Home defense handgun

[lxd55]

.38 da revolver

 

[Nom de Forum]

An XDm won't limpwrist like a Glock would. Give it a go, I bet she would love the XDm.

"An XDm won't limpwrist like a Glock would"? A XDm can malfunction just like a Glock can malfunction when fired by someone with a limp wrist. So can other semiautomatic pistols of similar design.

 

[35 Whelen]

Neither a semi auto's mag release nor a revolver's cylinder release are required to operate the firearm, provided that it starts out loaded, which is probably how an HD handgun is going to be kept. But in point of fact, you can load a semi auto without ever using the mag release...you may not be able to load a revolver without using the cylinder release (this assumes you don't for some reason keep your HD handgun with an empty mag in it for some weird reason)

I have yet to find the manual safety or decocker on any of my semi automatic handguns. If you pick a gun that has both a safety and a decocker and expect a non-shooter who is not familiar with it to know how to use those under stress, that is a failure in your part, not the gun's

This is all understood and at this point you're arguing just to be arguing because you prefer semis. But since none of your semis have de-cockers or safeties, surely you don't think they don't exist, do you? I think your assertion may point to a limited exposure on your part to different brands and types of semis.

Like I said, my opinion is based on what I've seen time and again on my private range and years ago when I still used public ranges. As I mentioned in a previous post, my wife is very proficient and likely can outshoot most men here with a full size Colt 45 ACP. But she and I are far more comfortable with her carrying a revolver because of the revolvers inherent simplicity.

35W

 

[Nom de Forum]

Small shotgun such as a pump .410 loaded with large birdshot.

While MattyT's wife may find it easier to hit a target with what you suggest, terminal ballistic effect on an attacker may be far less satisfactory than a single bullet from a .38Spec. I think if you do some checking you will find the majority opinion is that birdshot is a bad idea for a self-defense load.

If you MUST get her a handgun, definitely a .38 revolver. After some fairly intense training from me, my wife qualified for CHL using my Colt Series 70 45 ACP scoring 247 out of 250. She was very proficient with it and knew how to use it. But when it came time to buy her a carry handgun, I bought her a lightweight 2" 38. VERY simple top use and after some instruction she's very handy with it.

Good for her! That is however the exact opposite of what my wife did. My wife with just 100 rounds expend in two trips to the range went to a CCW class and qualification taught by a Maricopa County Sherif Department Range Master and qualified on her first try. Granted the marksmanship requirements were rather easy (all shots in the torso of the target from 10 yards). This motivated her to eventually move up to the complexity, power, and recoil of a Glock G22 after some more range sessions and reach a level of proficiency with the Glock that both of us are comfortable with. She still loves the S&W M10 and as indicated in an earlier post I can never sell it and have a hard time getting to shoot it myself. MattyT sounds like we have a similar situation with regard to guns as my primary use full size pistols are now Glock 40s and 10mms. Both of those were not the right thing to start my wife out with if I wanted her to quickly be able to learn enough to use a reasonably powerful pistol for self-defense. Someone earlier suggested a used S&W 10 from J&G Sales of Prescott, Arizona. That coincidentally was were I bought the French National Police Trade-in 3" S&W M10 my wife still likes so much.

 

[Warp]

This is all understood and at this point you're arguing just to be arguing because you prefer semis. But since none of your semis have de-cockers or safeties, surely you don't think they don't exist, do you? I think your assertion may point to a limited exposure on your part to different brands and types of semis.

Like I said, my opinion is based on what I've seen time and again on my private range and years ago when I still used public ranges. As I mentioned in a previous post, my wife is very proficient and likely can outshoot most men here with a full size Colt 45 ACP. But she and I are far more comfortable with her carrying a revolver because of the revolvers inherent simplicity.

35W

I choose not to buy defensive pistols that have manual safeties and decockers because why would I want additional controls to manipulate? You are selectively comparing in order to make the revolver appear superior by dictating that all semi autos have a manual safety and a decocker.

I like both semi auto and revolver, I have and carry both, my wife's is a semi and my mother's is a revolver, both assisted by me in the selection process. I just want fair representation which I feel you were intentionally not providing. I mean, if you want simplicity of operation, why you are picking a semi with a manual safety and a decocker?

