Hot loads in j frame.

[CZ9shooter]

I have done some searching and havent quite come up with the answers I am looking for. My questions pertains to aluminum j frames, model 637-2 specifically, and hotter than average loads. Namely, Buffalo Bore's heavy .38 spl +P 158gr. LSWCHP

The way I understand it is that this is not your basic FBI load. 1000 fps from a 2" barrel is pretty intense.

I happened upon a few boxes at my LGS the other day for a good price. I couldnt help but be persuded by those impressive numbers and ended up walking out with two boxes.

But I am now having a sort of buyers remorse. I have read about this particular load in the past, but never gave it much thought till now. I have recently come across negative reviews when considering lightweight aluminum guns. I knew about the punishing recoil. Thats not my concern. But beating up the gun or stretching out is.

Will a cylinder or two here and there do permanent damage to the aluminum frame or other components? My plan was to try this stuff out as a potential carry load (I am not satisfied with my current Federal load) if the recoil and blast arent too much to handle. However, I am now having second thoughts on even shooting one. Maybe I should sell these couple boxes and go with the standard pressure?

 

[Murcielago]

I doubt you'll shoot enough of them to do any damage to the gun. One cylinder's worth should be enough for you to not want to do it much.

 

[buck460XVR]

Your hand will give out before the gun does. The gun is rated for +p loads and warranted for life.......you hand/wrist, not so much.

 

[tubeshooter]

I'll put it to you this way... I personally would not shoot that particular load in my all steel .38 snub.

My particular specimen is not technically and officially rated for +P, but I have no issue with using it. Except that load (or something like it).


I might carry a cylinder for SD ammo, and if it came down to it of course I would use it. But I'm not that hung up on power with my .38, and I'm fine with most of the common, less nuclear SD offerings of the caliber.


Just me - but I would reserve such a load for .357 guns only. Which kind of defeats the purpose. I also would be scared to mix up those rounds and have them end up in my .38 somehow if I had them on hand. Or unknowingly give them to someone, God forbid. So I would avoid them on those counts. If I cared anything about a .38 I was shooting, I would not abuse it with that. I think this has come up before and my response was the same.

[EDIT: I would not get rid of them if I already had them. I bet they'd be dandy out of a rifle. Just be sure to keep close track of them!]

 

[CZ9shooter]

The forces of pressure dont concern me too much. Everything should be designed to handle that. But arent there other forces at work? Some people have gotten me worried about frame stretch. I guess they think that the relatively high weight of the bullet, combined with the high rate at which it accelerates, will generate other forces besides simple PSI that the gun may not be designed to withstand. It kinda makes sense to me. The case and bullet will repel each other inside the frame upon ignition.

 

[CZ9shooter]

I'll put it to you this way... I personally would not shoot that particular load in my all steel .38 snub.

My particular specimen is not technically and officially rated for +P, but I have no issue with using it. Except that load (or something like it).


I might carry a cylinder for SD ammo, and if it came down to it of course I would use it. But I'm not that hung up on power with my .38, and I'm fine with most of the common, less nuclear SD offerings of the caliber.


Just me - but I would reserve such a load for .357 guns only. Which kind of defeats the purpose. I also would be scared to mix up those rounds and have them end up in my .38 somehow if I had them on hand. Or unknowingly give them to someone, God forbid. So I would avoid them on those counts. If I cared anything about a .38 I was shooting, I would not abuse it with that. I think this has come up before and my response was the same.

I admit, this Buffalo Bore load may be overkill for a .38. I set out that day looking for either Golden Sabers or the Gold Dot short barrel load. I have been trying to find one of these for months, ever since I picked up the 637. So far no luck.

 

[tubeshooter]

The gun will not shatter into pieces if you shoot your 2 boxes in it. Just realize that you are probably shortening the life expectancy of the gun to a degree.

Exactly how much... I couldn't tell you. Probably not enough to matter. My only .38 is my very first gun and so that factors into it's treatment a lot in my case.


Try a cylinder or two and see what you think. You can always use the rest for carry ammo. No big deal. I'm sure you'll run into some more conventional SD ammo sooner or later. Tell us what you think after you try them!

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Will a cylinder or two here and there do permanent damage to the aluminum frame or other components?

Nope.

Standard pressure load would be better in terms of accuracy and recoil.

I've shot that load in a S&W 640-1, which is steel. It had comparable recoil to .357 rounds. Followup shots will be slow.

Personally, I have excluded that round from carry in a 642/442...

Still, impressive ballistic performance from BB!

 

[Radagast]

The cases of frame stretching/ timing issues / cylinder slop that I have heard of all involved guns from the seventies or earlier.

The 637-2 is built on the larger J magnum frame and is rated for PlusP. So there will be no earth shattering kaboom, although it may feel like it. Obviously you will accelerate wear on the gun. Firing a few rounds for familiarization should not be an issue, if it is then send the gun to S&W for a check up.

 

[GRIZ22]

Jeff Cooper related a load in "Cooper on Handguns" he used in a S&W Model 60. It was a 160 gr Speer Half-Jacketed SWC that gave 1000 fps in the M60. He considered this an adequate load. The M60 would suffer frame stretching and other mechanical problems after about 500 rds of this load. I imagine an alloy frame wouldn't get near that number.

