Hot .44 Special loads in Ruger BH

[4895]

I am limited at the local indoor range to shooting 44 special rounds. Anybody here have concerns/advice/reasonable data to load up some 44 special rounds with a lot of thump for my Ruger .44 mag blackhawk? I've read an Elmer Keith report about using a lot of 2400 with lead bullets, something around 18.5+ grains. Anyone else done this?

I have jacketed and lead bullets from 180 grains up to 300 grains available.

I have Unique, 2400, Bluedot, 296, H110, IMR 4227, PowerPistol, and others available.

I want to push the ole .44 special into high gear in a strong .44 mag revolver and plan to separate the brass out from the pack. Any help is much appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[rcmodel]

7.5 Unique with a 240 grain Keith LSWC will give you all the thump an indoor range needs to be thumped, if they won't allow .44 Mags!

If they won't allow .44 Mag?
They won't allow Elmers .44 Mag loads in .44 Spl cases either I betcha!

rc

 

[Lost Sheep]

7.5 Unique with a 240 grain Keith LSWC will give you all the thump an indoor range needs to be thumped, if they won't allow .44 Mags!

If they won't allow .44 Mag?
They won't allow Elmers .44 Mag loads in .44 Spl cases either I betcha!

rc

Sure they will. Once. Before you get banned.

You risk them having a knee-jerk reaction and banning all handloads.

The honest thing to do is to ask them to specify a power level they find acceptable.

The tactical thing to do is to prepare yourself beforehand with data that shows what power levels (and bullet construction) actually damages and does not damage various backstop materials (and in particular, theirs). If you go in showing that their concerns are also your concerns, you have a better chance of getting a fair hearing and a favorable outcome.

Do not give them a reason to mistrust you (as hot 44 specials would do).

Lost Sheep

p.s. I suggest starting your research by asking on this forum what the members know about the subject of backstops, bullet construction, momentum and energy limits are good.

 

[kelbro]

I don't think that a 'hot' 44 special load like the 7.5 Unique behind a 240-250gr bullet even comes close to a 44 Mag load. Elmer's 2400 load is pushing it though.

 

[4895]

As far as I know they only care what the headstamp reads on the brass. I was told I could shoot as many .44 specials as I want.

I would like to try a Keith load with some 2400 or even H-110. Anyone ever try this?

I found this article:
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=4

 

[CraigC]

The 1200fps Keith load is certainly safe for your gun. You're responsible for what your range will and won't allow. If they hear a reverberating boom rather than a pop they'll know something is up.

Brian Pearce supplied some .44Spl data using H110 but most stick to 2400. As God and Elmer intended.

PS, 18.5gr was the old load in balloonhead cases. Throttle back to 17.0gr for solid head cases.

 

[mdi]

A .44 Magnum load will prolly damage the range backstops, or so the range owners believe (it's their equipment, so follow their rules). I have shot at a range that had similar rules and did shoot .44 Special and .38 Special vs their Magnum brothers.. If the R.O. sees a Special case he prolly won't inquire as to the load. The classic load of 7.0-7.5 gr. Unique under a 240-250 gr, lead bullet is plenty for a Special load without the resulting range damage, and won't draw attention with excessive muzzle blast...

 

[4895]

What do you guys think about hot loads in an all steel revolver like a S&W 24? I don't want to shoot these loads in my Taurus 445 lightweight revolver!

Could I push a 240 grain LSWC up to that 17.5 grains of 2400 level without damage?

I think I will start loading some 240 grain LSWC at 15.0 grains and work up to 17.5 and shoot them in my Blackhawk .44 mag and see how they work.

I'm not so concerned about shooting indoors but prefer the A/C to the outdoor temps of 100 deg F. Also, I don't shoot my Blackhawk as much as I would like to. I think I have put about 75 rounds through it and owned it for over a year now.

 

[CraigC]

S&W model 24's are safe for the Keith load.

 

[bubbacrabb]

If you're in AZ, why even worry about the range? You can shoot pretty much anywhere you want anyways. I'm not a range kind of guy, I refuse to shoot at them at all costs. When I lived in AZ I felt comfortable just driving in the country, finding an area 1/4 a mile away from any dwelling and just shooting. I never had a problem other than the hot desert. I used to shoot into the canal berms all the time. Nobody cared. Just drive out of town a bit and the heck with shooting at a range. I cant stand the mall ninjas at ranges anyways.

