Home defense gun for my teenage daughter...

[shootniron]

I need opinions on teaching my 17yr old daughter to use a carbine for home defense when she is at home alone. She shoots handguns and rifles somewhat regularly with her brother and me at the range and she also shoots 4-H modified trap with the local team.

My thoughts on starting her with the carbine is that it is much lighter and shorter to handle inside the house. Also, it has a lot less recoil and would offer 10rds using the short mag. I would let her choose between the AR and the Mini…whichever she preferred, even though I would lean toward the Mini for a more simple manual of arms. Our home is brick and on 7acres, so immediate neighbors are not a great concern.

Am I offbase here...what do you think?

Please feel free to let me know what you think as that is the reason I am asking.

Thanks

 

[Sam1911]

There's really only one way to choose.

Take her to an appropriate range facility and have her run a few drills against a shot timer. See what she really shoots best, most accurately, fastest.

Then teach her that holing up somewhere defensible with 911 on the phone is far superior to killing ANYone ... and far, far superior to dying trying to defend the TV set.

 

[Telekinesis]

It really is up to her and what she prefers and shoots best. Make sure she's up on how to use it (like Sam said, find cover and hide until there's no option) and that she'll actually shoot if she needs to. I hear a lot of girls that age (my sister is 18) say that they'll only shoot to wound or scare off the guy and not really try to hit him.

But if I were in that position, I would recommend that she use the AR15. You have the option of having more ammo on the gun (I'd still recommend using the 30 rounds mags as opposed to the 10 round) and more options of adding accessories if you want night sights or a red dot and a flashlight (all appropriate for a HD gun IMHO). I'd also recommend a good combat shooting class if she would be interested in doing one. If you really want to go all the way, make her an SBR. Nothing like a 17 year old girl who knows how to use a SBR AR15 to keep out the riffraff!

As an aside, if I could find a girl who had her own SBR as a teenager for HD, I would marry her in a heartbeat! So while you may keep her (very) safe, you run the risk of her attracting a gun guy

 

[Jaxondog]

shotgun

 

[Sam1911]

shotgun

While that is a highly conventional answer, it really doesn't address these points:

...much lighter and shorter to handle inside the house. Also, it has a lot less recoil...

Shotguns are not a bad idea, but it has become increasingly accepted that a carbine is a very capable and compelling home defense weapon which can be superior to shotguns in some ways.

And the most important of those would be, which can she be expected to practice, practice, practice with? It is cheaper and a whole lot easier on the body to practice a lot with a light recoiling 5.56 autoloading carbine.

 

[aaronu]

Hm. Seven acres isn't far for a .223 round through a window. Just saying.

Get something else; something stupid simple to operate and that won't overpenetrate and take out the family pet or the UPS driver with bad timing.
Not because she's a girl, or even a teen, but because you need make things as easy as possible so she has less to deal with if it ever comes down to it. Whatever the choice, make sure it is one she is very comfortable with.

If you're thinking carbine, maybe a pistol caliber lever gun or M1 carbine. Can she hold and fire an AR or a Mini-14 with one hand while on the phone to 911 with the other?

You mentioned going to the range but what about gun safety, defensive firearms classes, and "lethal force" training?

I won't insult your intelligence any further with mention of layered defenses, emergency plans, etc.

 

[Carne Frio]

She is 17. Skip right to the AR or Mini, unless
she wants the Carbine. I've seen younger kids
handle them without a problem.

 

[GEM]

www.corneredcat.com is a great resources for female firearms issue.

My daughter who is not a big gal, thought a 9mm Glock was just fine.

She could rack it as a teenager.

 

[Sam1911]

that won't overpenetrate ... If you're thinking carbine, maybe a pistol caliber lever gun or M1 carbine.

Remember, 5.56mm in the right loadings penetrates building materials far LESS than common 115 - 230 gr. pistol bullets or 110 gr. M1 Carbine slugs.

But absolutely take a solid defensive handgun along with you to the range when evaluating her abilities. If she makes better hits, faster with a handgun than with the AR-15, then encourage her to choose that as her default.

