HK45...... To LEM or not to LEM. That is the question.

[Zaydok Allen]

Hello friends and neighbors,

Sorry for this thread about the HK's LEM trigger system, as I know there is already a similar thread out there, but I didn't want to hijack it. So I started this one.

I've lost faith in my polymer .45 and have decided to go with a HK45 to replace it. I haven't been able to handle one with the LEM trigger though. I may be ordering one today and I'm a little unsure of which trigger to order.

I'm used to the controls for a traditional DA/SA semiauto with a thumb safety and decocker, as I have owned an FNP45. So my concern is that even though the pull is much lighter on the LEM, that the long take up will screw up my shots and serve no purpose. Am I missing something here? I get that you get a consistent and lighter trigger pull on each shot with the LEM, but is there any other advantage? Given that the HK45 with a traditional trigger system and lever can be carried cocked and locked, and will have a shorter take up in SA mode, I just don't see that much benefit in the LEM.

The intended use is bedside and HD duty, and occasional open carry on the trail.

 

[JTQ]

I recently read an older review Hilton Yam did of an HK45, G21, and M&P 45.

Mr. Yam is primarily a 1911 shooter with self described small hands. He shoots thumbs forward and rides the thumb safety with his 1911's, thumb safety equipped M&P's, and also while shooting the the HK45 V1 (safety/decocker). He found he was not only occasionally decocking the gun during strings of fire, but was causing the trigger to lock up at times due to inadvertently pushing the safety/decocker down to decock. He wished for a V9 HK45, which I think would be a safety only version with no decocker, but I don't believe HK offers that. I can't remember if he said he would have preferred an LEM version over what he had.

I believe your FN45 uses the same type of safety/decocker HK uses, so if you haven't had issues with that set up, I suspect you'll be OK.

 

[skywalkrNCSU]

Why don't you just get a V1 with the thumb safety and decocker if that is what you are used to? The benefit of the LEM seems to be with the V7 that is DAO as it essentially gives you something closer to a SA pull while the safety features of a DAO remain.

 

[sigarms228]

I have a HK45 DA/SA and can shoot it fantastic. All my SIGs are DA/SA also, so that is what am staying with. Never had a problem with the thumb safety on it nor on my HK P30LS.

I would definitely recommend that you try to shoot a LEM trigger before buying one or at minimum dry fire with it but keeping in mind that you need to work the slide back the first time to get the correct feel of the LEM trigger.

Also the HK45 SA/DA can be converted to LEM if you decide at a later time that you want to go that way.

Congrats on the HK45!!

 

[JTQ]

All my SIGs are DA/SA also, so that is what am staying with. Never had a problem with the thumb safety on it nor on my HK P30LS.

As a SIG guy, do you ride the HK thumb safety or do you put your thumb below the thumb safety?

 

[Jenrick]

The LEM trigger is fairly similar to the Para LDA if you're familiar with it in feel. Basically the pistol is fully cocked in SA mode, with an external hammer that sits forward until you pull the trigger. The trigger while it does have a longer takeup, it is EXTREMELY light. Think two stage rifle trigger light. Basically the trigger is rotating the external hammer back against the minimal spring pressure used to drive the external hammer.

Once you get to the point where the external and internal hammer lockup, you now are basically shooting the gun in SA mode, with the same travel and weight. Also the LEM has a very short reset, which makes the gun very fast to run. IMO if you can get away with carrying C&L and your hands make it work for you then LEM isn't a huge step forward. If agency policy (if you're an LEO) prohibits C&L carry, or your hands cause you to bump the decocking/safety lever, then I HIGHLY recommend the LEM for your trigger.

-Jenrick

 

[sigarms228]

As a SIG guy, do you ride the HK thumb safety or do you put your thumb below the thumb safety?

My thumb is more to the side just below the safety when shooting it. I was somewhat concerned being used to my SIGs with no safety but it has been no problem with either my HK45 or P30LS.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Thanks for the quick replies folks. I thought it over and it just seems to make more sense to stick with the manual of arms that I'm familiar with. Placed the order. And, I can always change out for the LEM trigger later if I want.

I was offered $450 trade in value on another gun, and have $475 in Cabela's points. So after taxes, I should only owe $150 to go home with it.

Should be here in a week or two. Looking forward to joining the HK club.

 

[sigarms228]

Nice. You will LOVE your HK45 - well worth the investment.

My first 15 rounds through mine.

 

[wally]

I prefer the the cocked and locked SA option of the "variant 1", but if you like the Glock/M&P partially cocked striker operation, the LEM is very nice and adds a long hard double strike option for bad ammo.

You can change it for ~$150 in parts

 

[chuckpro]

460Kodiak
You did the right thing. I you like the controls of the sa/da i would go with that. It gives you options of Locked/Cocked or Sa/Da. After getting a P2000 i converted my HK 45c to LEM. But it is a hate it or love it trigger. It is long and breaks hard at the end of the stroke. You can get the parts from HKparts.com and convert it over without to muck work if you chose.