 

[murf]

still over 105 degrees here in the desert. won't get below 100 till the end of september.

murf

 

[calaverasslim]

Long sleeve, cotton shirt weather with a wide brim hat. Walk in the park

 

[cfullgraf]

What do you guys think about hot loads in an all steel revolver like a S&W 24? I don't want to shoot these loads in my Taurus 445 lightweight revolver!

In my opinion, which ain't worth a plug nickel, is load only standard 44 Special loads in a 44 Special case (same for 45 Colt). If you want 44 Magnum level loads, get a 44 Magnum and load 44 Magnum loads in 44 Magnum cases..

I feel it is not worth the risk getting the hot loads in a weak revolver.

Not everyone will agree.

 

[CraigC]

I know it's a hell of a lot more comfortable in the desert at 100° than it is around here anywhere over 90°!

I feel it is not worth the risk getting the hot loads in a weak revolver.

As long as you have proper load data and use them in proper guns, it's no more or less risky than handloading for any other firearm. It's been done for +80 years.

 

[kelbro]

Problem with loading hot 44 specials is that they could end up in a Rossi, old Colt SAA or old Charter Arms. Probably wouldn't grenade the pistol but it could wear it out a lot sooner.

 

[mdi]

If any of my guns would be considered unsafe for heavy loads in the cartridge it's chambered for, I'll retire that firearm to the safe, not to be shot with anything...

 

[CraigC]

Problem with loading hot 44 specials is that they could end up in a Rossi, old Colt SAA or old Charter Arms. Probably wouldn't grenade the pistol but it could wear it out a lot sooner.

It's easy enough to keep that from happening. Label your boxes. Use the longer Keith bullet. Use a different headstamp. Color code your cartridge boxes. Any of the above.

There are no Colt .44Spl's that would be damaged by the Keith load, unless they were converted blackpowder models.

 

[cfullgraf]

It's easy enough to keep that from happening. Label your boxes. Use the longer Keith bullet. Use a different headstamp. Color code your cartridge boxes. Any of the above.

Nothing is fool proof.

If shooting overloads from established standard loads floats your boat, then have at it.

For me, if I want 44 Magnum performance, I will get a 44 Magnum revolver. I do not care that my 44 Special revolvers are stronger than necessary, they will only see standard 44 Special loads. The extra strength gives a nice factor of safety.

I will agree to disagree.

 

[CraigC]

Nothing in life is foolproof, prudence is the key. As it has always been, it is the handloader's responsibility to know his firearms and his loads. Folks have been loading the .44Spl heavily for +80yrs with nary an incident. That in and of itself speaks volumes. Some folks have this odd need to pigeon-hole the .44Spl as the .44Mag's weaker father and believe it's only suitable for plinking. Which is fine but you completely ignore the cartridge's potential in proper sixguns. If you can't keep your heavy loads out of in appropriate sixguns, then you probably shouldn't be handloading anyway.

A 250gr at 950fps is a good .44Spl working load.

A 250gr at 1200fps is a heavy .44Spl load.

A 250gr at 1450fps is a .44Mag load.

A 355gr at 1250fps is a .44Mag load.

Sometimes all you need is a handy, svelte mid-frame .44Spl:



Sometimes you need a bigger hammer, in the form of a large frame .44Mag:

 

[Lost Sheep]

kelbro, mdi, cfullgraf, CraigC,

Read the O.P.

His range will not let him shoot 44 Magnums (and if he brings in that headstamp, even if they are downloaded, will object, apparently). He is asking about loading 44 Special brass with more-powerful loads and only intending to shoot them in his magnum-chambered gun.

Lost Sheep

 

[4895]

Lost Sheep

Exactly. I want to shoot my Blackhawk more often and in the comfort of A/C until the temps drop into the 90's. If I am going to shoot specials, I don't want to be limited to 5.7 grains of Unique like I use in my Taurus 445 ultralight with 240 LSWC. My concern is mostly about brass life and flying steel projectiles. It only makes sense that any load in a 44 special is just fine in a 44 mag firearm, however, going from a 13 grain max up to the 17 grain area is a bit scary for me as I have never ventured off the path of up-to-date load data. I will load some ammo up Wednesday morning and plan to go shooting afterwards. I don't have a chrony so I can't gather any empirical data.