I don't think you are going to explode your gun with a cylinder or two of that ammo. I wouldn't use it in anything smaller than a K frame. I carry std velocity SWCs or wadcutters in a J frame.

If you want more power get a 357.

 

[Water-Man]

Your largest concern will be bullet set-back.

 

[David E]

Your largest concern will be bullet set-back.

Wrong term. Bullet set back is where the bullets are driven deeper into the case. That won't happen in a revolver.

The concern is bullet pull, where the bullets jump crimp under recoil and protrude out of the chamber, binding the cylinder. Of primary concern is cartridge number 4 and especially 5 in a 5-shot revolver. Something to check.

 

[Water-Man]

OK, let's call it jumping the crimp.

 

[Deaf Smith]

If you want a .357.... GET a .357!

The one on the left is an original 640 Centennial in .38 spl. (my first carry gun when CHL started here in Texas.)

The one on the right is a 640-1 (my present summer carry gun.)

I've used scandium .357s with real .357 loads and I can tell you it is way overloaded as for controllability issues. The all steel .357 above is still uncontrollable with full .357 loads but does well with Buffalo Bore low flash low recoil .357 DPX 125s (my current round now.)

The .38 pictured I used some Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWHP at 1000 fps (it does chrono that out of a 2 inch... I know cause I chronoed it in mine) but was not controllable when fired one handed.

My suggestion is, if you seek to use an airweight .38 snub (say the 642) then use a 125gr or less load made for snub .38s and go no higher in weight.

If in a all steel snub you can use Buffalo Bore 158gr SWHPs that are made for 2 inch .38s at standard pressures. They get that 158gr at 850 or so and should be controllable one handed.

I push the one handed control cause many a time you may have to fire one handed in self defense.

Deaf

 

[wnycollector]

I picked up a box of the BuffaloBore version of the FBI load a few years ago. I ran 10 rounds of it through my M36 and then promptly went back to my favorite 38 defensive ammo, the Remington R38S12 (+P 158gr LHP). The BB ammo's recoil was such that it slowed my followup shots to much, so that the added velocity/energy didn't mean much to me. The Remington ammo is much more controllable and will still open up to .60" AND do 12"+ in ballistic gel so I'm very comfortable carrying it.

 

[MartinS]

"I picked up a box of the BuffaloBore version of the FBI load a few years ago. I ran 10 rounds of it through my M36..." Ah, real data, on point, thank you.

 

[Old Fuff]

One time while having a chat with some folks from BB I ask what snubby they'd recommend for extended use of their top-end .38 Special ammunition. The only one they agreed on was Ruger's SP101, which was at the time chambered in .38 Special.

Personally, when I consider that the regular .38 Special won't cut it (which isn't often) I turn to my Taurus model 445 in .44 Special.

 

[1KPerDay]

Why don't you just smash your hand in a die stamping press...

 

[MICHAEL T]

the old 37 was no +P loads I don't know about the new ones But 1 might shoot 5 to check out. Then carry 5 for SD but not a study diet.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

It's a very impressive load. But bullet on target is more important and I don't really think its an appropriate round for me in the J-frame platform. Doesn't hurt to have ammo in storage though! No buyers remorse necessary.

 

[fastbolt]

I have one of those limited run of 37-2 DAO snubs made for an overseas contract which wasn't completed. The barrel on mine isn't marked for +P (although apparently some barrels were marked +P on other guns from the same run, maybe with extra barrels made for 442's which were rated for +P?). Dunno.

Anyway, I called and spoke with someone about using +P in mine. There was apparently some initial confusion, and the customer service person wanted to check with someone else when I pressed for details. I was eventually told (after they'd called over and checked with someone else in Production), that my "pre-Magnum" aluminum frame 37-2 ought not to be used with +P ammunition. Okay. Enough said. I use standard pressure loads in that particular Airweight J-frame. I save the +P loads for the other Airweights I own which are marked as being rated for them.

Since it's my 37-2, I'd rather not risk having the frame crack below where the barrel is crush fit, myself. It's been known to happen in older Airweights, especially when hot loads were being used.

If one of our guys or gals were to ask me (as a firearms instructor and S&W armorer) whether they ought to use +P ammo in an older Airweight which isn't specifically rated (and marked on the barrel) for a diet of +P, I'd obviously say they ought to stick with standard pressure loads.

If you want an Airweight that was built to handle a diet of +P loads, buy one. They make a bunch of them.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

We tested the BB load from my 640 and while velocity was 1000 fps as advertised the bullet came apart as it is too soft. I think the Remington version would be better as it stays together to make a nice mushroom.

 

[Hangingrock]

On the other hand I have a S&W M640 38Spl that is marked: TESTED FOR +P+ after the initial production run the TESTED FOR +P+ lettering was omitted as there was not an industry standard for +P+.

 

[fastbolt]

On the other hand I have a S&W M640 38Spl that is marked: TESTED FOR +P+ after the initial production run the TESTED FOR +P+ lettering was omitted as there was not an industry standard for +P+.

I used one of those early 640 .38's to burn up a lot of Win 110gr +P+ loads that needed to be "destroyed". Made shooting +P in my 642 feel comparatively "better".

 

[waidmann]

A thousand or so and you get a new gun.