Hi Folks- I can't find a solid answer on ATF site--please steer me to one

[Gunby]

Question--if I make a few black powder cap and ball revolvers-- replicas of let s say- the h&r Dictator rimfire revolver- only cap and ball

do the feds make me buy a license or some such foolishness?

thanks for being pro active with keeping the second amendment alive and well!

 

[Pat Riot]

This is from the ATFs FAQ page:
https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/general

This is what you’re looking for:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-individual-need-license-make-firearm-personal-use

 

[wiscoaster]

In summary: you can make a firearm for your own use. You cannot sell it or transfer it.

 

[Speedo66]

Does the ATF even consider a cap and ball revolver to be a firearm?

 

[MistWolf]

Black powder guns are not considered firearms by the ATF

 

[herrwalther]

It is legal to make firearms from scratch or 80% receivers/parts etc. You just cannot sell or transfer them to another person. I think cap and ball weapons are regulated even less but I still wouldn't transfer them to someone else without knowing for sure. If you plan to keep and use them yourself, its a moot point.

Black powder guns are not considered firearms by the ATF

Antique firearms.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firear...arms-ammunition-gun-control-act-definitions-0

 

[MistWolf]

An "Antique Firearm" isn't the same thing as a "Firearm". Cap & Ball handguns (and other blackpowder guns) are not considered firearms by the ATF. A purchaser does not have to fill out a Form 4473 or pass a NICS check. There is no federal regulation stating a prohibited person cannot possess or purchase one. You can order a cap & ball handgun online and have shipped directly to your home.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

In summary: you can make a firearm for your own use. You cannot sell it or transfer it.

That's not exactly true. Here's what the link states:
"No, a license is not required to make a firearm solely for personal use. However, a license is required to manufacture firearms for sale or distribution."

So, one can indeed manufacturer a firearm for personal use. If, after some unspecified amount of personal use one decided to sell, that is not prohibited.

It's a gray area, and I am not the one to probe the boundaries. However, it is technically legal to sell or transfer a self-made firearm, under certain circumstances.

 

[Ks5shooter]

Black powder guns are not considered firearms by the ATF

However some states do,NJ is one.

 

[Speedo66]

However some states do,NJ is one.

I know they also regulate air guns.

Kids with cap guns are suspect.

 

[LOLBELL]

However some states do,NJ is one.

California is another

 

[Odd Job]

Moved to legal

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

That's not exactly true. Here's what the link states:
"No, a license is not required to make a firearm solely for personal use. However, a license is required to manufacture firearms for sale or distribution."

So, one can indeed manufacturer a firearm for personal use. If, after some unspecified amount of personal use one decided to sell, that is not prohibited.

It's a gray area, and I am not the one to probe the boundaries. However, it is technically legal to sell or transfer a self-made firearm, under certain circumstances.

this is correct. It is indeed a gray area. That gray area usually is about number of home builds that have been sold and whether or not it appears to the agency the seller is trying to make a living out of it.

For firearms classified as such by the dot gov, a one-off build can be sold by applying a serial number to it and moving on with the normal transfer process. I won’t conjecture about how many is “too many” in the eyes of the government.

but i dont think any of this applies to the OP’s question. Make “a few” cap and ball revolvers? Like maybe 3? Of something the agency doesn’t even count as a firearm? And nothing being said about selling them? Go for it, man!

 

[AlexanderA]

Black powder guns are not considered firearms by the ATF

The key question is not the kind of propellant ("black powder") but, rather, the ignition system.

 

[deadin]

For purposes of this subparagraph, the term antique firearm shall not include any weapon which includes a firearm frame or receiver,

Wouldn't a strict reading of this include most C&B revolvers? They usually have a frame of some sort....

 

[12Bravo20]

The ATF is very clear about how they define an antique firearm.

18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(16)

The term “Antique Firearm” means:

A. Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and

B. Any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica

1. is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
   
   
2. uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
   

C. Any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term antique firearm shall not include any weapon which includes a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock or any combination thereof.

The above information is found by following the link that herrwalther posted above. It is also why you can still buy modern replicas of cap and ball pistols, flint lock pistols/rifles, and precision cap pistols/rifles and have them sent directly to your home without any paperwork.

I'll let others that are more knowledgeable in the FFL Manufacturing laws answer about making such pistols for resale.

As always check the state laws where you live. As mentioned some states do treat antique firearms the same as modern firearms. California, Illinois, and New Jersey are just a few.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Y’all, the original poster never said nothin’ about resale. Some other poster did.

 

[Frank Ettin]

An "Antique Firearm" isn't the same thing as a "Firearm". Cap & Ball handguns (and other blackpowder guns) are not considered firearms by the ATF. A purchaser does not have to fill out a Form 4473 or pass a NICS check. There is no federal regulation stating a prohibited person cannot possess or purchase one. You can order a cap & ball handgun online and have shipped directly to your home.

And exactly what does that have to do with the OP’s question about manufacturing such guns?

If anyone can provide information about state and federal statute and case law directly addressing the OP’s question, PM me, and I’ll consider re-opening this thread.