Should I use magnum primers for these loads?

I will be using hard-cast 240 grain lswc with 2400. Starting grains at 11.0 up to 17.5 with .5 grain intervals in Starline thrice fired .44 special cases, heavy crimping at the groove.

 

[kelbro]

kelbro, mdi, cfullgraf, CraigC,

Read the O.P.

His range will not let him shoot 44 Magnums (and if he brings in that headstamp, even if they are downloaded, will object, apparently). He is asking about loading 44 Special brass with more-powerful loads and only intending to shoot them in his magnum-chambered gun.

Lost Sheep

That's all understood but you can't always control what happens to your reloads. We're all going to croak some day and somebody will end up with your stuff. That's almost as much of a concern for me as my wife selling all of my guns and Dillons for what I told her that I paid for them

 

[CraigC]

I'm not gonna worry about that any more than I'll sit and sweat worrying about getting hit by a bus tomorrow. I don't have any .44Spl's that won't handle the Keith load anyway.....and probably never will. And it's not like I keep thousands of them loaded at any one time anyway.

 

[Lost Sheep]

I'm not gonna worry about that any more than I'll sit and sweat worrying about getting hit by a bus tomorrow. I don't have any .44Spl's that won't handle the Keith load anyway.....and probably never will. And it's not like I keep thousands of them loaded at any one time anyway.

"Can't control what will happen to your reloads. " Yes, point well taken.

The best he could do is label the boxes they are in and perhaps put a label inside the box and hope for the ballistic literacy of whoever winds up with his legacy. A red warning label stating that they are "Ruger Only" overloads as well. But there is no way to guarantee results short of simply using magnum cases.

Lost Sheep

Exactly. I want to shoot my Blackhawk more often and in the comfort of A/C until the temps drop into the 90's. If I am going to shoot specials, I don't want to be limited to 5.7 grains of Unique like I use in my Taurus 445 ultralight with 240 LSWC. My concern is mostly about brass life and flying steel projectiles. It only makes sense that any load in a 44 special is just fine in a 44 mag firearm, however, going from a 13 grain max up to the 17 grain area is a bit scary for me as I have never ventured off the path of up-to-date load data. I will load some ammo up Wednesday morning and plan to go shooting afterwards. I don't have a chrony so I can't gather any empirical data.

Should I use magnum primers for these loads?

I will be using hard-cast 240 grain lswc with 2400. Starting grains at 11.0 up to 17.5 with .5 grain intervals in Starline thrice fired .44 special cases, heavy crimping at the groove.

44 Magnum pressures inside a 44 Special case will not cause the brass to fail if the chamber does not fail. That 44 Special Case loaded to Magnum pressure will not rupture a 44 Magnum chamber, but would endanger a 44 Special chamber. The 44 Special cases are constructed in the same manner as 44 Magnum cases, just a little shorter to prevent chambering in 44 Special firearms. The brass fails AFTER the steel fails (absent some inherent weakness in the brass or chamber dimension fault, in which case EITHER Special or Magnum brass is equally likely to fail).

The caution is that the shorter case of the Special brass will result in higher pressures than if the same powder charge were placed in a Magnum case (and be sure to note that the relationship is NOT necessarily linear).

All the foregoing is to say that your caution "going from a 13 grain max up to the 17 grain area is a bit scary" is well-founded.

Unique does not require magnum primers. Unique is easy to light. Mag primers are for hard-to-ignite powders or densely packed powders through which a flame front might have a hard time traveling.

I only apply a strong crimp if I get crimp jump or am using a powder that requires a high pressure for an even burn. Someone who knows more about Unique can check me on this, but I don't think either is required with Unique, so I don't apply a tight crimp to those loads. Also, in a heavy gun, crimp jump is less of a problem than in lighter guns.

Lost Sheep

 

[CraigC]

Standard primers only with 2400.