Home Defense: Shotgun or Rifle?

[Soybomb]

I'm just curious where everyone stands. If you hear glass breaking in the middle of the night would you rather grab an 870 or an ar-15?

This stems from a discussion I had a few days ago with a friend who was asking for advice for his first shotgun for home defense. I told him that had I known then what I know now, I don't think I would have gotten a shotgun originally for that job. Between weight, magazine capacity, possibly messing up the pump, large recoil, and overpenetration with an expanding shot pattern with buck shot, I think today I'd pick the ar-15. It seems like it creates a pretty nasty permanent cavity of its own. If it does penetrate through walls, it probably won't be as many, plus it won't be in a widening pattern. Plus in the highly unlikely event your intruder has armor you have an advantage.

What do you think, am I off my rocker? Is the pump shotgun the classic home defense gun thats been surpassed by better things today while most people think of rifle rounds and being one that will go through a city block of houses or am I lured into a sexy black rifle and underestimating the advantage of sending 8 large pellets someone's way in a hurry?

 

[Rob1035]

for me, shotgun. I live in a metropolitan area where long range is not needed for self defense. IMHO, if I'm in a scenario where I *need* to use an AR's range (lets say 150yds), then I should be running, not fighting.

Just my .02.

 

[Jaltered]

I would grab my AR over my 12 gauge pump any day for the following reasons:
- Lighter to carry
- More ergonomic
- Has a flash suppressor
- Shorter to manuever with
- 30 rounds semi-auto (instead of having to chamber each of 7 shells)
- Penetrates the walls less than 00 buck or slugs (see www.theboxotruth.com)
- Penetrates soft armor (buckshot doesn't)
- At across-the-room distances, buckshot doesn't have a chance to spread out anyways
- Contrary to popular belief, the sound of a shotgun being racked does not necessarily cause all criminals to lose bowel control

 

[Soybomb]

I live in a metropolitan area where long range is not needed for self defense.

But then you feel that an ar15 would be less effective at shorter distances to accept the trade offs of the shotguns increased penetration in a more populated area?

 

[bigun15]

I'd take a shotgun because my state has disarmed me of an AR.

 

[badr1]

no Fing way.

you pump a shotgun in the middle of a dark house at night you probaly won't have to worry about having to fire a round and besides that in a nervous "get ready to shoot" situation such as a home invasion your aim with an AR would be minimal at best the shotgun alleviates that problem by "point and shoot" no aiming nesscesary and if you shoot someone with an ar it's not going to take them out of the fight 97% of the time you hitem with 00buck they aint fighting back! i think we have some "my home protection is cooler than yours" going on here.

 

[Art Eatman]

I have an old Model 12 that I've been hunting with for some 35 years. I'm sorta used to it. It holds six rounds in the tube. It's full choke with paper shells. With modern plastic, it's sorta turkey-choked.

I'm willing to try the psychology of the sound of that thing locking into battery. It's worked once, that way, already.

Inside the house, the longest distance I'm likely to have to shoot is some ten yards. I figure Winchester high-brass 7-1/2s are as good as anything. That load was good enough to make a bobcat DRT at 25 yards...

, Art

 

[Jeff White]

The AR. But for the same reason Art picked his shotgun. It's the weapon I have the most training and experience with. My shotguns are locked up in the vault, but the 6920 goes from the squad car to the bedroom.

Jeff

 

[Blue Jays]

Hi All-

While an AR-15 type of weapon is in my future, my preferred goblinstopper would still be a shotgun if I had sufficient time to deploy it. Handguns tend to be, well, handier and I always have one around to tuck behind my thigh when answering the doorbell.

The shotgun just has the ability to dump LOTS of energy into a target. The simple manual of arms and reliability is very attractive in a tool that absolutely must work when needed.

~ Blue Jays ~

 

[Biker]

I'll take my 870 over my Bushmaster for the same reason I'll choose my G23 over my revolvers - having fired both indoors without hearing protection, the shotgun doesn't have the same disorienting effect on me as does the Bushmaster and either should put the BG down pretty much equally.
Biker

 

[goon]

Shotgun.
First off, look at cost. I don't have a huge amount of expendable income. Although I can occasionally afford a relatively expensive gun, a $140 shotgun is way easier for me to just go out and buy than a $900 AR-15.
Second, if you have to go outside in the dark and fight you have a better chance of making a hit with a shotgun. Mine spreads out to pretty well cover a 24" square target at 25 yards with Federal 3" 00 Buck. I figure that if I had to trade shots without the benefit of much light the chance of one of those mean little pellets finding something to make a leak in is better than a round from a rifle.
It does have to still be aimed up close though. Out to 8-10 yards you are still looking at a tight enough pattern that you aren't just going to pepper the whole rear end of a sedan with it.
At any rate, my Mossberg serves me well. I can't say an AR would do any worse, but I also doubt that it could really do any better.
Now, if I had a wife or girlfriend who may have to use it I might have to look at other options.
For me, 3" 00 does fine.

