High-end rifle barrels

[whatnickname]

The old adage: You get what you pay for. Is particularly true when it comes to guns. Now that doesn’t mean that you can’t buy a Savage off the shelf that will shoot into one hole. I have a couple that are capable of consistently shooting five shot groups into 3/8” at 100 yards right out of the box. But that does not mean that every Savage you buy off the shelf will do that either! Case in point: I think everyone would agree that Ruger makes a quality firearm. I know I certainly do. Wanted a M77 stainless steel in 25-06 a few years back. Found one in a LGS in like new condition for a very reasonable price. Wouldn’t hold a group in my hat. Brand new brass split on the second firing. Got some Carrosafe and did a casting of the chamber. The chamber was not completely round...slightly elliptical. So I called Ruger. That was an interesting and short conversation which I will summarize: You’re stupid. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Reloaded ammo voids your warranty and if your rifle will shoot a 2&1/2” group at 100 yards you got a good one.

Today that rifle has a Lilja barrel, a Timney trigger and a Hogue overmoulded stock with an aluminum bedding channel front to back. In my stupid, uninformed and ignorant way I’m barely able to get that rifle to shoot a 3/8” five shot group at 100 yards. The bottom line is that you don’t have these kind of quality variances with Lilja barrels. Lilja only makes one grade of barrels. Match grade and hand lapped. Break-in period is minimal. Gonna sign off now. Need to get someone to tie my shoes.

 

[curtste]

When he started to get pretty sick, my Dad passed down his 1976 Ruger Tang Safety .30-06. I wanted to hunt with it very badly. But, I just couldn't shoot the darn thing. So, I let a couple buddies try. They couldn't shoot it either. I had a gunsmith do almost the same thing you did; Lilja/Timney/Floated/Bedded. I didn't change the stock. I swapped out the old 4X fixed weaver scope for modern glass. Now, it's my favorite rifle. My Son killed his first deer with it last year.

 

[whatnickname]

When he started to get pretty sick, my Dad passed down his 1976 Ruger Tang Safety .30-06. I wanted to hunt with it very badly. But, I just couldn't shoot the darn thing. So, I let a couple buddies try. They couldn't shoot it either. I had a gunsmith do almost the same thing you did; Lilja/Timney/Floated/Bedded. I didn't change the stock. I swapped out the old 4X fixed weaver scope for modern glass. Now, it's my favorite rifle. My Son killed his first deer with it last year.

You’re gonna occasionally get one from Ruger, or anyone else for that matter, that just doesn’t measure up. That just happens with mass produced guns. I have some out of the box Rugers that are outstandingly accurate, like a M77 MKII RSI IN 243 that will print cloverleaf groups all day long. That Mannlicher stock looks fantastic but has never had a reputation for that kind of accuracy. All I’ve ever done to this rifle is fit a Timney trigger to it. I’m sure that the manufacturers get their share of idiots on the phone. Kind of rubs me the wrong way when everyone gets painted with the same brush.

 

[Varminterror]

A caution here: citing mil-spec standards for barrel life when the OP asks about rate of fire for “bench style” semiauto AR’s isn’t particularly appropriate. Mil-spec expectations for accuracy are exceptionally poor. If I recall correctly, mil-spec acceptable tolerance is 5moa, with refusal at 7.5moa. Not exactly impressive precision by any standard.

The 3000-5000 @taliv mentioned above, for example, is parallel to my own experience with Service Rifle barrels and that of many others, at which point they were no longer holding 1moa. And these were relatively barrel friendly 223 and 308win barrels (often pushed rather hard in the 600yrd load, at least).

Alternatively, you might see a barrel in a high over-bore ratio cartridge, used in long range competition which is replaced at 1,500 rounds, or less! The precision here might be still 3/4moa, but if the throat erosion is rapidly decaying too fast to remain stable during a 150-300 roundcount match cycle (prep + match), the barrel has to go. I didn’t even get to 1,500 rounds on my 6 creed precision rifle competition barrel last season - I took it off at 1471 rounds, at least 300 rounds too late, probably 500 too late, to be honest. It was still shooting sub-MOA 10-15 round groups. I had a 243AI bench gun which tanked at 900 rounds, smoked a few 6.5-284 barrels by 1,000rnds. My first 7RM I kicked by 700 - just plinking and playing, before I even knew burning out that fast was even possible.

On the other side of that coin, I have around 25,000 rounds on a chrome lined Bushy Hbar barrel which still prints about 3” at 100yrds. No idea what the speed looks like, but I’m not shooting 800yrds with this one. It’s the second barrel on this upper, not sure on the round count of the last barrel, other than knowing it was over 50,000, and knowing the throat was burned for a LONG ways, and bullets were tumbling at 200. She eats any ammo I feed it, even misfired rounds from other rifles. I’m pretty sure if I dumped powder in the muzzle and stuffed a bullet behind it, she’d find a way to make it go bang. Ain’t the smallest shooter I have, but it works for what I ask it.

Spending a thousand dollars or more (sometimes a LOT more) on ammo to burn out a $300-400 barrel is a great way to enjoy your firearms. Figure 10¢/round towards barrel life right beside the 25-75¢/round direct ammo cost, and life becomes pretty simple.

 

[WVRJ]

Custom barrels from reputable builders are just about always much more accurate than production barrels.Sometimes a production gun will have everything fall into place and it will shoot great.A few years back,I bought a M700 VTR in 308.Now,these funky looking triangular barrels don't have much of an accuracy reputation,but I ran across this one at Cabela's.They had Remington make the barrels on the VTR's they sold a full 24 inches without the stupid muzzle brake.I bought it because I thought maybe the Cabela's version might have a little collector value some day,and I had a $125 voucher I needed to use.A little load development and a little bedding work had it shooting in the .5's right along.I ran across another VTR in 223 that was very lightly used and had a lot of extra goodies with it.Timney trigger,B&C Medalist stock,etc,for a good price.No load,no tuning,no anything I tried would get this rifle to shoot better than a 2 inch group.I installed a stainless Shilen match grade barrel,and right away,it went into the .5-.75 range.Some load workups later,it's one of my more accurate rifles.It's best groups are in the .25 range,and if it shoots over a .5 group,it's me.The quality of the barrel is very important,but also important is the work of installing the barrel.A monkey can mess up the best of barrels.

 

[Cemetery21]

A few people mentioned load workup, as in little or none. The last 2 barrels I bought were 20 cal and reamed with a new 20 Practical chamber reamer. I didn't load for group, I just wanted loads going about 3950 fps, to stay a little below the 4100 fps potential. I only shot 32 gr. V-Max, LC brass for one and WCC for the other. Everything grouped under 3/4". These are groups from the bolt gun Lilja barrel, which is just a hair better than the 24" AR Blackhole bull barrel. 5 shot groups @100 yards, 3/4" squares holding on the bottom left corner.