High Pattern

[ConfederateHoosier]

Ok guys, I just recently acquired a new to me mossberg 500 with an 18" barrel and bead sight, ive taken it to the range with me a couple times so far to shoot it. The problem is that at 10 yards, the gun shoots roughly 7-8 inches high, the first time I shot it and didnt even hit paper I was shocked. So today I took 2 targets on regular printer paper and stapled them one on top and the other directly below it. Now when I aim at the bullseye in the center of the bottom target my pattern is about an inch high on the top, but all the pellets hit. So my question is what can I do to lower it short of getting a higher bead, ive already applied a slip on recoil pad that added an inch to the stock and this helped bring the gun to eye level, but didnt help with the high pattern. And also I am shooting 00 buck( 9 pellet Remington and Winchester 2 3/4.) I tried slugs but they didnt even hit the target. Anything I can do?

 

[jhallrv4]

Get a rifle type sight for the front of the barrel. This will raise the front sight, and you can start over from scratch with an adjustable rear sight, and get exactly what you want for sight picture and POI.

Jeff

 

[ReloaderFred]

When I was rangemaster for our department, I had to teach the Deputies to aim low with 00 Buck and slugs, since they tend to rise from a short barrel shotgun. At 25 yards you aim at the belt buckle to hit them in the chest. It's the nature of the beast.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[oneounceload]

First thing would be to try different ammo to see if you get the same result. Second would be to check the stock dimensions - if you are seeing rib, you'll shoot high. Third would be to have someone else shoot your loads and also from a bench to see if it is the way you are shooting or the gun/ammo combination

 

[Steve C]

Head down on the stock. Picking your head up throws shots high. Snug it against you tight to help reduce muzzle rise. Practice with some inexpensive bird shot and once you get used to it then try the buck again.

 

[lobo9er]

At 25 yards you aim at the belt buckle to hit them in the chest. It's the nature of the beast.

does this sound right to others here?
i would say try another shotgun see if you get same results. figure out if its you or the 500.

 

[ConfederateHoosier]

Well, ive never heard the "aim for belt buckle technique", but given the way things are going I may have too. I am an avid clay shooter and have 3 other shotguns besides this one (super x1, savage 444b, mossberg 835) and none of them pattern like this, not even close to this bad. But then again none of those have an 18" barrel with no vent rib or choke. When ive shot buck out of my 835 it usually patterns right where I put the bead. When I bring this gun up to shoot im getting a firm cheek weld and getting as low as I can on the bead, but its just not helping. I dont really want to use the "belt buckle" strategy simply because in a home defense situation or what not, it goes against eveyrthing we as shooters have learned our whole lives like "put the sight where you want the shot to go", not "aim 8 inches low to nail him in the chest." And if that tactic is true at 25 yards it still doesnt explain why at 10 yards im still high. I shot a few times at 25 today and got nothing but air, needless to say it's frustrating.

 

[ReloaderFred]

All I can tell you is I was responsible for qualifying 600 sworn Deputies, plus approximately 300 reserve Deputies. They all shot high with 00 Buck from the 18" shotguns (Model 870's) that we carried in our patrol cars. The rangemaster for the PD, who had about 300 sworn officers to qualify, had the same experience with their 18" Model 870's. That's about 300 total shotguns between the two departments, and over 1,200 officers shooting them.

When shooting 00 Buck, it hits high out of the short barrel. Most of our shooting was done at 25+ yards with the shotguns. When shooting #6 shot for practice, the pattern was more to the point of aim, but still high. Of course, our duty shotguns didn't have ribs and only had front beads.

That's the experience my post is based on, so you can take it or leave it. Most of our 00 buck rounds were also 2 3/4" Magnum loads, with 12 pellets, both Winchester and Remington, depending on who got the bid. None of the "low recoil" stuff they use nowadays. Our intent was to put the hurt on anyone we needed to use the shotgun on, not play patty cake.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[huntsman]

I am an avid clay shooter and have 3 other shotguns besides this one (super x1, savage 444b, mossberg 835) and none of them pattern like this, not even close to this bad. But then again none of those have an 18" barrel with no vent rib or choke. When ive shot buck out of my 835 it usually patterns right where I put the bead. When I bring this gun up to shoot im getting a firm cheek weld and getting as low as I can on the bead, but its just not helping.

you bought a cheap gun that doesn't hit POA big suprise, try another barrel.The length shouldn't have any effect on the POI.

