Hi Power

[Panzerschwein]

Looking for a surplus Hi Power 9mm. What's a good one? Not looking to spend a bunch of money. What is a good buy in military surplus Hi-Powers?

Thanks.

 

[Kp321]

Cole's Distributors (CDI) usually has pages of used High Powers on Gunbroker, priced according to condition. I have purchased several from them and have never been disappointed. The pistols are described well and are always as represented in the postings. Most are Brownings (FN) but there are a few FEG's at times which are priced cheaper but are still good solid pistols.

 

[cxm]

You will find a godly number of surplus HPs on Gunbroker... and you will find some good buys...

The military surplus is of course a shooter grade gun... some are refinished (usually parkerized) and most are in mechanically excellent condition... A refinished example will make an excellent SD gun that also looks nice for carry. They also make great a chassis for a project gun.

The best known Gunbroker sellers are CDIsales (formerly Gary Cole) who has an excellent reputation for delivering guns that are better than described... a plus with CDI is they show photos of the actual gun you will get as opposed to some dealers who show a representative gun (usually a lot better than what you get.) Mach1 also has a good reputation.

Other dealers get HPs at times, but my experience is they usually are a disappointment when compared to the photo shown... they usually fit within the grade description, but just... as opposed to the guys who amaze you with better quality than described... I prefer to buy from the latter dealers.

AIM, SOG and others have HPs from time to time (which often means they were imported by Century... and thus have a quite large import mark stampped on the frame of the gun... something that is not necessary and I avoid... still, I have bought a few HPs from them as well too. In general they didn't misrepresent the condition of the guns... but they barely made the grade claimed... I was left feeling very unhappy with the purchase... now they would have taken them back... with shipping both ways at my expense... something I didn't like... so I kept the guns and ultimately refurbished the guns... I guess I would say I might buy something from them if the price is VERY good and i can't find the item somewhere else... otherwise I'd buy elsewhere... As long as you know the deal in advance and it's ok with you there is no reason not to buy from the big guys...

I got a defective HP from CDI (not something that I would have expected a dealer to notice) and he took it back without a problem and paid for return shipping as well... you cant ask much more than that...

FWIW

Chuck

Looking for a surplus Hi Power 9mm. What's a good one? Not looking to spend a bunch of money. What is a good buy in military surplus Hi-Powers?

Thanks.

 

[CNobbe]

Mach1 Arsenal also has surplus HPs a lot of the time. Unfortunately the import markings on these guns kinda kills the value, but they are great shooting guns for a fraction of the price of a new or classic commercial Hi Power.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks so much, all.

I am interested in one since I like military handguns a lot. Just looking for one that's in good shooting condition, I don't need (or want) a super awesome collector's grade gun. I also don't mind import marks. If that means I can get the gun for less, I'm fine with that as like I said I am getting one as a shooter. I plan to get one of those nifty military flap holsters as well. I will defiantly check out CDI on Gunbroker.

Any Hi Power tips, tricks, recommendations etc. are very welcome. Thanks guys I like you a lot.

 

[Kp321]

Take a look at 1911forum.com and go to the Browning Hi-Power forum. Some very knowledgable Hi-Power guys hang out there.

 

[Sunray]

Real military surplus Hi-Powers are few and far between these days. Not many of the countries who used 'em release surplus firearms for sale to milsurp dealers any more. Our lot will chop 'em(Canadian Inglis HPs were made in 1944 and '45 only. Still in use and will not be released.)
However, as mentioned there are hordes of used BHP's on the assorted auction sites.
"...Hi Power tips, tricks, recommendations etc..." Take out the silly mag safety.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Real military surplus Hi-Powers are few and far between these days. Not many of the countries who used 'em release surplus firearms for sale to milsurp dealers any more. Our lot will chop 'em(Canadian Inglis HPs were made in 1944 and '45 only. Still in use and will not be released.)
However, as mentioned there are hordes of used BHP's on the assorted auction sites.
"...Hi Power tips, tricks, recommendations etc..." Take out the silly mag safety.

So are those not milsurps? They are commercial ones? If so, how is the quality?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I think you'll find some milsurp Hi-Powers coming out of the Middle East, primarily from Israel. Some were purchased directly from FN, some were commercial guns resold to israel by commercial sellers, and a few were Israeli-made knockoffs (Kareens?), which seem to be good quality guns, much like the early FEGs.