 

[BigBL87]

For someone who probably won't practice much, I'd really think about a pistol caliber carbine like someone else mentioned. A lot easier to control and aim a shoulder fired weapon if you aren't real experienced and don't practice alot. I just got into handguns myself and I'm still not as proficient as I am with my shotgun, and while it is not as easy to haul around as my handgun, I'd rather use a shotgun that I am proficient with than a pistol that I can't shoot well.

 

[MattyT]

Thanks again everyone for the replies and time taken to write them. I have gotten a lot of good advice. I had another thought earlier. When I think about her past Glock malfunctions, possibly from limp wristing, I am curious if a hammer fired semi auto would have the problems... Are hammer fired handguns, such as CZ or Sig, able to have limp wristing failures? The thought behind this is to give her more rounds in case she needs them. I do not own a centerfire hammer fired gun but it seems to me that this would take away the reliability issues she had before. Am I wrong?

 

[35 Whelen]

I choose not to buy defensive pistols that have manual safeties and decockers because why would I want additional controls to manipulate? You are selectively comparing in order to make the revolver appear superior by dictating that all semi autos have a manual safety and a decocker.

I like both semi auto and revolver, I have and carry both, my wife's is a semi and my mother's is a revolver, both assisted by me in the selection process. I just want fair representation which I feel you were intentionally not providing. I mean, if you want simplicity of operation, why you are picking a semi with a manual safety and a decocker?

I don't know why you don't want additional controls. Maybe they confuse you, as they do others. Maybe it's because you're following the rest of the flock, only you know the answer to that!

If you'll read the posts, rather than skim over them, you'll see that I was referring to my buddies who chose semis for their wives, BOTH of which had de-cockers.

I like both too. I keep a semi in one of my pickups and a revolver in the other. But again, I've SEEN what happens when inexperienced shooters, both men and women, who won't maintain a level of proficiency try to use a semi with any level of proficiency.

Another case in point is my oldest daughter who is currently serving in the Army and stationed less than an hour from here. Over the years she fired my revolvers many, many times and is fairly proficient with them and also knows her way around the two semis I own. Well, a few weeks ago she had the opportunity to begin work on a promotion part of which required she qualify with a service handgun, the Beretta M92. According to her, she could hardly keep any shots on the regulation 25M target. The following weekend she came home and wanted to practice a little. With the revolvers, she had no problem hitting the steel 25 yd. target. Again, this reinforces my personal experiences and is why I am so against a semi for most women. Choose as you please.

35W

 

[Warp]

Thanks again everyone for the replies and time taken to write them. I have gotten a lot of good advice. I had another thought earlier. When I think about her past Glock malfunctions, possibly from limp wristing, I am curious if a hammer fired semi auto would have the problems... Are hammer fired handguns, such as CZ or Sig, able to have limp wristing failures? The thought behind this is to give her more rounds in case she needs them. I do not own a centerfire hammer fired gun but it seems to me that this would take away the reliability issues she had before. Am I wrong?

Striker fired vs hammer fired really doesn't matter for 'limp wrist' malfunctions. It isn't really a limp wrist that causes it though, that's a misnomer, it's really just holding it poorly/wrong and not having the mass of your arm behind the gun.

What can make a difference is the weight of the gun. Heavier guns, all else equal, are more forgiving to being held improperly because the mass of the gun itself helps the action cycle.

I could see people mistakenly coming to the conclusion that striker fired pistols are more prone to these shooter induced malfunctions since many/most striker fired pistols also happen to be polymer frames that are on the lighter side.

For a non-shooter who cannot/will not learn hold a handgun properly a mid size stainless .357 revolver with a full size grip firing a reliable factory .38spl is a good idea provided they have the finger/hand strength to reliably pull that long heavy double action trigger. You only get 6 rounds (or 7 or 8 with fancy models) but it comes down to that "6 for sure vs 15 maybe" deal. You can forget about expedient reloads though.

I don't know why you don't want additional controls.