Don't rely on anything you assume about how well she can shoot either. Get out the shot timer and the human silhouette targets (IDPA/USPSA type targets work fine) and find out for real.

 

[aaronu]

I can't remember what I didn't know. Thanks for the clarification, Sam.

 

[RoboDuck]

20 gauge.

 

[mljdeckard]

The average 17 yo female can hand an M-4 type carbine just fine. (I have some midget female soldiers who figured it out.)

(Now aren't you guys proud of me for not looking at the thread title and saying; "Is she really that much of a threat ALREADY?!" )

 

[hso]

shoots 4-H modified trap with the local team

She's good with a trap gun, right?

 

[catnphx]

Shootniron - I think anything will work fine ... SG, carbine, handgun ... it's all good but it must work for her. My 17 year old daughter has access to our safe ... I trust her and she knows how to handle my handguns.

Speaking of 17 years old ... just read this in Phoenix:

17 year old shoots intruder coming through doggie-door

A 17-year-old girl shot at a man who tried to break into her Glendale home through the doggie door, police said Tuesday.

Shortly after 11:30 a.m. Monday, Glendale officers responded to a call of a burglary in progress at a home near 71st Avenue and McLellan Road, Glendale police Sgt. Brent Coombs said.

The 17-year-old told police she heard her door bell ring but did not answer.

A short time later, she heard someone go over her gate to the backyard. She then saw a younger man reach through the home's doggie door and attempt to unlock the latch, Coombs said.

The 17-year-old armed herself and fired a shot at the doggie door, Coombs said. The suspect fled, although it's unknown if he was injured, Coombs said.

Officers searched the area, but were unable to locate the man.

The suspect is described as a Black man in his late teens or early 20s. He is estimated at about 5-foot, 6-inches to 5-foot, 8-inches with a thin build. He was last seen wearing a navy blue sweatshirt with a hood, blue jeans and a wool winter cap.

 

[snakeman]

Have you considered a pump 410. It should have moderate recoil and delivers quite a blow when loaded with pdx1 in 3" Are you wanting a semiauto carbine or a lever action 44 mag? Ok time for me to get on topic. I know you are wanting a semi-auto so just get her out to the range and figure out what she likes.

 

[Nushif]

I'd still let her pick it.
Unless of course she's already good with something she owns and feels comfor- ... wait! She is!

Why not just give her a nice upgrade to something she already likes, rather than you know ... making the kid who wanted a violin learn the piano?

 

[shootniron]

Hey, thanks guys...more thoughtful input and suggestions than I expected.

For a little more about her...

She is very level headed girl that is pragmatic about her approach to life in every aspect. She has had a lot of exposure to talk about self defense and about so much that is involved in it including that situational awareness is her best defense against having to use force to protect herself. With that said, she also understands that there are times when the only thing that she can do is protect herself by stopping the threat by the most effective means that she has available at the time and if a gun is that means...so be it. She has also been trained to retreat to the safest area of the house and be on the phone with 911 as quickly as possible. However, our house is about 4000sq ft on one level, so reaching that area from some parts of the house could be dicey if multiple intruders are involved. While in the safe room, she understands and accepts that if an intruder breeches that door, she has no choice but to act to stop the threat.

As to her shooting ability, she is fairly competent with most firearms. However, I feel like and will verify that she is better equipped with a long gun than a handgun. He brother and I shoot some competitive pistol and we have timers and targets that we will use to rate her use of all of the guns she has available to her. I do know for a fact that she can bust steel reguarly with the AR and mini at 300yds, so she is comfortable shooting either of those...we just have to determine of all of the guns, which she is most accomplished with. I also understand that the skills she has developed and demostrated at this point in time do not imply that she does not need a lot of practice to tranfer those to self defense. She is very athletic while at the same time a "real girl" (just got home from the store a little while ago with her first prom dress), but I know that she will embrace the challenge of defensive firearm training in the same manner that she does her sports. I also know, that as soon as we can get her scheduled for some formal training, she will be chompin' at the bit to get at it.

Thanks guys and please continue to give me ideas and things to think about and plan for...I need it.