 

[Mizar]

...and a few were Israeli-made knockoffs (Kareens?)...

Let me disagree with that - Kareen MK I is a Hungarian FEG P9M and Kareen MK II & III's are Bulgarian Arcus 94 with couple of cosmetic differences. To my knowledge Hi-Powers were never produced in Israel.

Best,
Boris

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I stand corrected on the Kareens -- but a number were sold here in the U.S. as military surplus guns. (My memory failed me when I said the Kareens were made in Israel -- but now that you mention it, I remember reading that they were made by FEG.)

A variety of guns were imported through by government purchase and also through commercial channels, with many of the commerically-imported guns going to Israeli military and other government units. AIM Surplus had a number of surplus Israeli Hi-Powers earlier this year, and they sold like hot cakes at very reasonable prices.

Israel also bought a lot of CZ and Tanfoglio guns, and you sometimes find those guns on the Century Arms site -- in the "One of a kind" section. As I undestand it, Israel later bought rights to Tanfoglio's CZ-pattern design and started making their own -- which eventually led to guns like the Baby Eagle being sold here in the U.S.)

 

[jhb]

be careful with surplus. having bought many over many years. i have a rate of about a 30% chance of getting with with defects. some very minor and easily fixed others much more expense to be repaired. typically almost every hi power or feg clone i have bought has suffered from this problem. the disconnector/seer whatever the part is called that keeps the hammer back when the safety is on.....setup is out of spec and allows the trigger to be pulled and move that part up and almost let the hammer fall. most wouldn't notice it unless they watched while pulling the trigger when the safety was on. often right on the edge of being dangerous. wont not fire or affect shooting, but keeping locked and loaded is asking for trouble. seen lots of sloppy armoring done regardless of cosmetic condition. also the most common issue is pitted bores, but worn out springs is also common. you can get lucky too. point is hard to buy without really inspecting it over and come out even. so if they have a check it out before accepting the transfer and easy return policy without percentages held on returns use it before you accept the transfer. point of note most ffls ive used dont want to sit around while you check it out but some will. best to know up front before going through a time wasting for everyone exercise.

my real point being is buying surplus to save money doesnt work out that way always. buying surplus to add to a collection of old and hard to find firearms makes more sense financially. sometimes spending up front more pays dividends. instead of getting a worn out pistol where you have to find a good gunsmith who knows what to do and parts on hi powers is pricey and barrels for hi powers 2s and even 3s are about impossible and when you do are often more costly that the entire surplus gun.

good luck on the hunt.

 

[Panzerschwein]

You will find a godly number of surplus HPs on Gunbroker... and you will find some good buys...

The military surplus is of course a shooter grade gun... some are refinished (usually parkerized) and most are in mechanically excellent condition... A refinished example will make an excellent SD gun that also looks nice for carry. They also make great a chassis for a project gun.

The best known Gunbroker sellers are CDIsales (formerly Gary Cole) who has an excellent reputation for delivering guns that are better than described... a plus with CDI is they show photos of the actual gun you will get as opposed to some dealers who show a representative gun (usually a lot better than what you get.) Mach1 also has a good reputation.

Other dealers get HPs at times, but my experience is they usually are a disappointment when compared to the photo shown... they usually fit within the grade description, but just... as opposed to the guys who amaze you with better quality than described... I prefer to buy from the latter dealers.

AIM, SOG and others have HPs from time to time (which often means they were imported by Century... and thus have a quite large import mark stampped on the frame of the gun... something that is not necessary and I avoid... still, I have bought a few HPs from them as well too. In general they didn't misrepresent the condition of the guns... but they barely made the grade claimed... I was left feeling very unhappy with the purchase... now they would have taken them back... with shipping both ways at my expense... something I didn't like... so I kept the guns and ultimately refurbished the guns... I guess I would say I might buy something from them if the price is VERY good and i can't find the item somewhere else... otherwise I'd buy elsewhere... As long as you know the deal in advance and it's ok with you there is no reason not to buy from the big guys...

I got a defective HP from CDI (not something that I would have expected a dealer to notice) and he took it back without a problem and paid for return shipping as well... you cant ask much more than that...