Simplicity of operation is a good thing, especially when you are talking about a life or death situation.

 

[35 Whelen]

While MattyT's wife may find it easier to hit a target with what you suggest, terminal ballistic effect on an attacker may be far less satisfactory than a single bullet from a .38Spec. I think if you do some checking you will find the majority opinion is that birdshot is a bad idea for a self-defense load.

Have you ever seen a living being shot at close range with a shotgun? It makes a huge wound. Most don't realize that the ballistics of even a .410 shotgun are on par with a .44 Magnum handgun. (218 - 328 grs. @ 1100 - 1200 fps depending on the load) I used to have some pictures of a sheet of plywood I shot with a .410 and #6 shot at 10' and 20'. The pattern was fairly small and the damage was amazing.

35W

 

[Warp]

Have you ever seen a living being shot at close range with a shotgun? It makes a huge wound. Most don't realize that the ballistics of even a .410 shotgun are on par with a .44 Magnum handgun. (218 - 328 grs. @ 1100 - 1200 fps depending on the load) I used to have some pictures of a sheet of plywood I shot with a .410 and #6 shot at 10' and 20'. The pattern was fairly small and the damage was amazing.

35W

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958

 

[Nom de Forum]

Thanks again everyone for the replies and time taken to write them. I have gotten a lot of good advice. I had another thought earlier. When I think about her past Glock malfunctions, possibly from limp wristing, I am curious if a hammer fired semi auto would have the problems... Are hammer fired handguns, such as CZ or Sig, able to have limp wristing failures? The thought behind this is to give her more rounds in case she needs them. I do not own a centerfire hammer fired gun but it seems to me that this would take away the reliability issues she had before. Am I wrong?

The CZ and Sig can have the same "limp wristing failures". Most semiautos can have this issue. That being said, malfunctions due to "limp wristing" are in my opinion far fewer than generally believed. Having a hammer on a semiauto will not inherently improve reliability.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Have you ever seen a living being shot at close range with a shotgun? It makes a huge wound. Most don't realize that the ballistics of even a .410 shotgun are on par with a .44 Magnum handgun. (218 - 328 grs. @ 1100 - 1200 fps depending on the load) I used to have some pictures of a sheet of plywood I shot with a .410 and #6 shot at 10' and 20'. The pattern was fairly small and the damage was amazing.

35W

No, I have never seen a living being shot with a shotgun if you mean a living human being. I have seen photographs of human beings (living and dead) that were shot with a shotgun. Most of the living human beings in those photos were disfigured by birdshot. There is a big difference between "(218 - 328 grs. @ 1100 - 1200 fps depending on the load" of bird shot and a solid bullet. The former is more likely to painfully maim and disfigure, the latter is more likely to inflict a wound that quickly ends your assailants ability to harm you. Birdshot cannot be relied upon to have sufficient penetration. That does not mean it cannot instantly kill, just that it is not as, nor sufficiently, reliable as buckshot, slugs, and bullets. This is all besides the point as MattyT has said he wants a pistol.

 

[Warp]

No, I have never seen a living being shot with a shotgun if you mean a living human being. I have seen photographs of human beings (living and dead) that were shot with a shotgun. Most of the living human beings in those photos were disfigured by birdshot. There is a big difference between "(218 - 328 grs. @ 1100 - 1200 fps depending on the load" of bird shot and a solid bullet. The former is more likely to painfully maim and disfigure, the latter is more likely to inflict a wound that quickly ends your assailants ability to harm you. Birdshot cannot be relied upon to have sufficient penetration. That does not mean it cannot instantly kill, just that it is not as, nor sufficiently, reliable as buckshot, slugs, and bullets. This is all besides the point as MattyT has said he wants a pistol.

Agree

 

[35 Whelen]

By beings, I meant living beings, animals. I'm glad you've seen pictures, I was basing my experience on animals I have killed at close range with a shotgun. Messy. Anyhow, lots of internet based opinions here. YAWN...I'm out.

35W

 

[BLB68]

Anyhow, lots of internet based opinions here. YAWN...I'm out.

35W

Funny how many of those you find on the Internet these days.