 

[throdgrain]

Mossberg sell shims that fit between the stock and reciever, that can change the poi for you. I had this with my 500, I got used to shooting low, but a shim can lower the shot pattern significantly.

I'd try this if I were you

 

[ConfederateHoosier]

Wow ReloaderFred I didnt know short barreled shotguns commonly shoot high enough to make it a standard part of training, but it makes since since if you were signing out a shotgun for duty every time then chances are it might not be the same one as before. Which coincides with throdgrain's statement and in general because if you fit the shotgun to yourself, then according to this and everything I have researched it can hit generally where you put the bead. This would be a problem for departments because (and im only assuming) of cost and the fact that every time an officer goes out chances are its not the same shotty he had last time. But anyway thats a neat little factoid I didnt know before.

As far as shimming the stock, I dont have the mossberg factory shims as the gun was used. I've researched it and basically anything from business cards and toothpicks to old shotgun hulls have been used. Anyone have any other ideas? Looks like im gunna have to go harbor freight to get that long screwdriver I never thought I would need haha.

 

[ReloaderFred]

ConfederateHoosier,

Since we had Deputies of all sizes and shapes, there wasn't any way to tailor the shotguns to them. It was much easier to train them to shoot low, and when they actually saw where the 00 buck was hitting on the B-27 targets at 25 yards, they didn't take any further convincing. It actually worked out pretty well, since most people want to look at their target instead of the sights anyway. This usually means they shoot low with a handgun, since they subconsciously move the sights out of the way so they can see the target better. With the shotgun, this pretty much put them on target with the 00 buck loads they carried in the 870's.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Virginian]

I would get my gun fixed to shoot where I point it, and I wouldn't go to a rifle sight either. Get the barrel bent. In the case of an experienced shooter like yourself I would say this is even more important. Practice shooting everything at the target, and then in a life threatening remember to shoot somewhere else? Not me.

 

[Capstick1]

This is one thing I like about the rear peep sights they have on some of these HD shotguns. The rear sight is usually mounted on the reciever and if it's shooting low it's not that hard to raise the elevation on it.

 

[throdgrain]

As far as shimming the stock, I dont have the mossberg factory shims as the gun was used. I've researched it and basically anything from business cards and toothpicks to old shotgun hulls have been used. Anyone have any other ideas? Looks like im gunna have to go harbor freight to get that long screwdriver I never thought I would need haha.

Mate just buy then from Mossberg, they cost next to nothing, work a treat and look neat and professional.

Then, as Virginian says, your gun will be set up correctly for you, and you can begin to get real confidence in what you're doing.

 

[ConfederateHoosier]

ReloaderFred, thats understandable given that its impractical to outfit every cop personally to a shotgun, so it makes sense. And Virgiana you made mention of getting the barrel bent, how would I go about doing this, as ive heard of the procedure but know nothing about it or what it takes to do it. And I did look at rifle sights, and it seems that they make a few that fit right onto the rear of the reciever thats already drilled for a scope, however the front would be a problem as I would have to dovetail it, thats the only possibility I found there.

As far as shimming the stock goes, im going to homemade shim it and see if it helps and after that buy the mossy shims once I know what I need. Question though, ive heard of all these diff materials being used as shims, and they are all fairly thin (cut pop bottle, business card etc.) I read a thread last night that suggested tin foil so I folded a few layers and tried it, but the gap it created is very small, is this right? Or do I need something thicker? Because the thread mentioned a 1/16th change is roughly an inch at 25 yards, and this is nowhere near that.

 

[throdgrain]

Yeah the gap is really small, its acentuated by the distance you're aiming at.

It dont show it very well, but the average width is 1/8", they have a range as you can see.

 

[Dave McCracken]

We noted the OP's problem a while back with agency 870s equipped with just a bead, no base or rib. Like Fred, we advised our officers to hold low.

Kentucky elevations worked. I recall taking at least two deer with a single bead right on the muzzle by holding on the belly line on broadside shots within says, 40 yards.

Once again, it's imperative to know just what your shotgun and load do with YOU at the controls.....