Hot Bluing Set up

[spiker44]

Well just finished building a closed off room with ventilation in my pole barn for a hot bluing set up. Did a few restorations prior and they came out excellent, so I decided to build a room to keep from contaminating the rest of my shop. I also refinish the stocks. Any pointers from you old heads out there will be greatly appreciated.
check out some pics, thanks

 

[rcmodel]

Looks great!

Only thing I could suggest is move the tanks away from the paneled walls before you light up the burners.
Or put some stainless steel sheet on the walls behind the burners.

Hate to see you burn it down.

Some sort of chemical resistant splatter shield on the walls & floor wouldn't be a bad idea anyway.

Bluing salts are insidious once the fumes & splatter / boil overs get on the floor & walls.

It will still be causing rust on steel 50 years after you stop doing it!!

rc

 

[BBBBill]

Where does that fan vent to?

 

[spiker44]

I did move the tanks farther off the walls before I anchored them to the floor after taking the photos. I fired everything up and let it boil without the salts for now to see the exhaust was working and it sucked it right out and the walls never even became warm. I am thinking of the SS backing on the back wall where the salt tank is for splatter. I have used this system before but it was no mine and I agree with you about the mess. Which is why I built the room. My friends is in a small shed outside and after only a few years of work it is a mess. Thanks a bunch for your ideas.

 

[spiker44]

Fan vents to outside air.

 

[spiker44]

What I hope to gain from this thread on this site, other then great ideas on how to improve the shop, is to tap into the vast knowledge here. And get some input on guns that cant be hot blued or problematic guns with raised ribs coming off and such. I know we all learn by our mistakes but if I can avoid a few lessons already learned it would be greatly appreciated. I am a member for only a short time know and have gained so much already.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Only thing I could suggest is move the tanks away from the paneled walls before you light up the burners.

I second what RC said. Also when you cool down the bluing salts tank with water it splatters and pops like a cold piece of bacon in a hot vat of oil. You want to put some sort of metal lining on the walls at least 5' high. I am not sure if you have enough ventilation. You will be able to tell if you have a hard time breathing the atomized sodium hydroxide! Your lungs will burn if you do not have adequate ventilation. Other than that, a good set of rubber gloves to the elbows and a spray bottle full of vinegar will go a long way with comfort. Vinegar is to neutralize the bluing salts if they get on your skin. Good luck!

 

[spiker44]

Remington 1100

This thing was a pig. It was rusted and very gummed up. I should have taken a pic right at the start. I took some right after I started to blast the metal and did some work to the stocks. I thoroughly cleaned it and got it to look pretty good. The barrel was like a brown olive color and the receiver was all rust. but it came out great. Here are a few pics of almost before, and after. I sure picked a heck of a hobby. Lots of work in this.

 

[spiker44]

ok Taurus and thanks for the vineger tip !

 

[spiker44]

Does anyone know if the vent. rib on a Ithaca M-51 will make it thru a hot blue bath?

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Not sure on the M-51. They told us in school that if you are ever unsure or not 100% certain then you should rust blue the barrel. That involves using your boil out tank to dip the barrel, paint layers of rust blue on, and card off each layer with a wire wheel. It gives it a nice deep blue color but it takes approximately 15 coats.

You can find rust blue here:
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...ng-chemicals/classic-rust-blue-prod22820.aspx

We kept our rust blue in a ceramic coffee mug and put that in the boil out tank to keep it warm while in use. Common sense would say to make sure the water line is lower than your coffee mug. Make sure that the water is not boiling, just hot.

 

[FROGO207]

Good looking setup. I work with propane around these parts and the state law is for the tank to be 10 feet from the combustion source to prevent fires if things leak. Especially when indoors. This is a good hobby to have as few are into it at least around here.

 

[spiker44]

Thanks Taurus, I have done some rust bluing and would love to just give it a bath. Three times the work..LOL
Thanks FROGO207. I will put the tank outside of the room and get it away from the combustion. Will check on PA laws Good advice.

 

[Stony]

You have indeed picked a hobby with a lot of work and some frustration to it. The end result can be a lot of pride and satisfaction on a job well done though. Lots of guys don't really realize how much actual work and time actually goes into a nice refinishing job. You should have a lot of fun working with your setup....good job!