 

[Deanimator]

A cellphone call to 911 from a well-armed woman should be enough to wait out the badguys.

WHAT "bad guys"? At this point, you've ONLY heard a noise.

Are you going to call the cops EVERY time you hear a noise at night?

What are you going to do when they stop coming?

 

[Warp]

WHAT "bad guys"? At this point, you've ONLY heard a noise.

I must have missed how/when this thread turned into a "what if" scenario in which you simply heard a noise and are now reacting.

Did OP ask that as a follow up somewhere? Link/quote?

 

[Nom de Forum]

By beings, I meant living beings, animals. I'm glad you've seen pictures, I was basing my experience on animals I have killed at close range with a shotgun. Messy. Anyhow, lots of internet based opinions here. YAWN...I'm out.

35W

LOL! Unless you are in law enforcement it is very rare to see someone shot with a shotgun. I am not a LEO. If you asked Vets, like me, of the last 30 years how many times they saw someone killed by a shotgun the number would be very small. You really are behaving arrogantly to assume I have not seen animals killed at close range with shotguns. I have killed animals with shotguns - quail and deer. But neither of those is a good example of the effects of a shotgun on a human being and that is the relevant point! Guess what, I was using #7 1/2 shot on the quail and a 1 ounce slug on the buck. Both are appropriate loads for what I was hunting. Fortunately I will never again be restricted to using a shotgun for deer season now that I am back in Arizona. What a handicap to be restricted to a shotgun. I don’t care what wounds you have seen birdshot causing, very few people with any experience, or if not experience, knowledge of birdshot terminal ballistic performance on human beings recommend it. Perhaps you should expand your horizons beyond your narrow experience and crack a book or do a web search on the subject. Don’t give me any nonsense about internet based opinions. Here is a news flash for you - most of the opinions people hold are based on knowledge gained from the communication of the experience of other people. Do you really think most of what you know is not? Give me a break! Glad you are out of this thread as you are not helping MattyT with his decision on a pistol.

 

[Tirod]

She hasn't even got the gun yet and everybody is arguing her best tactics in using it.

Please, just stop.

First, husband, step aside. You don't pick the gun, and you won't be there if and when she needs to use it, right? IT'S ALL ON HER.

So, what you need to do is get her hooked up with the other female shooters in the area who understand they have a newb and who can fill her in - woman to woman.

As a veteran husband of 40 years, I'm going to suggest you can't do that. Neither can anybody responding on the internet. Not happening.

Don't be the micromananger, be the facilitator. Arrange a meeting with friends, and invite other friends who understand they can take the opportunity to discuss and arrange a get together and go have some fun, a girls day at the range. And just don't get the smirky faced when it all works out, because women can spot manipulation at the drop of a hat.

Don't push, shove, or recommend, and most of all, stay out of the way. Let her find her pace and how she wants to do it. Just support - make room in the budget for her purchase of a firearm. Don't go google eyed if she shows up at at home with a wrist brace AR15 in 6.8, or a HK P7, or any other gun you would have never considered.

They sometimes like to do that - a bit in your face - just to assert their identity. Shooting a potential rapist is quite personal, they are getting in touch with who they are, not who you would like to mold them to be. People are not raised in America to think they can go around killing others. It takes being comfortable with the rules first, and being informed about what the real circumstances are all about. And what the potential problems are, even when it's entirely justified.

Don't lose your focus on this, just consider that she will likely appreciate a new gun handed to her about as much as a new outfit from Victoria's Secret. It's a much better deal if she's the one who decides on what to bring home.

 

[mac66]

This looks like a three person discussion but I will throw in my 2 cents.

In my experience self/home defense comes down this....

1. Nobody wants to get shot
2. The mere presence of a gun solves most problems (see #1)
3. Any gun is better than no gun (see#1)
4. Despite 1 & 2 above, one must be ready, willing and able to use deadly force
5. One must be confident, competent and safe when handling a gun
6. Hits counts more than caliber

What it comes down to IMO is that a person should use a firearm they can shoot well (competence) and handle safely. They need to have confidence in knowing they can hit what they shoot at if they ever have to use it. That may be a .22 or a 44 but it is up to them to decide. I know people who have started with .22s and have moved up as they become more familiar and competent with larger calipers. I know people who continue to use .22s because they are confident in their ability to make hits. (a hit with a 22 is worth more than a miss with a 44).

