flipajig
Member
dont know about green dot but ive used unique and w231 with good results
Hot 44Spl load converted to 44Mag case?
- Thread starter MovedWest
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MovedWest
Member
The data is in!
Alright guys, I did it. Thank you all for your input and advice. I've chrono'd and calculated and have come up with some great numbers as well as a few realizations regarding loads in 44spl cases vs 44mag cases. I've been quiet on the boards recently because this will officially be my 100th post making me a senior member and I wanted it to be a good one.
Through all this I realized that I really like Green Dot in the 44 magnum and it delivers a completely different 44 magnum experience than other powders. The recoil is so light considering the velocities, but is definitely not meager like the 44 special is (no offense to 44spl shooters). I've heard of people using a 22 magnum for hunting deer, but I for one would not feel comfortable doing this. I feel this load is much more suited for hunting larger game than the 22mag, but I would opt for a more powerful magnum round for such a task. I would consider this particular load a good plinking/target/medium game round.
Well... without further ado, here's my data:
Original load:
---------------------
44 Special cartridge
CCI 350 LPM primer (MAGNUM primer!)
Remington 210gr SJHP
8.7gr Green Dot
Average velocity: 1206 fps
Average standard deviation: 17.7 fps
Magnum loads tested:
---------------------
Constants:
44 Magnum cartridge
CCI 350 LPM primer (MAGNUM primer!)
Remington 210gr SJHP
Variables and results:
---------------------
8.7gr Green Dot
Average velocity: 1155 fps
Average standard deviation: 15.7 fps
8.9gr Green Dot
Average velocity: 1187 fps
Average standard deviation: 11.7 fps
9.1gr Green Dot
Average velocity: 1192 fps
Average standard deviation: 5.5 fps
9.3gr Green Dot
Average velocity: 1211 fps
Average standard deviation: 11.5 fps
9.5gr Green Dot
Average velocity: 1217 fps
Average standard deviation: 7.6 fps
Conclusions:
---------------------
Given all the data, it appears that a charge of 8.7gr of Green Dot in a 44 Special case is equivalent to 9.2gr of Green Dot in a 44 Magnum case given all other criteria are constant. There is a .5 grain difference in charge to accommodate for the larger case.
However based on the data, the BENEFIT of loading in a magnum case compared to a special case is more consistent velocities. The average standard deviation of the special cartridges is larger than that of the magnum cases. My hypothesis is the reduced volume of the Special case creates less of a buffer for error. Think of the old "spit in the ocean" comparison. With the 44 special its more like spit in a coffee cup. The same amount of variance has more effect in a smaller area creating greater variance in velocities.
All this being said... I think that even though the revolver, brass, and shooter can stand up to the larger cartridge's load in a smaller cartridge, it produces a better performing round if you load appropriate charges in their respective cartridges.
What do you guys think?
Cheers!
-MW
Alright guys, I did it. Thank you all for your input and advice. I've chrono'd and calculated and have come up with some great numbers as well as a few realizations regarding loads in 44spl cases vs 44mag cases. I've been quiet on the boards recently because this will officially be my 100th post making me a senior member and I wanted it to be a good one.
Through all this I realized that I really like Green Dot in the 44 magnum and it delivers a completely different 44 magnum experience than other powders. The recoil is so light considering the velocities, but is definitely not meager like the 44 special is (no offense to 44spl shooters). I've heard of people using a 22 magnum for hunting deer, but I for one would not feel comfortable doing this. I feel this load is much more suited for hunting larger game than the 22mag, but I would opt for a more powerful magnum round for such a task. I would consider this particular load a good plinking/target/medium game round.
Well... without further ado, here's my data:
Original load:
---------------------
44 Special cartridge
CCI 350 LPM primer (MAGNUM primer!)
Remington 210gr SJHP
8.7gr Green Dot
Average velocity: 1206 fps
Average standard deviation: 17.7 fps
Magnum loads tested:
---------------------
Constants:
44 Magnum cartridge
CCI 350 LPM primer (MAGNUM primer!)
Remington 210gr SJHP
Variables and results:
---------------------
8.7gr Green Dot
Average velocity: 1155 fps
Average standard deviation: 15.7 fps
8.9gr Green Dot
Average velocity: 1187 fps
Average standard deviation: 11.7 fps
9.1gr Green Dot
Average velocity: 1192 fps
Average standard deviation: 5.5 fps
9.3gr Green Dot
Average velocity: 1211 fps
Average standard deviation: 11.5 fps
9.5gr Green Dot
Average velocity: 1217 fps
Average standard deviation: 7.6 fps
Conclusions:
---------------------
Given all the data, it appears that a charge of 8.7gr of Green Dot in a 44 Special case is equivalent to 9.2gr of Green Dot in a 44 Magnum case given all other criteria are constant. There is a .5 grain difference in charge to accommodate for the larger case.