 

[TINCANBANDIT]

Most modern shotguns (post WWII) will have vent ribs that are spot welded on.....you probably already know about double barrels

Winchester model 94s made between 1964 and 1982 cannot be hot blued easily....depending on the year many of them were plated with iron before being hot blued (see my write up here: http://tincanbandit.blogspot.com/2014/02/winchester-model-94-rifles.html )

Also many guns (Rugers, old Mausers, Dan Wessons) had a different alloy to the steel, they often turn a plum color, this is natural, you may be able to use a different formula and modulate the temp to mitigate it, but I am not aware of what the real secret in preventing the plum color is.

of course always check to make sure the part going into the bath is steel....I recently made the mistake of not checking a part my Father wanted me to blue....turned out it was aluminum, it was consumed in the bath and destroyed the finish on two other guns

 

[joem1945]

The smith I use built his room and lined it with plastic panels. His exhaust fan vent to outside air.

 

[Jim K]

It will be expensive but I strongly recommend a ****** shower, one with a tank capable of dumping a whole lot of water very quickly when a chain is pulled. (Standard equipment in chemistry labs.) If you ever get hot salts splashed on you, you want to get as much water on it as you can, and you won't have time to run to the bathroom.

Also wear protective clothing - rubber boots, rubber apron, face shield (goggles leave a lot of skin to burn). Even rubber pants are a good idea just in case the tank tips over.

Needless to say, keep full concentration on what you are doing. Don't let anyone else into the room while you are working. ("Gee, I didn't see a sink, so I just threw my drink in that tank. Did I do something wrong?")

Know the materials involved. I knew a gunsmith who did a lot of handgun bluing. He had the habit of giving pistol magazines a quick polish and tossing them into the basket (the temp is too low to hurt the springs). But he didn't know that BHP magazines had aluminum followers. The follower dissolved in the tank and the spring released, throwing hot salts in his face. His goggles protected his eyes, but he was burned pretty badly.

Jim

Edited to add. I apparently used a no-no word, even though that is what that type of shower is called. I won't try to get around the nasty word check, you can guess at the word. Anyway, a chem lab shower is what you want.

OK, the correct term is "safety shower". By whatever name, you should have one. Also fire extinguishers, preferably CO2 that will smother a fire without spreading it or leaving residue.

Jim

 

[spiker44]

Awesome, thanks guys Jim K, joem1945, TINCANBANDIT and Stony. I am surely taking all this information to heart. Thanks again to all.

 

[4v50 Gary]

What about drainage and ability to hose down the floor? Do you have a floor drain?

 

[Jim K]

Another thought, if you don't mind. If you are doing bluing only for yourself (even if you might later sell the gun) there should be no problem. But if you are in the business, you will need an FFL and probably have to comply with the OSHA stuff. It is all the hassle involved that has driven most gunsmiths out of the hot tank bluing business; it is now done only by specialists who are big enough to deal with all the nitpicks and who don't take walk-in trade. That is the real reason for the rise of the various "paint" finishes instead of old fashioned (and good looking) blue.

Jim

 

[spiker44]

Thanks 4V50 Gary. I do have a floor drain. Jim K I seen a few guys in my area open for awhile and last but not to very long. I am doing it as a hobby for now. A few friends guns and exchange for reloads and such.

 

[carbine85]

I love the set up. I wish I had something like that. Move the propane tanks. The regulators are designed to vent and they should be vented to the outside. The tanks shouldn't be in that room.

 

[carbine85]

One more thing. Get 2 Carbon Monoxide detectors with displays in that room. I'm speaking from 40 years of experience working with fuels and burners.

 

[spiker44]

Thank you carbine85. Great idea on the CD detctors

 

[Jim K]

Gunsmith shops are like restaurants. They often start up as an offshoot of a hobby ("You are such a great cook, Aunt Minnie, you really should open a restaurant...") and just as quickly fail because the owner knows the field but has no idea how to run a business.

The complications of opening any business today are such that I always advise anyone considering it to first hire a lawyer experienced in advising on startups. Not cheap, but better than not knowing about some law or other and losing your whole investment plus paying a fine or going to jail. I need not point out that that goes double for a gun business where controversy may arise, or a business involving hazardous materials.

Jim