"Homeland defense rifles"

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Hmmm, I do agree that the term 'Assault Rifle' has a negative perception in the general public. I've always assumed most people believed in what made this country great, but as I've grown into my 30s, I've realized how many activsits are out there spreading dessention and confusion on America's youth.

Being newly re-introduced to gun culture as I've been investigating my defense options in recent weeks, I've read a lot of threads, read a lot about various guns, while I'm looking at pistols and shotguns as my primary defense, living in a subdivision, I don't have an immediate need for a rifle, but I've been reading about the ARs more and more.

I've been realizing it more everyday what subconcious infuences are bombarding the public, and IMO, these terms do have a negative effect on the pro-2nd ammendment cause. Just the other day, our local news showed cops chasing a guy through a neighborhood, they never did state what they pulled the guy over for, but it was a traffic stop of sorts I believe, but he fled the scene and was caught on the run w/ a pistol and an 'Assault Rifle'

I have no issues with gun ownership, I like guns, but having not been around them for so long, I grew up when/where a lot of folks I knew had shotguns and rifles in their back window, and a revolver under the seat or in the glove box, it was no big deal to me, at one High School I went to in the county, my friends had gun racks in their trucks in the parking lot.

But now I realize that for the last several years I've even subconciously misunderstood the laws of what's available, what's banned, what's going on in general w/ the laws. The anti voice is so strong and has affected the already left of center media to the point that in my opinion, the general non-gunnie public has a distinct perceived differentiation between hunting related shotguns and rifles compared to 'assault rifles' etc.

Have you ever watched Jay Lenno's 'Jay Walking' where he interviews people on the streets of California, asking questions about public leaders, politicians, legal issues, etc., and the bizarre uneducated answers he gets in response? But they know every detail about any tabloid media pop culture trivia of the day? Imagine suveying random people about gun laws, and asking questions about particular types of weapons, or show them pictures of common legal defense weapons, I'd bet that most 'black' weapons of any kind would be assumed by most non-gunnies as either military or police weapons, or some type of illegal/assault/automatic weapon, and I would bet that's a result of the anti voice, mostly coming from repeated subconcious absorbtion of the everyday media blitz.

I guess I can understand why some people might think the 'homeland' term seems a bit corny, or whatever. I don't see a problem with it, I guess I'm weird, I kind of thought it was cool. I guess I can also understand some people here not wanting to be associated w/ 'homeland security', but I didn't personally make that connection.

I know the OP was about 'Homeland Defense Rifle' but I first ran across the similar term 'homeland defender', because I was in the market for a Glock 19, which happens to have a version of it out that comes w/ NS, extra mags, extended controls, and a tactical light, and it's called a HomeLand Defender (warning pdf file) package, put together by a distributer Ellet Brothers (website) and future site for the brand HomeLand Defender basically pitching a similar concept. They're marketing a line of shotguns (Mossberg), Pistols (Glock), and Revolvers (S&W?), as wel as some other gear, under the brand homeland defender.

I saw some posts that thought the Glock version was cool, and some people bought it. I saw some posts that thought the package was cool, but didn't like the Glock light, which I understand, they thought a different light or just the extra mags and night sights was a better package. And other posts thought the name 'homeland defender' was not cool. Before reading that, I thought it was an appropriate name, as someone said 'that's what the thing is', well my thought was, 'that's basically what I want to do w/ the thing' and seeing the 'seal' and flag on the logo, I thought it paid tribute to our country and in some way our military, but was a civilian piece. My interpretation of the brand, or what it meant to me was after 9/11, after seeing criminals having their way with people, I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it any more. To me, it incorporates what I thought the NRA message was this whole time (to me, remember not in the culture for a long time) that the law abiding citizen is trying to defend themselves, while also in some cases enjoying various sporting purposes, etc. That was just my honest impression, FWIW.

Someone else here said (bill larry) "Dont get hung up on the homeland part. My homeland is my area from the street to my back fence and then to the neighbors house, ya dig?" -- I kind of agree. I think if that when people in the gun community are speaking to, or among, the general public, the media, or people in the biz market their products, if there was a shift in lingo to promote the 'defense' (even w/ or w/out the homeland specific definition) position, I think it could have a positive affect on public perception.