 

[ShackleMeNot]

For me it's my rifle for home defense.

 

[dawgtraxx]

mossberg 500..3" 000 buck
ak47..

 

[The-Fly]

I own a 16" AR and a 870. The 870 is my indoor gun. Why? It makes a bigger hole

On a serious note, if i suspected i had multiple intruders, i would grab the AR instead.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

The AR. It works against folks wearing armor (cheap on eBay, and something I'd wear without a thought if I were gonna do home invasions), it fragments shortly after penetrating sheetrock to minimize risk to the neighbors, and I can make it work/clear a malf in the dark with zero thought (lots of repetition in the Army, thanks). I know I'll probably rupture my eardrums, but them's the breaks.

My wife prefers the shotgun. She has no desire to harm anyone if there's any chance they're not planning on physical assault, and feels a verbal warning and the sound of pumping a round into the chamber will warn off all those folks that don't need to die.

 

[pauli]

there is a degree of correlation to geography when you ask questions like this; the farther southeast, the more likely you are to hear "shotgun," and the farther west, the more likely you are to hear "rifle." it's certainly not iron clad by any means, but it becomes noticable as samples increase.

me, i like shotguns for the job. all my rifles are 22s

 

[AF_INT1N0]

My vote..

Shotgun...

With these..
http://www.antipersonnel.net/sdllc/001.htm

 

[RyanM]

Definitely a rifle. At the low price range, I'd pick an SKS over a similar priced pump. Midde price range, AK-47. High price, an AR, preferrably in 6.5mm Grendel (which is supposed to be relatively quiet, for a high-powered rifle round).

All of the above are semi-auto, lower recoil, and have a better terminal effect than a shotgun. Buckshot is very overrated.

 

[Preacherman]

You might want to check out this thread for some relevant discussions about choosing a shotgun vs. a rifle.

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Body Armor

In a world of increasing use of body armor... More and more on TV and the Inernet, I hear of everyday criminals using body armor, not just bank robbers like the North Hollywood guys.

I wonder: has anyone ever done any gel testing, putting soft body armor in front of the gel? I wonder how much "oomph" it takes out of a .223/5.56 bullet. My bet is the wounding effects would be greatly diminished.

I think a better bet would be a shotgun aimed at the face, since any hit to the face is extremely distracting, if not immediately lethal, and and with a shotgun, hitting a small target is easier. I bet #4 buck would work well in that case. Heck, even birdshot would be effective, since with such a compelte spray, you'd almost certainly take out the eyes.

 

[ArmedBear]

Shotgun. I live in a condo in a city. .223 or 5.56 could go right through someone and into the neighbor's place.

But I actually keep some SP .223 ammo, some lighter .357 Magnum, some nasty 9mm pre-cut stuff, and some defense buckshot around. You can't be too sure.

WRT the body armor thing, if you hit someone with 00 Buck from a few feet away, it will knock them back. If they get up again, shoot at their head.

 

[jd25q]

Peter Capstick preferred a 12 gauge and buckshot for following wounded lions into the brush. If it's good enough for lions at close range it'll do for home defense as well. Less danger of overpenetration as well.

 

[Soybomb]

I live in a condo in a city. .223 or 5.56 could go right through someone and into the neighbor's place.

As far as I've seen though, anywhere 5.56 would go, 00 buck would go farther.

 

[LaEscopeta]

AR...- Penetrates the walls less than 00 buck or slugs (see www.theboxotruth.com)

As far as I've seen though, anywhere 5.56 would go, 00 buck would go farther.

Well, is it possible we are looking at 2 different boxotruth sites? This is the one I'm looking at:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

XM-193 rounds out of a 16” barrel AR-15 went through 12 drywall sheets, and 12 ¾” inch Ponderosa Pine boards.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

12 gage 2 3/4", #4 Buck, 27 pellets went through 6 sheets of drywall.

12 gage 2 3/4", #1 Buck, 16 pellets also went through 6 sheets of drywall.

12 gage 2 3/4", 00 Buck, 9 pellets, went through 7 boards, and 3 pellets went through the 8th board.

12 gage 1 ounce, Max load, 2 3/4", "rifled" slug, went through all 12 sheets of drywall. One penetrated the water jug placed after the drywall, another bounced off it.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm

Same XM-193 and same AR-15, went through 4 drywall sheets, then exploded a gallon jug of water, showering water 15’ away. One round still had enough power to pass through a ¾” pine board and shatter a brick, a second one just got stuck in the board.

"Frangible" 69 grain rounds from the same AR went through the 4 drywall sheets and blew up the water jug, but less then the XM-193 rounds.

12 gage 00 buck shot went through the drywall, the pine board, and broke the brick.

I don't think the above supports 00 buck pentranting more than AR-15 rounds.

 

[Nathan67]

definitely a shotgun, for obvious and previously stated reasons. I seriously doubt a junkie crackhead has considered body armor. chu-chunk, point, shoot, bang, dead bad guy.