Hi Standard Duramatic M-101 still can't get it running

[1KPerDay]

I went round and round a few years back with this pistol and got so frustrated I gave up. :banghead:

Tried it out again today, hoping that the elves had come in and fixed it. No dice. OEM mag feeds okay with CCI SV but I still get about 20% light strikes. And the mag catch surfaces are rounded over so I pretty much have to curl my pinky below the grip to hold the mag in. I tried a new striker (worse, protrudes less from the slide than original) and 2 new striker springs, one from Brownells and one from Texas HS, both of which are too small ID to slide over the strikers without too much friction, which I don't comprehend. I muscled the new springs on the strikers to test but of course the extra friction makes everything worse.

Primers are baaaaarely getting struck, right along the edge of the rim. I try the "duds" in my Ruger 22/45 and they all go bang.

Still can't get the Texas HS mag running. I have tried to "tune" all mags according to recommendations by the more knowledgeable HS folks but I obviously don't have the knack. The Texas HS mag lips are so thick that you can't really adjust them. They assured me it was "tuned and in spec" and for $45 I would have expected such, but no. For a couple mags it seemed that if I loaded 5 or 6 it was okay, but any more and it would jam. Nose of the bullet high into the chamber top or even higher. Tried again and every round jams.

KKK mag still mostly worthless, shaves and jams 70% of the time.

Cadmium HS mag, can't get more than one round in it without using something to push the rear of the cartridge down, which of course means the spring has not the power to push it back up. Something amiss. Fed one round a few times okay, but several times nose up jams. CCI SV and Federal Automatch.

I would gladly pay any "expert" $20 to tune my Texas HS mag and Cadmium mag for me if anyone feels comfortable doing that. I want to like this pistol but it's not worth all the trouble. If it weren't my dad's I'd send it down the road (with full disclosure).


2 "duds" and one of the fired CCI cases. I got "duds" with both CCI and Federal; this is just an example.

 

[Old Fuff]

First of all, go to Brownells' (www.brownells.com) and order some DUMMY .22 LR cartridges. Using live rounds to diagnose a feeding problem is asking for a negligent discharge.

Next, remove the extractor (If you don't know how, I'll come back). Now load the various magazines you have with the "dummies" and see if they will hand feed.

Also inspect the back of the chamber to be sure dry-firing hasn't left it dinged.

Hi-Standard made some very fine pistols, but they are magazine lip sensitive. If it won't hand-feed with extractor removed it's likely the magazine lips or spring are the reason,

In you're picture it appears the cartridge rim is coming up to, but not sliding under the extractor hook. If (or when) this happens it cannot come to a horizontal position and enter the chamber.

 

[1KPerDay]

I have dummy cartridges. Chamber is fine. I will try removing extractor.

99% sure it's magazine issues, since the OEM mag works perfectly other than falling out every 5th shot.

In the pic the nose is jammed into the upper edge of the chamber. Cuts into the nose.

thanks for the help

 

[Old Fuff]

In these Hi-Standard's you don't have a feed ramp, so as the cartridge is being pushed forward the back must be released in time to come up under the extractor before the bullet's nose gets jammed. This is usually cured by using a special pry-bar to slightly open the magazine lips at the front. Brownells may or may not offer them. You can also file the front of the lips backwards a tiny bit to get an earlier release.

Use a dental pick the push the extractor spring plunger back into the slide, and then you can tip the extractor hook inward and then lift it out. Be careful to not lose the spring and plunger. Reassemble in reverse order.

 

[Gordon]

Old Fuff ! I thank you from the bottom of my heart on advice about the High Standard .22s. My HD and Flite King and my 101 frustrate me no end and I have the old oroginal mags.

 

[Old Fuff]

Back in the middle of the last century...

I started shooting NRA Bullseye Pistol competition. I had a standard Target model Colt Woodsman with a round barrel, under which I attached a 5" Dia. piece of round bar stock with electrical tape to give it additional weight and forward balance. With this contraption I made Sharpshooter.

Three years later at Camp Perry, Ohio I attended an Army Small Arms Training School (Pistol) run by the Army's Match Training Unit (AMTU). High Standard was present and offered to sell students any of their line of match grade .22 target pistols for manufacturer's cost. I jumped! And thereafter shot Hi-Standard pistols in .22 tournaments for many years.

So I learned a little bit about them.

Unfortunately we have just lost a member, user name rcmodel, who during part of the same time period was a US Army Pistol Armorer, and knew very much more about the workings of Hi Standards' then I ever will.