Bottom line: I think the average American would be less likely to vote for a ban on defense weapons. By letting the anti and media outlets continue on pushing for 'assault weapons' legislation, we're fighting an uphill battle, because we're not assaulting anyone, we're trying to defend ourselves from being assaulted. Why not get that message out as a community? If we adopt that language, encourage it to be used, and correct the misused terms, we could make a difference.

Thanks for letting me contribute. Sorry, I'm long winded, but not sorry I'm opinionated.

Karz
 
I'm with Titan6 and meef. I don't see a need for name games. Just calling it a "rifle" works fine for me. I suppose if you wanted to be more specific one might say "self-defense rifle", although I'm loathe to pigeonhole any firearm as only having one use.

If possible, i.e. if it makes sense in context, I prefer to avoid using the words "gun," "firearm," "weapon," or "rifle/pistol/shotgun" and to call them devices or tools. I see them as being no different than a fire extinguisher.
Click to expand...

That's just silly. Do you call your fire extinguisher a "fire suppression device"? Do you eat using your "food securing/lifting utensil" and your "sustenance slicing tool"?

Things have specific names for a reason.
 
Why not just "Freedom Rifle," that is what mine is.
I was born into a country that was supposed to respect a individual's right to damn well do as he pleased as long as he did not infringe on someone else's freedom. That may be mostly gone now, but I am working to bring to concept back, along with the concept of a representative republic, and my "Patriotic Home Arsenal," is just a part of that work.





Okay, maybe the PHA is a little over the top:evil:
 
Just putting this out there, but the "defense" over "homeland" thing. The Soviets refered to the AK as a devensive weapon, or rifle for defense all the time. That was their version of spin for their people to foster pride in their largest export.
 
Jorg, the key part of my euphamism is "context." For example, when I'm hanging out here or the range, then I own a shotgun, and am saving up money for a semi-auto version of an AK-47... And I call them guns.

When discussing the rising crime rate in my home city with the local colleges' "People for Positive Social(ist) Change" then I will tell them we shoudl advocate increased defensive device ownership. Starting with student on campus.

Its not:

"gun control" its "anti-self defense"
"assault rife" its "defense rifle"
"junk handgun" its "affordable firearm"
"machine gun" its "legally owned security-grade firearm"
"weapon" its "firearm"
"killing bad guys" its "stopping a threat"

The Democrats and Republicans (who can tell the difference?) have been manipulating the language for decades. It has a massive effect on winning the debate - any debate - this is why Congress debates a "Death Tax" not a "tax on inheirtance over $1 million." It's hard to stand on the floor of the House and argue in support of a Death Tax.

Sarah Brady would have a hard time explaining to Byrant Gumbul why she wants a universal ban on "defense rifles."

BTW, anyone think we can get the manufacturers to stop making "black rifles" in... well... black?
 
Yeah, I've seen Oleg's famous Hello Kitty AR. But even if they all just came in, say, grey or olive drab they might look less "evil" to the masses.
 
It seems unlikely the anti-2As will ever adopt or try to fight any term the pro 2A side comes up with (see pro life vs. pro coice). Therefore Sara and Bryant will never have such a conversation. They will stick with their dishonest and deceptive ways.
 
But that doesn't mean we should play the game. Everytime we use their terminology, it cants the argument toward their paradigm. For example, if I were to call Osama a "religious leader" rather than a "terrorist mastermind" I would be giving him the advantage.

There will, no doubt shortly after November `08, be a push for a renewed Omnibus Crime Bill. Like the last one, it will contain a ban on assault weapons.

Or, it will contain a proposed elimination of legally owned defense rifles.

Words are powerful. Consider the profound effect on the civil rights movement that happened when James Brown stood onstage and sung "Say it loud: I'm Black and I'm Proud!" Virtally overnight, there were no more "Negros" there were "Blacks."
 
I like it too. Its time we fought fire with fire. "Homeland Defense Rifle". Has a nice ring to it. I will use that phrase unless someone can convince me its counterproductive. So far, in my opinion, the arguments against using the phrase have been pretty weak.
 
Sorry, not for me. I just about puked when the .gov came up with the Nazi-esque "Homeland" term. It sounds too much like "Vaterland."

My black rifles are "rifles" or "defensive rifles."
 
