Home defense gun for my teenage daughter...

[sidheshooter]

She's *already* functionally competent with the AR platform?

Not the only choice, by any means, but I think the M4 option is worth exploring, that being the case.

Either that or something like a Glock 17, with an eye towards more handgunning and/or CCW when she is older. Make it something fun for her to practice with. So long as you add some legal/ethical/tactical training, I don't really see how you can go wrong; she's going to be much better equipped to defend herself when home than most kids her age, so good for you whichever way you go.

 

[dprice3844444]

12 or 20 gauge rem 870 7 shot 00 or 04 buck.if the perp doesn't run like hell when he hears the slide rack,he deserves the end result.shotguns end problems rather swiftly.for a backup,small revolver.train her well,grasshopper.

 

[snakeman]

I would think that it would be best for her to take her cell phone and a shotgun and hide in the closet. Call 911 and let them know that there is someone there that isn't supposed to be and that she is hiding in the closet. Then lie in wait and if the burglar opens the door send him flying. It's better to replace stolen items than to confront a burglar and someone lose their life.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

The AR is great because it can be modded to the user. Depending on her size, style, manner of shooting, etc the rifle can be changed to best fit her needs. This is less possible with other rifles and shotguns.

And a well made AR with Hornady TAP is better than a shotgun for home defense, IMO.

 

[shootniron]

snakeman

I would think that it would be best for her to take her cell phone and a shotgun and hide in the closet. Call 911 and let them know that there is someone there that isn't supposed to be and that she is hiding in the closet. Then lie in wait and if the burglar opens the door send him flying. It's better to replace stolen items than to confront a burglar and someone lose their life.

I do think what you propose here is what I posted in #17. We are not into protecting property from being stolen...we only protect ourselves and family members. Hopefully, the alarm would give her time to reach a safe area before someone would know she was there. BUT, I think that most times when people enter a house, they know whether or not someone is inside. Also, response time for LEO would be more than 20 minutes as we live at the city limits, but we are served by the SO and it is in a neighboring town and there only 3 deputies on patrol to cover the entire county per shift.

shootniron

She has also been trained to retreat to the safest area of the house and be on the phone with 911 as quickly as possible. However, our house is about 4000sq ft on one level, so reaching that area from some parts of the house could be dicey if multiple intruders are involved. While in the safe room, she understands and accepts that if an intruder breeches that door, she has no choice but to act to stop the threat.

 

[shootniron]

AirForceShooter

My daughter was shooting a 1911 at 14.

My daughter was too as we are a 1911 family...so to speak. But, and we will verify this, I am fairly sure that she is more confident and comfortable with a long gun.

 

[shootniron]

GEM


My daughter who is not a big gal, thought a 9mm Glock was just fine.

Lord, I hope my doesn't.:banghead:

But, we will give the 17 a try.

 

[shootniron]

HSO

Please keep in mind that she's going to be defending herself within the house and not out to 300 yard ranges.

Also keep in mind that if you're going to evaluate her do so at inside the house ranges and with a simulation of conditions.

Thanks and that is the reason that I said this...

I also understand that the skills she has developed and demostrated at this point in time do not imply that she does not need a lot of practice to tranfer those to self defense.

as soon as we can get her scheduled for some formal training, she will be chompin' at the bit to get at it.

 

[jeepnik]

The lass seem quite well versed in firearms. Why not just ask her what she wants, and go from there.

 

[shootniron]

Telekinesis

As an aside, if I could find a girl who had her own SBR as a teenager for HD, I would marry her in a heartbeat! So while you may keep her (very) safe, you run the risk of her attracting a gun guy

Yeah, great...like I need another gun nut hanging around my house.

 

[shootniron]

jeepnik

The lass seem quite well versed in firearms. Why not just ask her what she wants, and go from there.

Good idea and this is what I will do when we can actually have a little range time to let her understand more of what a self defense situation might be like.

 

[MtnCreek]

Yeah, great...like I need another gun nut hanging around my house.

A guy told me one time that he made his daughter keep a Bible in her console. His reason was if any boyfriend wanted to go from his side of the car to hers, he first had to get through Luke, John, Mathew,....... An SBR would probably work better.

 

[mavracer]

I know I'm pretty comfortable with either of my daughters using their 870 20g for SD of course they can both run a carbine too if necessary.
Allow her to learn the use and capabilities of whatevers avaliable then she'll be better capable of using it if the time comes.

As far as dating my daughters I always like to take suiters shooting with my girls right off the bat. So if they're not inclined to respect my girls they might as well fear them.

 

[Manny]

I think either the AR or Mini will work well, but I respect Massad Ayoobs thinking in this matter. He views handguns as infintry, to be used if moving through the house, as it is fairly easy to disarm someone of a long arm. He views long arms as artillary, to be employed from fixed positions.

I'd make sure she has access to a handgun as well as a long arm.

 

[shootniron]

as it is fairly easy to disarm someone of a long arm

.

If you know what you are doing. It is fairly easy to get shot if you do not.