However based on the data, the BENEFIT of loading in a magnum case compared to a special case is more consistent velocities. The average standard deviation of the special cartridges is larger than that of the magnum cases. My hypothesis is the reduced volume of the Special case creates less of a buffer for error. Think of the old "spit in the ocean" comparison. With the 44 special its more like spit in a coffee cup. The same amount of variance has more effect in a smaller area creating greater variance in velocities.
All this being said... I think that even though the revolver, brass, and shooter can stand up to the larger cartridge's load in a smaller cartridge, it produces a better performing round if you load appropriate charges in their respective cartridges.
What do you guys think?
Cheers!
-MW
Last edited:
Asherdan
Member
Nice work up and good info, MovedWest. Should be a good functional load in there. How was accuracy with the 9.1gr set?
Beagle-zebub
Member
I could be wrong, but my understanding was that while sticky extraction/flattened primers/etc. are indications that a load is unsafe, their absence does not imply that a load is safe--that is, just because A implies B, does not imply that the obverse of A implies the obverse of B.
Again, I could be wrong. Someone like rcmodel should definitely weigh in on this.
Again, I could be wrong. Someone like rcmodel should definitely weigh in on this.
MovedWest
Member
Flattened primers and sticky extraction are obvious signs you've gone too far. It's definitely not a good idea to use them as a guide for your charges - and I wasn't. But it's a good idea to look for them when you're working with high pressure charges to know if you're obviously out of bounds. If you don't look for those signs you're being careless and reckless and that's bad!
Anything over 8.9gr in the Special cases became inconsistent and I lost accuracy. I was using consistency as a guide rather than sticky extraction or flattened primers. I still checked every round thoroughly after firing it to make sure it wasn't missing any of those signs.
I just want to make it clear that my goal wasn't to get the same performance out of Green Dot that I get out of 2400. When I want to shake the ground, light up the range, and kill big things I use 2400 and 240gr or 300gr hollow points. That was my primary reason for beginning to work it up in a 44 Spl case. I wanted my magnums to be magnums.
My goal was to develop a round that I could use as a general purpose round and comfortable enough that I could shoot all day at the range without bruising my hand. I do believe I've succeeded.
-MW
Anything over 8.9gr in the Special cases became inconsistent and I lost accuracy. I was using consistency as a guide rather than sticky extraction or flattened primers. I still checked every round thoroughly after firing it to make sure it wasn't missing any of those signs.
I just want to make it clear that my goal wasn't to get the same performance out of Green Dot that I get out of 2400. When I want to shake the ground, light up the range, and kill big things I use 2400 and 240gr or 300gr hollow points. That was my primary reason for beginning to work it up in a 44 Spl case. I wanted my magnums to be magnums.
My goal was to develop a round that I could use as a general purpose round and comfortable enough that I could shoot all day at the range without bruising my hand. I do believe I've succeeded.
-MW
MovedWest
Member
Asherdan - Thanks! I can't speak to the accuracy of that particular charge unfortunately. The range that I tested the loads at was a 50 yard range and I was firing handheld and standing without a spotting scope. I was just trying to not hit my chrony. I will say though that all the charges grouped decently within about a paper plate's diameter plus an inch or so.
I'll load up another batch of rounds with 9.0, 9.1 and 9.2gr charges to see how they print and get back to you with a good answer.
Another one of my goals that I plan to work on next is to see how the load will differ with a standard primer instead of a magnum primer. Like I said before, you just can't find standard primers and although magnum primers are also scarce, they can be found.
Thanks again for upping that loading data for me earlier. That was a HUGE help!
-MW
I'll load up another batch of rounds with 9.0, 9.1 and 9.2gr charges to see how they print and get back to you with a good answer.
Another one of my goals that I plan to work on next is to see how the load will differ with a standard primer instead of a magnum primer. Like I said before, you just can't find standard primers and although magnum primers are also scarce, they can be found.
Thanks again for upping that loading data for me earlier. That was a HUGE help!
-MW
Asherdan
Member
MovedWest said:
That's what I was wondering, it'd be my logical next step.
Thanks for posting your data and impressions of the powder. It's good to have that for a new to me powder. In fact, I haven't been able to find a place, locally or online, that has both XMP-5744 and 2400 and it's put a kink in my reloading and shooting plans. Green Dot is available in a couple of the places that have the 5744, so now I've got some options to think on.
MovedWest
Member
I really like 2400 too. And like you, I've noticed it's getting harder to find. The nice thing about Green Dot is that hardly anyone uses it so as you've noted you can find it pretty easily.
Also consider that loading 9gr of Green Dot vs 20-22gr of 2400 will more than DOUBLE the amount of rounds you get per pound. In times like these, stretching components is a good thing. I guess you could say it's a "green" option for reloading?
(Sorry... bad pun I know...)If you do end up trying these loads out in the future, please let me know how you like them. It would be good to get the feedback of other shooters.
-MW
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