I wouldn't have a problem calling the US my Homeland, but IMO, the Department of Homeland Security has given the term a very sour taste.

I think of "homeland security" and I get this vision of Janet Reno's thugs going after Elian Gonzalez.

ElianGonzalez.jpg
 
Unfortunately, I think the term "Homeland" is here to stay. I think we can let it stand the way it is or try and put a small positive face on it using the term Homeland Defense Rifle. Am I missing something??
 
Guys,

The original poster is on to something here. Let's not get into the debate of whether the term is one that you would have used or not. Rather, it is more crucial that we do use a better term.

While I do not use my Master's Degree in my profession, I do have my Master's in Public Relations and Issues Management. One thing I learned through that degree was the METHODS of engineering opinion and manipulating issues.

One of the first things we learned was that IF YOU CONTROL THE DEFINING OF AN ISSUE, THEN YOU CONTROL THAT ISSUE.

Listen, we are all decent guys and are as honest as the day is long. The problem is that we are dealing with people that use manipulative language and tactics to promote their agenda. In general, we don't do this well. We don't because is offends our sense of honor and decency.

And because of this, we allow the antis to DEFINE US. We play the defensive role in EVERY battle. And they gain ground.

As long as they define the terms in such a way that gains a negative emotional knee-jerk response from the general public, they win. Period.

It is PAST TIME that we assert OUR efforts to DEFINE OURSELVES on OUR TERMS.

Otherwise, we will always be Zumbo's terrorists.


I know that public relations tactics and manipulative word games seem distasteful to many persons, and I can understand that sentiment. However, these are the tools of our enemies and have been proven to work. We must take these tools away from them and use them for our purpose.


All the best!


John
 
ALL of my firearms are "HomeLand Security" Weapons..



Thye help me provide Security for My Home and Land :D
 
Any weapon owned for the defense of self and nation is used under the rights protected by the 2nd Amendment. Even is we enjoy shooting them as a hobby, they are still tools of the grim responsibility laid out for us by the 2nd Amendment. So ALL my guns that are not strictly for training, collecting, or curiosity are “Second Amendment Weapons”.

I have Second Amendment Handguns, Second Amendment Shotguns, and Second Amendment Rifles. And when we can get rid of that stupid MG registration Ban and/or I make a bunch more Money, I will have Second Amendment Machine Guns.

May not be as catchy as the term "homeland" but it's what I use. I use it because someone inevitably asks, "What are you talking about?" I will then gently explain what the 2A is REALLY about and why I make a distinction between them and a .22 plinker or a turkey gun. After all, “The Second Amendment is not about duck hunting…”
 
It makes sense. Homeland is already engrained into the general publics mind.

I'm in

Flhawk
 
The word "homeland" is bad enough, but using long/silly/loaded terms like "homeland defense rifle" makes it sound like some bizarre euphemism for something we should be ashamed of.

"Freedom Fries" was a dumb term that made a few people self-satisfied, but came across as idiotic to everyone else.

"Unanticipated asset reallocation" isn't a better-sounding word for theft, it just makes you sound evasive and dishonest.


"Homeland Defense Rifle" might sound smugly satisfying to us, but it'll sound ludicrous at best and dishonest/jingoistic at worst to your average fence sitter.


One of the first things we learned was that IF YOU CONTROL THE DEFINING OF AN ISSUE, THEN YOU CONTROL THAT ISSUE.
Click to expand...

No disagreement there. "Words mean things."

I just don't think that the term "Homeland Defense Rifle" will get us any closer to getting our point across. You know the redneck/drunk/fat/unshaved hunter in all the anti-gun propaganda cartoons? That's the kind of term the Brady Campaign would have him using, so that the fencesitters could enjoy the hilarity of it.

If I were an anti-gunner, I'd work "Homeland Defense Rifle" into a political cartoon, no doubt.

-MV
 
I agree that words do mean things. They can be as powerful a weapon as a firearm used correctly.
I own a Saiga 7.63X39. It's not a true "Evil Black Rifle," but it is black, but no pistol grip. It always draws attention at the range. I refer to it as my "Sport Utility Rifle." It sounds muck more accept able that Assault Rifle (Which I know it's not), and it avoids the inherant political statemnt of "Homeland/"
Just my $0.02. YMMV:cool:
 
I refer to it as my "Sport Utility Rifle." It sounds muck more accept able that Assault Rifle (Which I know it's not)
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"Sport Utility Rifle" is also one of those cute names that's fun to use amongst ourselves, but would be of no help appealing to the fencesitters.