FWIW

Chuck

Thank you

be careful with surplus. having bought many over many years. i have a rate of about a 30% chance of getting with with defects. some very minor and easily fixed others much more expense to be repaired. typically almost every hi power or feg clone i have bought has suffered from this problem. the disconnector/seer whatever the part is called that keeps the hammer back when the safety is on.....setup is out of spec and allows the trigger to be pulled and move that part up and almost let the hammer fall. most wouldn't notice it unless they watched while pulling the trigger when the safety was on. often right on the edge of being dangerous. wont not fire or affect shooting, but keeping locked and loaded is asking for trouble. seen lots of sloppy armoring done regardless of cosmetic condition. also the most common issue is pitted bores, but worn out springs is also common. you can get lucky too. point is hard to buy without really inspecting it over and come out even. so if they have a check it out before accepting the transfer and easy return policy without percentages held on returns use it before you accept the transfer. point of note most ffls ive used dont want to sit around while you check it out but some will. best to know up front before going through a time wasting for everyone exercise.

my real point being is buying surplus to save money doesnt work out that way always. buying surplus to add to a collection of old and hard to find firearms makes more sense financially. sometimes spending up front more pays dividends. instead of getting a worn out pistol where you have to find a good gunsmith who knows what to do and parts on hi powers is pricey and barrels for hi powers 2s and even 3s are about impossible and when you do are often more costly that the entire surplus gun.

good luck on the hunt.

I see. I didn't know the surplus ones had a high failure rate... very interesting.

 

[jhb]

Thank you


I see. I didn't know the surplus ones had a high failure rate... very interesting.

well high for my own experiences...others may have much better sucess rates? dont know only know my own. then again most of the good surplus was cleaned out long ago. stuff being brought over now was likely considered the junk back in the good old days but its all that is left.

my real point is saving money on surplus vs. new gun. sometimes yes sometimes no. just be careful what ya buy and from who etc.

 

[Panzerschwein]

well high for my own experiences...others may have much better sucess rates? dont know only know my own. then again most of the good surplus was cleaned out long ago. stuff being brought over now was likely considered the junk back in the good old days but its all that is left.

my real point is saving money on surplus vs. new gun. sometimes yes sometimes no. just be careful what ya buy and from who etc.

I see. I am seriously reconsidering now... I didn't know this.

 

[I6turbo]

First, go here and learn just about anything you might want to know about the Hi Power. http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/
That's pretty much the Bible for Hi Power info.

If you want a good used surplus HP for a fair price, contact Mach 1 Arsenal (a big importer of Israeli surplus guns, and the importer for many of the guns that AIM and lots of others resell), talk to Kerry Kreiman (USMC Retired) Phone 865-982-3950 Ext 104 and tell him what you want. He'll tell you with honesty what he has at the moment. Judging from what they're offering on GB right now, they appear to be kind of between batches right now, but they may have some that aren't listed on GB. Several times during the year they get new batches in, and there are almost always a number of excellent guns in there. I suggest you get a Mk III.

The Hi Power in the photos below is one that Kerry picked out for me a couple years ago for $480. It is an excellent shooter, has an outstanding trigger for a HP, looks like it'd been carried but fired very little. He's recently had some that looked about the same for similar money, such as this one: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/589572421 I have no idea what they have on hand at this time, but I've watched their offerings from time to time over the past couple of years and as I said, they periodically get new batches in, and offer some great-looking guns in the $500 range. The HP is an outstanding gun, IMO.

 

[Panzerschwein]

First, go here and learn just about anything you might want to know about the Hi Power. http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/
That's pretty much the Bible for Hi Power info.

If you want a good used surplus HP for a fair price, contact Mach 1 Arsenal (a big importer of Israeli surplus guns, and the importer for many of the guns that AIM and lots of others resell), talk to Kerry Kreiman (USMC Retired) Phone 865-982-3950 Ext 104 and tell him what you want. He'll tell you with honesty what he has at the moment. Judging from what they're offering on GB right now, they appear to be kind of between batches right now, but they may have some that aren't listed on GB. Several times during the year they get new batches in, and there are almost always a number of excellent guns in there. I suggest you get a Mk III.

The Hi Power in the photos below is one that Kerry picked out for me a couple years ago for $480. It is an excellent shooter, has an outstanding trigger for a HP, looks like it'd been carried but fired very little. He's recently had some that looked about the same for similar money, such as this one: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/589572421 I have no idea what they have on hand at this time, but I've watched their offerings from time to time over the past couple of years and as I said, they periodically get new batches in, and offer some great-looking guns in the $500 range. The HP is an outstanding gun, IMO.