 

[JDR]

I ride the thumb safety when I shoot my 1911s, my CZ 75B, and my BHP. So I also ride the safety on my HK USP 40 v1, I've never had a problem with decocking the gun while I'm shooting, I keep the thumb pressure straight down towards the back of the safety lever so it doesn't pivot downward. You won't have a problem with the HK, these are fantastic firearms!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I'm getting antzy now waiting for it to show up. Ordered a Safariland holster for it today for open carry on the trail.

Any other tips or things I should know from you HK owners? Every gun model seems to have its own quirks. Just wondering if any of you guys have noticed anything noteworthy on the HK45.

 

[RussB]

I bought a used HK45 last year. It had the LEM installed, but came with all the DA/SA parts. After a short while, I swapped the DA/SA parts back in and never looked back.

For ME, the LEM left my strong hand thumb out there with no place to go, so it would end up holding the slide release lever down and not locking back after the last round.

LEM would be nice for a carry gun IMO, giving you a consistent trigger and no safety lever to fumble around with...maybe?

pics,




I've since added a 10-8 black U notch rear sight to go along with the factory tritium front,

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Hey how is the finish on these guns? I've always bought stainless guns and this will be my first all black pistol. All the pics I've seen, and all the guns I've handled looked liked the finish on the HK45 is very durable.

 

[RussB]

Finish on the slide is tough...the controls, not so much. You can see "the shiny" on the control levers on my gun

 

[Jenrick]

Carried a USP 45 on duty for several years, still looked almost new.

-Jenrick

 

[sakata8242]

I actually like the LEM, especially the light version. The modification is similar to SIG's DAK which I also like, but unlike the latter, the former has a lighter initial stroke and a much, much shorter reset on each shot subsequent to the first one. Basically it's a SA trigger after the first shot. To me the benefits are the complete lack of silly safeties (which I think are totally unnecessary on any DAO or DA/SA pistol) that might be neglected to be actuated before and after shooting.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Well, I got to bring her home last Thursday. My first impression is that the HK45 is a nice pistol. The fit and finish does seem to be a step above many other poly guns I've looked at and owned. JMO. The finish seems like it's durable, but only time will tell.

The DA pull is heavy, as expected, but smooth and breaks crisply. The single action is light and should do well. There is a bit of take up on both modes but is certainly good enough for a fighting pistol.

The three dot sights are just fine, and do glow very brightly if exposed to a bright light first. Of course night sights would be better, but since they are illegal in Germany, the design remains.

I haven't been able to shoot it yet, only clean the factory goo off and gun and oil it. Mine was made in America. If it shots straight, and holds up, this gun will be going on the trail, and sitting on the bed side table.

 

[Rio Laxas]

I would suggest trying out the LEM and seeing what you think. I converted my USPc to light LEM with thumb safety, but later converted it back to V9 (thumb safety, no decocker) for carrying cocked and locked. I liked the LEM ok, but prefer the SA trigger.

 

[Bentonville]

Congrats on buying a great gun. I have had many HK pistols and I honestly have never had one single failure of any kind after thousands of rounds downrange. I had the DA/SA trigger on my HK45C but I switched it out to the light LEM and I love it. I sometimes wish for the C&L feature to get the short and lighter SA back but still, I love my LEM trigger. Let us know how it shoots. My 45c is the softest shooting .45 I have every shot. YMMV, naturally.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I would suggest trying out the LEM and seeing what you think.

I may do that. Actually I'm more inclined to rent an HK at a range with the LEM trigger, rather than buy the parts and change it out, just possibly find out I don't care for it. I'm used to DA/SA, so I want to play with it as is for awhile.

Need to find one for rent though.

 

[sigarms228]

I may do that. Actually I'm more inclined to rent an HK at a range with the LEM trigger, rather than buy the parts and change it out, just possibly find out I don't care for it. I'm used to DA/SA, so I want to play with it as is for awhile.

Need to find one for rent though.

I find the DA/SA on my HK45 to be just fine and I am used to my SIGs.

The DA is a little stiff but I have not fired it much yet. After a couple hundred rounds through my HK P30LS I find that the DA is nice now and SA is great.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I've played with a P30 with the light LEM in the store but never fired one. That's the $64,000 question for me, too. Part of me really wants to ship one of my USPs back to HK to have the Match/Hybrid LEM installed but I've been really happy with the regular Match carried cocked-and-locked. Eventually I'll bite the bullet and get something with the LEM trigger to try out.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I changed my first USP 45 to variant 9 so I could ride the safety, but switched it back. Trained not to ride the safety.
I like a manual safety, so was never interested in LEM. You won't be disappointed with the HK45. Mine fed every bullet style perfectly, even SWCs, and I never had an inaccurate batch of handloads. The only hiccup came when I tried some very light loads and the slide failed to lock back on those.
The bullets are the excellent Hornady 200 grain FMJ-CT (SWC).