 

[JustinJ]

Of all my carbines my GF prefers my Colt 6720 the best because of the weight. In pistols she likes her russian Makarov best. I'd prefer she kept something a little bigger in the car but improved balistics is no advantage if she's not comfortable with the gun. Her favorite home defense weapon is Samson, our male dog.

 

[mortablunt]

Hi-Point carbine, any model, your choice. For reasons I have posted before and elsewhere, I don't really like the 5.56 round as an HD choice. I'd rather see someone use a dedicated pistol caliber carbine, or a mid to full size rifle cartridge for people. Also good is the Beretta Cx4 in any caliber of your choice, but the Hi-Point is cheaper and is a better gun in many small but meaningful ways. Plus, it's a bit easier to figure out the Hi-Point in a pinch. I wouldn't start someone off with an AR for an HD gun. Still, you do have seven acres and no neighbor issues. An AK in either 7.62 or 5.45 wouldn't be a bad choice, coming out to roughly the same length when held at the shoulder, as a handgun at proper extension in a Weaver stance.

Remember, 5.56mm in the right loadings penetrates building materials far LESS than common 115 - 230 gr. pistol bullets or 110 gr. M1 Carbine slugs.

Yes, and those loads are intended for varmints- not people. A JHP 5.56 would be a better choice for an AR or a Mini. Here are some penetration tests done in ballistic gel with various Hornady TAP ammo. Of the 5.56 TAP loads, only the 75gr TAP BTHP, the 62gr TAP Barrier, and the 75 BHTP W/C T2 made it in deep enough to meet the FBI's minimum penetration standards with the first only barely reaching the recommend 12 inches. http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/WebData/HornadyRifle/HornadyRifle.htm

But absolutely take a solid defensive handgun along with you to the range when evaluating her abilities. If she makes better hits, faster with a handgun than with the AR-15, then encourage her to choose that as her default.

Highly unlikely that she will naturally be a handgunner; the only person I've ever met who was like that is my brother, and everyone was surprised. Also, she is a teenager and will not be 21 for a good while; that poses some legal challenges. IIRC, longarms are okay for minors, but handguns are pretty close to forbidden. Longarms also have handling and lethality bonos over handguns.

 

[AirForceShooter]

Why not a handgun?
My daughter was shooting a 1911 at 14.

AFS

 

[Sam1911]

Why not a handgun indeed? Couple of reasons, perhaps, but it really still boils down to this:

Don't rely on anything you assume about how well she can shoot either. Get out the shot timer and the human silhouette targets (IDPA/USPSA type targets work fine) and find out for real.

 

[hso]

Please keep in mind that she's going to be defending herself within the house and not out to 300 yard ranges.

Also keep in mind that if you're going to evaluate her do so at inside the house ranges and with a simulation of conditions. Forting up allows he to avoid many of the problems of the unrealistic house clearing scenarios people fantasize about. That will permit her to use a compact shotgun, rifle or handgun.

Lastly, make the firearms she's using in the realistic evaluation suitable for the use. Don't ask her to take her trap gun against an M4gery or pistol. Be sure she has an 18" version of what she shoots trap with since she's familiar/practiced with that type of shotgun.

 

[charlie echo]

A shotgun and a revolver, and then a 16" or 18" bbl rifle, such as a SOCOM 16 or Ruger Scout 308.

A pump or double barrel shotgun (S/S or O/U, 20" to 18" barrel)
and a 357 six-shot revolver, 3" or 4" bbl (Ruger GP 100) loaded with either 158+P Special or 357s. with a good holster and perhaps a gun belt. Later, if the lady goes backpacking or camping, can load with hard cast 180 grain vs four-legged threats.

While we like our Browning semi-auto shotgun for targets, pumps are more reliable as almost as quick on followups

 

[JustinJ]

One thing to be considered with rifle calibers is that the noise and flash indoors could be problematic if a second shot is needed. Thats something to be aware of but there is no safe way to really prepare for it.

 

[Resist Evil]

In the March 2012 Guns & Ammo magazine beginning on page 70, there is an article about using a .223 indoors for defense. To me, it seemed to be essentially a multiple page advertisement for Winchester's PDX1 .223 ammo, but it might be interesting to some.