Very cool, thanks. That looks great. I will have to educate myself on this gun more. All I know is that I'm looking for a shooter that's got a military or police pedigree and that doesn't cost a ton. That's why I want to avoid a new one, I don't care if it's got some scuffs, so long as it isn't thrashed.

 

[Tallball]

I guess I've been lucky. I have bought ten or so surplus firearms over the years and haven't had trouble with any of them. I'll throw in another good word for CDI Sales: the two pistols I have bought from them have both been excellent.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I see. I am seriously reconsidering now... I didn't know this.

As others have said, many of us have had good success with surplus guns. A key is WHO you buy from. I've gotten mine from reputable dealers, who grade their weapons, and you try to buy the higher grades... But a good quality BHP or FN-HP in the $400 range was certainly possible earlier this year from AIM Surplus. A few years back CDNN (Target Sports) was selling NIB BHPs for under $500 -- a bunch of them. They didn't last long.

Whatever you do, don't let your desire for a BHP cause you to rush into buying one -- hunt for a while, and look for stated conditions. Keep your eyes open and look around for a while before you buy. Price alone is not a key consideration.

 

[BSA1]

Cooldill,

Given your interest in military issue guns I would not be discouraged by the negative comments being posted. Cylinder and Slide, Inc. is just across the State line and is considered to be the experts on Hi-Powers. I would give them a call and discuss your desire with them.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks so much, all.

I will contact both CDI and Mach 1 to see what they have available. I know I probably missed the Hi-Power boat though! Ah... the joy of surplus guns, some times you get them when the getting's good, other times not so much! Just looking for a basic shooter grade that isn't worn out and is still reliable. Nothing special.

 

[Panzerschwein]

What about this little guy?

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/608644049

As an example, how is the price? This is about the grade I'm going for. Are non matching serial #s a bad thing for Hi Powers, or does it not matter?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

That dealer has a good rating, and the price seems reasonable. You have a three-day trial period, too. (If you don't like it, however, the cost of shipping it back is on you -- and unless you have a friendly FFL, that'll be a bit costly.)

Unmatched numbers is not a big deal if the gun functions well. The barrel probably doesn't match the frame. (Heck, if you damage a Glock barrel and get a replacement barrel from Glock, it'll come without a serial number...) I'd give it serious consideration.

You might be find one that's a little prettier for just a bit more. Depends on what you wnt.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks, I like this one. I don't mind a gun that's been on duty before so long as it works.

 

[cxm]

I see. I am seriously reconsidering now... I didn't know this.

I would not let the worry of a defective HP put you off... I have bought a LOT of HPs from Gunbroker and a couple of the regular sellers there... Keep in mind, that in buying from the established dealers you can return a defective gun without any hassle at all... and most problems are minor to start with... and most are easily repaired yourself by swapping out a part.

Over the years I have probably bought a dozen surplus HPs perhaps a few more than that... and I have had exactly one that was defective and it was replaced without the slightest argument and the seller paid the return shipping as well!!! It is pretty hard to complain about that sort of service.

I've bought from CDIsales, Mach1 and been delighted with the fast service and good price and support... I have also bought from SOG and AIM and probably a couple of others as well... they delivered what was promised.

Here is an example of a HP I bought from CDISales a couple of years ago... Please note it was not a run of the mill gun and it was priced accordingly...

This HP is pretty representative of the lower end of the crop... it was refinished with a parkerizing material and looked quite good... I gave it a good grease job and removed the magazine interlock and it became a very good carry gun indeed... I did replace the plastic stocks later on.

This HP is a good example of one of the refinished guns... I added new stocks to go with the new parkerized finish on the gun and did the usual grease job and magazine removal... As an aside this gun is one of the Fake HPs that were on the market for a couple of years... I bought it knowing it was a fake and it was so labeled by CDISales. I thouight it would be a good addition to the collection.

Buying from auctions has worked very well for me and saved me lots of bucks... Just buy from known reputable sellers and study the photos carefully and you should do fine... ALso if you are not sure of something ask the seller... sellers are almost always happy to be of help.

FWIW

Chuck