is on the trigger. All the rest of it is "value added" stuff. Because if you can't learn to hold the gun and move that one finger without moving some or all of the rest of your hands then the rest of the stuff won't help you at all.

Just like a building has to rest on a stable foundation to avoid the walls sagging and doors becoming stuck your gun must rest in a stable non-moving grip in your hands that does not move before, during or after the big BANG!. Unless you can learn to do that the rest of the advice given, hand holding position included, won't help worth diddly.

On the other hand once you manage to learn to hold the gun without any movement other than that ONE FINGER then everything noted in this thread will see you shooting tighter groups more quickly. But without this one foundation ingredient you simply won't be able to see any big gains from the rest of the stuff.

I'd also suggest that you are very much at risk of beginning to overthink the whole thing and lose sight of the basics. And the most basic of the basics is that you need to hold the gun steady in a STABLE grip that does not alter during the trigger pull and through the BANG! event.

For now it doesn't even need to be the RIGHT sort of grip. It just needs to be a stable one.



OK, the soap box moment is over.... :D So what might be a good drill to start with to test this aspect? I'd say start out with some dry firing at a small spot on the wall to use for the focus point of the sights. While holding your sight picture on the spot pull the trigger smoothly to the rear travel limit. Don't suddenly let go when the trigger breaks. Instead your job is to pull the trigger back smoothly right through the break and HOLD IT at the rear for a good half second before relaxing and racking the SR9 to try again.

Watch the sight picture during all this. Does it jump even a little? If the answer is "yes" keep practicing. Try different amounts of grip pressure. If you're holding it with a tight "death choke" pressure it makes it nearly impossible to move your trigger finger with no effect on your hold. Relax and hold the gun in the same pressure you use for a firm but still friendly handshake. It makes it easier to hold in a stable manner while still allowing for trigger finger motion.

If the sight picture jumps up and down at all at the trigger break then you're flinching or clutching your grip. Work on isolating your trigger finger from the rest of your hand.

It sounds silly but try sticking your index and middle fingers of your support hand up and form a pistol like shape. Grip this with your strong hand and simulate pulling the trigger repeatedly. Concentrate on feeling for changes in the grip pressure along your "pistol grip" fingers. Work on this until you can move your trigger finger without feeling ANY pressure changes along your two "grip" fingers of your other hand.

I know this last bit isn't a typical drill and it is only one handed. But if you can't do this then you can't hold your gun stable either.

Getting back to the dry firing drill. If you see the sights jump side to side at the trigger break with no up and down motion then try moving your finger on the trigger to find the "sweet spot". Assuming a right handed shooter here if the sights kick left at the break then put your trigger finger through onto the trigger a little farther. If the sights break right put your finger through a little less.

When you achieve a stable hold with a neutral trigger finger position then at the click of the trigger break the gun will have a balanced pressure so the release of the trigger break results in just a click with no motion of the gun at all. That is what you're striving for.


My Case For A .22 Handgun-

A LOT of shooters have a terrible time with flinching and other grip stability related issues. The dry fire and other non shooting drills can help with this but in the end you know when there's going to be a big BANG! and when it isn't going to happen. And the mind can play on this so you learn to do the drills just fine but still flinch like a school girl at a slasher flic when shooting live ammo.

A lot of us find that the smaller "bang!" of a rimfire handgun is a happy middle ground. There's a "bang!" and some recoil so it forms a nice transition from zero kick dry firing drills to the bigger kick of a center fire handgun. It worked for me so well that I know have a nice arrangement of seven rimfire handguns that I enjoy both for their ability to maintain my training and conditioned detachment from the recoil of the center fire guns as well as the cheap fun shooting time they provide.

As a bonus your wife will likely enjoy a rimfire handgun as well since you mention that she's not keen on the noise and kick of your SR9.
 
thanks for the post BC. My dry firing with the sr9, since i changed to this grip over the last coupla days is going unbelievably. Almost no ,movement at all. I also feel that im not flinching very much either since last trip out i really concentrated on seeing the ejection, and i did well with that. I feel that my next time out im really going to see a big change since my dry firing has improved so dramatically. The little p238 that 9mmepiph was just mentioning- could be another story......... You bring up some very good points, like JUST HOLD THE FREAKIN GUN STABLE MAN!!! :) But kidding aside, i get your point totally. Kind of like when i played baseball- JUST HIT THE BALL MAN! Also a good point about over thinking- My wife would tell you that im quite well known for that, but im gona chill now, just go to the range and slang some lead at the target. One step at a time.
 
2. Move your target closer...3 yards isn't too close to start

I really like the sound of this and had wanted to do it with the p238..but my...whats that word...oh yea..pride, wouldnt let me. Screw it- Next time out, im movin it closer
 
A clean or crisp break shouldn't be pronounced. It should be a lack of feedback; it is there and then it isn't

Not pronounced-you totally summed it up-its there and then it isnt-their is just a pretty audible click that kind of makes it "sound" pronounced...
 
I really appreciate all of your help fellas, taking time to "help a brother out"! Thanks very much
 
Than how do you teach shooting on the move, reaching a shooting box or while off balance?
I teach those very well, thank you. My point is, the shooting "stance" is fluid and dynamic, and critical to shooting. Shooting as you are stepping into a "box" or while leaving a box utilizes a "stance" unless your feet are off of the ground. Likewise, your "balance" is critical while shooting whether you are moving or not. I think maybe my definition of a stance goes well beyond what some of you folks think of as a "stance". In my post I said, "...stance (foot placement and weight distribution).
 
Last edited:
Thx for the info but im Not sure im following you Vern. So, at the beginning , your outside the guard, then come into the guard and immediately start the pull?
Correct.

There are times when a prudent man will draw and decide not to fire (for example, if his assailant runs away.) The indexed finger technique is designed so that you don't fire accidentally, but can fire with no delay when you decide you have to shoot.

You simply close your hand to get the shot off. If you're using an M1911, or similar weapon, the act of closing the hand also takes the safety off.
 
I think maybe my definition of a stance goes well beyond what some of you folks think of as a "stance". In my post I said, "...stance (foot placement and weight distribution).
I think I just read it differently than you meant it. I didn't realize you were using two separate words to describe the same term.

I read it as "foot placement and weight distribution" in a static position...meaning "this foot just so...; that foot just so...; so much on this foot, so much on that..."

Usually the terms "fluid and dynamic" refer to movement, which I related to balance ... the constant shifting of weight from foot to foot, the sinking and rebounding.

I think the definition of stance that you are using is overly broad. I used the Merriam-Webster definition: b : the position of both body and feet from which an athlete starts or operates

I understand movement (again defined in M-W) as: a (1) : the act or process of moving; especially : change of place or position or posture ...which would seem to encompass fluid and dynamic

I'm not trying to limit how you choose to define terms. However, to use an uncommon definition of a term as a basis of disagreement, without initially explaining how you are using it, would seem fraught with peril, of being misunderstood, in even the kindest light
 
Stick your left hand out with the thumb pointed UP, as if you're going to shake hands.
Now rotate that down about 40-45 degrees so the thumb is pointed forward..
Slide that pose in high on the grip, covering as much of the grip as possible and locked over your strong hand finger tips.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top