First, the fun/sport aspect of it has nothing to do with the RKBA, so it comes across as whiny hobbyism: "C'mon man, I'm just having fun shooting my evil guns, nothing wrong with that".

The anti response to that is, of course "find a new sport to play, children's lives shouldn't be wasted so that you can have fun."

Also, further linking AR-15 ownership to SUV ownership (in the hip mind, associated with vanilla middle-class white Republican suburbanites who destroy the world without realizing it) does us no favors either.

Not trying to be contrary, I just honestly don't think any of the terms suggested so far are that useful. The lone exception being "Self-Loading Rifle", which is pretty literal and apolitical. I don't have a problem with the term SLR if it works.

Honestly, in my personal life I just avoid the issue by referring to the rifles by their individual types ("AR-15, the civilian version of the M16, basically the same except for the 3rd burst").

-MV
 
Homeland defense rifle is a stupid phrase. Now, maybe in Wyoming in a conservative town it'd work, but not in places like CT.

Think of it like this, two stupid artsy liberal people are in Starbucks, listening to th stupid music starbucks plays, and talking about the finer points in life while sipping their small 8 dollar coffees.

"Hey, so I was watching the news last night, and it showed some crazy redneck gun nut with an assualt weapon complete with pistol grip, bayonet lug, and detachable magazine."

"Oh, really now?"

"Yeah, he was calling it a Homeland Defense Rifle."

"Hahahaha, Homeland Defense Rifle my ass"

"Defend the 'homeland' from what?"

"A nonspecific threat at a nonspecific time at a nonspecific place."

"Oh, hahahahahahaha"

"Man, those gun nuts are idiots, they arent as educated and sophisticated and well groomed and philosophical as us."

"Yeah, because everyone knows that they can control how and when they're born and where, and can easily control the fact that they have a southern accent from 30 years of living there."

"So true, I'm going to a poetry reading tonight, wanna come?"

"Oh yes, I love poetry, it makes me sophisticated and deep."

"Yeah, I got my new poem about why the world needs no more weapons and we should stop all war and do drugs and all sit in starbucks instead."

That's how it would go around here if you called it "homeland defense rifle."

Another thing that might happen is the term will get used mockingly toward the rifles by the antis. If freedom fries worked in your area, I guess the term has an opportunity to work, but in more liberal places like here in CT, it wont.

I think Defense Rifle, or Defensive Rifle would be better, it at least wont get mocked. Defense Rifle is simple and clean, and if we keep saying the term, it'll start slipping out of people's mouths.

We could emphasize how they could be used in riots and natural disasters, and the large capacity magazines give you a better defensive ability, especially when dealing with groups of attackers, which often happens in many robberies.

I think the best term would simply be "autoloading rifle" or "self loading rifle." I like it the best. Completely neutral and self explanatory. "It's a rifle that loads by itself." You could use it on any rifle, FAL SLR, AK47 SLR, Remington 597 SLR, whatever. It fits on anything, and calls the rifle exactly what it is, with no political meaning, no right or wrong. Also, it doesnt mix itself up with anything. Like many people dont know the difference between semi auto and full auto, so if they see auto, they think it's a machinegun. But self loading rifle, just is a rifle that the next shot by itself.

I think Defense Rifle sounds kinda cool, but it sounds kinda cheesy, and Homeland Defense Rifle will just get mocked. I think just calling them the name they were given when they were first invented (self loading rifle) is best.
 
Yeah, but people that don't know squat about guns won't have a friggin clue about the hell a "self loading rifle" is. They'll think its some sort of robotic gun, or remote controlled gun, and thats gotta be banned! Never underestimate the stupidity of others.

Homeland defense rifle is cute because, 1-It sounds pro-American 2-The media uses the terms a lot already, though not the phrase, and 3-It will make the anti's really look like total America hating pro-terrorist types (which they are).

This is a solid idea. Anything is better than the other term, which I won't even use anymore.
 
Why doesn't someone start a voter poll with several of the possibilities already mentioned? This is going circular and there is no consensus opinion. At least a poll would show where most people stand.
 
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