 

[Nom de Forum]

She hasn't even got the gun yet and everybody is arguing her best tactics in using it.

Please, just stop.

First, husband, step aside. You don't pick the gun, and you won't be there if and when she needs to use it, right? IT'S ALL ON HER.

So, what you need to do is get her hooked up with the other female shooters in the area who understand they have a newb and who can fill her in - woman to woman.

As a veteran husband of 40 years, I'm going to suggest you can't do that. Neither can anybody responding on the internet. Not happening.

Don't be the micromananger, be the facilitator. Arrange a meeting with friends, and invite other friends who understand they can take the opportunity to discuss and arrange a get together and go have some fun, a girls day at the range. And just don't get the smirky faced when it all works out, because women can spot manipulation at the drop of a hat.

Don't push, shove, or recommend, and most of all, stay out of the way. Let her find her pace and how she wants to do it. Just support - make room in the budget for her purchase of a firearm. Don't go google eyed if she shows up at at home with a wrist brace AR15 in 6.8, or a HK P7, or any other gun you would have never considered.

They sometimes like to do that - a bit in your face - just to assert their identity. Shooting a potential rapist is quite personal, they are getting in touch with who they are, not who you would like to mold them to be. People are not raised in America to think they can go around killing others. It takes being comfortable with the rules first, and being informed about what the real circumstances are all about. And what the potential problems are, even when it's entirely justified.

Don't lose your focus on this, just consider that she will likely appreciate a new gun handed to her about as much as a new outfit from Victoria's Secret. It's a much better deal if she's the one who decides on what to bring home.

Tirod you don't appear to be paying attention. MattyT has made it clear in his posts that what you are harping about is not happening. You sound more self-righteous and like a broken record than a conscientious advisor to someone asking for help. MattyT if she shows up with a "wrist brace AR15 in 6.8, or a HK P7" you should be afraid, very afraid, of her ignorance and probably checking account being taken advantage of by a Gun Store Commando and of her having weapons she is far more likely to cause harm to herself due to inexperience. Wow Tirod, I am beginning to think your and some other posters line of reasoning is some kind of PC offensive to ensure everyone knows women can be trusted to choose their own weapons. Nobody doubts that, but they have to want to choose their own weapons and MattyT has indicated his wife does not.

 

[herdman]

Remington 1100 20 gauge semi auto. Light recoil, click off the safety and pull the trigger.

 

[Black Knight]

Many guys have made a big mistake by purchasing a gun for their wife or girlfriend only for her to hate it. Do yourself and her a big favor, take her to several gunshops and let her check out as many guns as possible. Let her choose her gun. Don't choose what you want her to have because it seldom works. When I took my wife to the range she tried several of my guns and chose my 2 1/2" S&W 66 over everything else I had. She made a very good choice. It was a gun I carried on and off duty as a security supervisor and Private Investigator for several years. It never failed to bring me home so I knew it would do the same for her. The point is she is happy with "her" gun and can use it if necessary.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Robert Boatman.....

The late Robert Boatman, www.Boatmanbooks.com made the comment; Intimidation misses 100% of the time.
His meaning: a big scary gun is 100% worthless if you(or any family member/spouse) are unable or unwilling to use it.

I agree with taking her out to shoot or try a few brands, as noted too, only hits count. If the woman can use a medium frame DA revolver & shoot .38spl loads, fine. As she practices or trains, then she can move up to .38spl +P or even a .357magnum, then maybe buy a 9x19mm or .40S&W.
You don't need a 10ga shotgun or a .50BMG M-2 to defend yourself.
Carbines can do okay if the home owner desires a white light or laser system with a pistol caliber.
A 5.56mm or 7.62mm is a bit much IMO for most dwellings. A .38spl K frame or a .357magnum like a SP101 or 686+ with .38spl rounds can do fine to start.