 

[Jim K]

+ on everything Fuff says, with one additional piece of info. The Duramatic is not really a High Standard in the sense that most of the other guns mentioned are. It was designed by a former H-S employee named Sunderland, who shopped it around. H-S took it up as a means of competing with Ruger, but the Ruger (I am trying to be honest here as always) is simply a better gun. H-S rushed it into production and it never was a very good pistol; we sold a fair number of them and, since the store owner hated to send guns back, I got stuck with the job of trying to get the darned things to work.

In recent years, the same design has been made as the Beretta NEOS, and most reports are good, so maybe Beretta has finally managed to correct the problems.

There are a couple of basic problems. Since the grip (and magazine guide) is attached to the receiver with a screw, the grip can get out of alignment with resulting feeding problems. Also, the firing pin spring and recoil spring are a duo and one can affect the other in regard to failure of slide closure and resulting misfires.

Two things to check are to make sure the spring tunnel in the slide is clean and that that grip is firmly tightened onto the receiver. Also that both springs are clean and free of any interference with one another.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

The Colt .22; originally Cadet, looked like its momma was scared by a Duramatic, too.

 

[1KPerDay]

When you say open the mag lips at the front I assume you mean the rear set of lips? They are kind of in two separate sets. I have done what the guys at rimfire central recommended for tuning and adjusting feed lips but some are so tough my improvised tool won't budge them.

 

[Old Fuff]

Quick answer 'cuz I got'ta run.

What you call the "rear lips" are the one's I am referring to. The one's in front are not lips, but cartridge guides that keep the cartridge pointed directly toward the chamber, and not to the right or left.

 

[243winxb]

High Standard

The cartridge head must slide up the bolt face freely, as said. If the firing pin has a built in stop, it may be possible to give the pin more forward travel. If you can get more travel?? i would work the pin tip to be wider, more broad. I worked on a Victory that misfired many years ago. The pin channel had a burr. It fired fine if help up side down. Sent back to the old High Standard Co. , but it was returned with the same problem. I think the guy sold it. Watch out for a 4.5" barreled Victor.

 

[1KPerDay]

I have scoured and cleaned and scraped and measured firing pin protrusion. I will try removing the extractor and feeding dummy rounds.

 

[Nathan Detroit]

Check out Jim Barts's HS page: http://www.histandard.info/Jim_Barta/. Barta shot in the Cuyahoga County Pistol League for years before his passing. He was the goto guy for the High Standard shooter in the league.

 

[1KPerDay]

Good refresher, thanks. I'll look at the bullet nose angle again.

 

[Old Fuff]

I will try removing the extractor and feeding dummy rounds.

Back again.

In a Hi-Standard it's imperative that the cartridge rim can feed up under the extractor and become level and concentric with the chamber. If that doesn't happen the bullet's nose will become jammed against the top of the chamber - as is shown in you're photograph. it is also critical that the lips release the cartridge as the nose of the bullet goes into the chamber, or just before this point.

The reason to remove the extractor is to see if the cartridges then feed as they should (indicating that the cartridge rim may have been getting stuck behind the extractor) or if the cartridge continues to jam at the bullet nose (which likely means the magazine lips are not releasing the round soon enough).

 

[1KPerDay]

Gotcha, thanks. I'm betting on magazine lips.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Jim Watson,

Yep, the Colt is another version of the Duramatic. H-S took it up first, then when they scaled back (before the original company folded) Colt bought the rights, to it. They made it first as the Colt Cadet, then found out that the old Iver Johnson trademark for that name was still in effect, so they just called it the "Colt 22". They had about the same amount of luck as H-S had and dropped the Colt 22 along with their revolvers and most of their auto-loaders.

The NEOS is changed superficially, but is still the same pistol. I have fired a few but otherwise have had very little personal experience with the NEOS.

When I tried to fix those guns, I found that often the only solution was to replace both the recoil and firing pin springs. Then the gun MIGHT work until one or the other weakened again. It was a PITA.

Jim

 

[LopezEL]

I picked up a High Standard Supermatic that would not feed if the magazine had more than 4 rounds in it. I had every failure you can imagine. I'm pretty sure that's why the seller unloaded the pistol but after asking around on a rimfire forum and getting a response from Mr. Barta himself... I got the pistol to function perfectly.

You can see my post and responses here: http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=364107

 

[1KPerDay]

I have tried tuning the mags but I guess I need to make a better tool out of steel.

 

[konertjm]

Here ya go:
Mag adjustment tool for H.S.

 

[Old Fuff]

Good idea, but the page says, out of stock.

 

[243winxb]

High Standard Magazine measurements

The link above, made me try to measure mine.

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[/URL][/IMG] From an old 1970's gun.

 

[1KPerDay]

Thanks! I'll measure mine.