Hi indian made guns (again) and gunsmithing
- Thread starter Bobsen
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to date in the proofing experiment I have been running the results are as follows
we have tested the following barrels using the old English standard of a triple charge double ball load
the barrels are measured at room temperature with a micrometer at 3" intervals starting at the breech face.
we have tested various barrels from a number of makers and national origins
with only 2 failures out of almost 200 barrels
neither of the barrels that failed was Indian
one was an unmarked straight octagon barrel that blew out it's breech plug
the other one was an Armisport Enfield barrel that split just ahead of the breech. in fairness both of the failures were on used barrels that had been volunteered for this test and they were both pretty badly neglected
In the case of both failures, neglect and corrosion appear to be the major cause of the failures
If anyone has a barrel that has failed in normal use. I would love to get any information on when and where it failed and if the barrel was tested afterward to find out why it failed. also if ylu have a barrel that has failed . and is willing to have it tested I will pay for the testing and shipping both ways
we have tested the following barrels using the old English standard of a triple charge double ball load
the barrels are measured at room temperature with a micrometer at 3" intervals starting at the breech face.
we have tested various barrels from a number of makers and national origins
with only 2 failures out of almost 200 barrels
neither of the barrels that failed was Indian
one was an unmarked straight octagon barrel that blew out it's breech plug
the other one was an Armisport Enfield barrel that split just ahead of the breech. in fairness both of the failures were on used barrels that had been volunteered for this test and they were both pretty badly neglected
In the case of both failures, neglect and corrosion appear to be the major cause of the failures
If anyone has a barrel that has failed in normal use. I would love to get any information on when and where it failed and if the barrel was tested afterward to find out why it failed. also if ylu have a barrel that has failed . and is willing to have it tested I will pay for the testing and shipping both ways
Loyalist Dave
Member
Is that really a valid test for the Armi Sport barrel? If it's Italian, then it was proofed and stamped in Italy to the Italian, black powder, muzzleloading barrel standard, and as you previously posted, it's far less pressure than the English standard?
It does validate the point, however, that although a barrel passed proof at the proof house, due to neglect, it might not be safe now.
I don't know why Hawkeye74 keeps libeling me as a "dealer" of Indian muskets even though I have told him in the past that I have never claimed to be a dealer, nor sold them. YES IT IS TIRING.
LD
It does validate the point, however, that although a barrel passed proof at the proof house, due to neglect, it might not be safe now.
.
I don't know why Hawkeye74 keeps libeling me as a "dealer" of Indian muskets even though I have told him in the past that I have never claimed to be a dealer, nor sold them. YES IT IS TIRING.
LD
Last edited:
HasoBoxhead
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- Jun 7, 2013
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Ah, the classic urban legends about how terrible the Indian guns are and how totally reliable the Italian ones are...love it. Take a read of this:
http://www.middlesexvillagetrading....tory_articles/Indian_muskets_and_safety.shtml
Pay particular attention to the link on the "autopsy" of the weapon that failed in the infamous 2007 incident..which was not a mechanical failure or unsafe workmanship issue, but rather human error...also look at the actual mechanical failures noted with the Italian pieces...
Now, with the "safety" issue at least given another voice and some actual empirical data, we can move onto historical accuracy, which the Italian ones are, quite simply, horrible. Read any authoritative study on weapons of the American revolution and you'll see just how "off" the Italian muskets are...and, oddly enough, how much closer to reality the Indian ones actually are.
Stop the hate, stop the urban legends. I've had my own musket tested by our armorer and outsourced to a professional one, with absolutely no issues detected. The bottom line is do the research and stop passing along urban legends. If you've "seen" multiple failures, post the pics and the details of the post-incident investigation, otherwise your putting out legends.
Take the time to take care of your weapon and ensure you are operating it safely. Don't think simply paying twice as much for a musket is going to get you one that is absolutely safe, nor is it going to get you any closer to historical accuracy, but rather farther away. DO THE RESEARCH.
Sorry, soapbox is now free...
http://www.middlesexvillagetrading....tory_articles/Indian_muskets_and_safety.shtml
Pay particular attention to the link on the "autopsy" of the weapon that failed in the infamous 2007 incident..which was not a mechanical failure or unsafe workmanship issue, but rather human error...also look at the actual mechanical failures noted with the Italian pieces...
Now, with the "safety" issue at least given another voice and some actual empirical data, we can move onto historical accuracy, which the Italian ones are, quite simply, horrible. Read any authoritative study on weapons of the American revolution and you'll see just how "off" the Italian muskets are...and, oddly enough, how much closer to reality the Indian ones actually are.
Stop the hate, stop the urban legends. I've had my own musket tested by our armorer and outsourced to a professional one, with absolutely no issues detected. The bottom line is do the research and stop passing along urban legends. If you've "seen" multiple failures, post the pics and the details of the post-incident investigation, otherwise your putting out legends.
Take the time to take care of your weapon and ensure you are operating it safely. Don't think simply paying twice as much for a musket is going to get you one that is absolutely safe, nor is it going to get you any closer to historical accuracy, but rather farther away. DO THE RESEARCH.
Sorry, soapbox is now free...
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