 

[mortablunt]

^ Trying to disarm someone of anything is actually a lot harder in practice than in theory. Ever tried to take the TV remote from your brother? Even if you have good motivation (like not being beaten up unless you get it in 15 seconds or less), it's still almost impossible.

 

[allaroundhunter]

My little brother, who is younger than your daughter and I would bet much smaller, has been trained how to use our AR for home defense purposes. He is accurate with it, and as fast as I am with follow up shots. Contrary to mortablunt's post, all good HD 5.56 rounds are not 'varmint' rounds. Hornady TAP rounds are what stay in our AR, and there are many other good ones out there. You will not find a round that will reliably stop a threat that won't also penetrate a wall, it just doesn't happen. I would also recommend that if she is best with the AR to give her more than a 10 round mag, I prefer 20 and 30 rounders.

 

[mortablunt]

I'm pointing out shortcomings in penetration.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/WebData/HornadyRifle/HornadyRifle.htm

Of the six 5.56 rounds tested, only half of them even reached 12 inches of penetration with the greatest penetration depth being 15 inches. The popular 55 gr Hornady TAP made it not even 9 inches in. It was only with the heavy loadings in either 62 or 75 gr that 12 inches of penetration was reached. The largest permanent cavities were generated a few inches before the the maximum depth was reached.

This link leads to even more information with a large variety and even includes ammo recommendation. I'd seriously consider giving it a good look over no matter what you use for HD or carry.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.223

 

[allaroundhunter]

I'm pointing out shortcomings in penetration.

Rifles also do damage by the energy that causes a larger permanent cavity than the caliber itself. A 5.56 rifle using the 55 gr TAP ammunition that you cited will do more damage than a 9mm with a premium JHP that penetrates 12" (given the same shot placement).

And it is never 12" to get to vital organs, front to back or side to side. In either case, the 55 gr TAP round would be reaching its point of largest permanent cavity as it is passing through vital organs.

 

[Telekinesis]

Disarming someone pointing a long gun at you with the intent to use it is a pretty difficult endeavor. For one, the person starting out with the gun usually has more leverage than the person holding the muzzle. If you add a one or two point sling into the mix, it just gets more difficult for the person trying to take it away.

Also, she is a teenager and will not be 21 for a good while; that poses some legal challenges. IIRC, longarms are okay for minors, but handguns are pretty close to forbidden.

There are no legal challenges posed by a minor using a pistol for defense within their home in the vast majority of states. They could not legally own it (and that's 18, not 21) but that's the only likely restriction. They could legally use it to protect themselves. In most of the US, minors can shoot pistols freely and in some cases even carry them without adult supervision. (Thinking hunting regulations from several states)
There may be a few state laws that prohibit a minor from having access to a pistol ("safe storage" laws) but there are very few states with those on the books.
Obviously the subject of minors using handguns varies from state to state, but I have found that this holds true for the majority of states.

And it is never 12" to get to vital organs

IIRC that number for bare gelatin testing was created to take into account a bullet reaching vital organ AFTER penetrating light intermediate barriers like auto glass and sheet metal.

I'm still sticking with my SBR AR recommendation though

 

[allaroundhunter]

IIRC that number for bare gelatin testing was created to take into account a bullet reaching vital organ AFTER penetrating light intermediate barriers like auto glass and sheet metal.

That's what I'm saying. She will not need 12" of penetration to stop a threat. Some people swear by that....for rifles and home defense, I don't.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Back on track for ST&T, folks, or this one's going to General.

The question is:

I need opinions on teaching my 17yr old daughter to use a carbine for home defense when she is at home alone.

So: Yes or no is less on topic here in ST&T than WHAT to teach and HOW to teach it. Let's stick to the question, please. There are no hardware answers to software questions...

 

[snakeman]

Ok, I would assume that the best way to teach her how to handle her carbine in a home defense scenario would be to build a tarp mock up of your house somewhere and have her completely memorize the entry and exit routes and well as run house clearing drills. And assess cover and retreat routes and locations throughout the actual house. Also work on shooting around corners without peeking much. Be sure she is quick at clearing jams. Do all this the two guns she shoots best, put one gun in one part of the house and one gun in a completely different area of the house. Finally, be sure she gets professional training.

 

[Burt Blade]

I am totally comfortable betting my life on any reasonably well-built AR-15 weapon, loaded with standard “ball” ammunition. I see no reason that Shootin Iron’s daughter, a reasonably regular shooter, is ill served with an AR-15.

Birdshot can go through drywall with enough energy left to kill. (Don’t believe it? Try it yourself at 3-5 yards.) Misses with buckshot kill just as dead as 5.56mm. (If not quite so far away.) My thinking is, if she can get the hits, and is comfortable with it, practices, and _has a plan_, she can use the weapon to good effect. No 5.56mm round fired through body of an attacking intruder is likely to go very far astray.

For the smaller-statured lady, an AR-15 with adjustable buttstock will take care of any “fit” issues.

The AR-15 and its cousin the Mini-14 work, and well. Good enough is good enough. Don’t sweat it.

 

[snakeman]

I would also consider using v-max.