How dangerous would a Glock be sans trigger safety?

[Skribs]

I own an XDm and a M&P with the APEX trigger. So...not exactly Glocks, but similar enough. Both of these handguns have the same trigger safety that Glock does. Looking at other handguns online, like SR9, Caracal, and Taurus 24/7 pistols, they all have a similar trigger safety. (And, I can't be 100% sure, but it looks like the FNS is similar to the M&P, correct me if I'm wrong...even if I'm wrong, civilians can only get it with a manual safety).

However, even with the trigger safety, most people wouldn't want a lighter trigger than what's already on there (around 5# is the minimum I've seen recommended for carry). It's the same with 1911s - there is a minimum weight you would want, even with the manual safety - to feel comfortable and safe carrying it.

So how dangerous would a Glock be without that trigger safety? Or any striker fired pistol, assuming a ~6# trigger pull? Many say that the trigger safety doesn't prevent the trigger from being pulled anyway, as it requires you to pull the trigger to deactivate it.

Note that this is not a "I have a Glock and I duct taped the trigger safety so it's always off am I an idiot lol?" but more a question of curiosity.

 

[jmr40]

The only thing the glock trigger "thingy" does is prevent inertia from pulling the trigger if dropped. The hinged trigger on the XD does the same thing. For that matter the blades in the Savage Accutrigger and copies does that too.

 

[barnbwt]

Wait, wouldn't inertia pull the safety lever down along with the trigger? I always thought it disengaged the firing pin safety (total assumption there; correct me if I'm wrong) as the trigger pull cocked the striker the last bit before dropping it on the hammer.

H&K MP7's have the "thingie" now, too (so does my airsoft )

TCB

 

[Skribs]

All the Glock trigger lever does is block the trigger from moving back unless the trigger is flush. there is a stop on the back of the trigger that moves forward (flush) when you pull the safety back.

The velocity required for the trigger to pull itself on impact would require the gun to be dropped from a significant height (i.e. off a tall building, tree, or out an aircraft).

 

[jmr40]

I've been wrong before, but think I'm right. Will do some research and correct myself if wrong.

 

[jmr40]

The trigger safety is a lever incorporated into the trigger. When the trigger safety is in the forward position it blocks the trigger from moving rearward. The trigger safety and the trigger must be fully depressed at the same time to fire the pistol. If the trigger safety is not depressed, the trigger will not move rearward and allow the pistol to fire. The trigger safety is designed to protect against firing if the pistol is dropped or the trigger is subjected to lateral pressure.

This is a direct quote from Glocks website.

http://us.glock.com/technology

 

[mgmorden]

Wait, wouldn't inertia pull the safety lever down along with the trigger? I always thought it disengaged the firing pin safety (total assumption there; correct me if I'm wrong)

The trigger safety just unlocks the trigger. The trigger itself (or rather, the transfer bar attached to it) deactivates the striker block.

Its kinda like the 1911 grip safety - designed to lessen the chance of the trigger pulling when you didn't intend it to. The 1911 needs to be griped - the Glock and newer guns need more or less direct pressure on the trigger otherwise the trigger safety catches on the frame and keeps it from being pulled.

Personally, I don't think they do THAT much, but then again I don't think they hurt anything either so I don't see why there'd be any big desire to have a gun without one.

 

[Big Shrek]

The velocity required for the trigger to pull itself on impact would require the gun to be dropped from a significant height (i.e. off a tall building, tree, or out an aircraft).

Not Quite. As with the case at ERML, it only took a drop from a belt holster to fire the Glock...
He had a gunsmith remove the trigger safety & do some other fluff race mods...as it was meant for competition only...

Well, so much for that idea, at one of the monthly IPSC events, he fumbled the darn thing...
and it went off when it hit the ground, firing a single .45acp into his abdomen...
which sent him to the hospital, where they did manage to save the idiots life...

Good Things...nobody but the idiot was hurt...
ERML then instituted a policy that all competition firearms must be checked pre-competition to comply with safety.

Bad Things...the idiot was dang near killed, scared the heck out of the rest of the shooters on the line,
Glock got a big black eye until the investigation was completed and they found out about the mods...
The Gunsmith got a Very Heavy Fine, lost his FFL & job...last seen working for cox cable as a phone rep...

I don't call him an idiot for dropping it, that happens when folks are going as fast as they can,
But I do call folks idiots when they disable a safety device meant not only to keep them safe, but others around them safe as well.


Bottom Line, don't <deleted> mess with the <deleted[i/]> safeties. I can't say it any nicer.
I don't wanna get shot when someone drops their dang pistol...
chances are my response would be considered not nice...

 

[Weevil]

Wait, wouldn't inertia pull the safety lever down along with the trigger?

No because the lever is much smaller and lighter. Since it has less mass than the trigger and the transfer bar it's attached to it has less inertia and is far less likely to be put in motion by a "normal" drop.

I always thought it disengaged the firing pin safety (total assumption there; correct me if I'm wrong) as the trigger pull cocked the striker the last bit before dropping it on the hammer.

No there is a hump on the transfer bar that pushes the firing-pin/striker safety out of the way.

The little lever looking thing on the trigger is just a drop safety to keep the trigger and transfer bar from moving due to inertia if the pistol is dropped. As mentioned the same basic purpose as the grip safety on a 1911.

 

[Dave P.]

I don't see it as doing much. I suppose if you had a holster that was
"wrong" in some fashion it might keep the gun from firing if just
the side of the trigger was pulled on.
Given the weight ( lack of it ) I can't see dropping a Glock at any speed
being able to pull the trigger.
I have 3 Glocks and don't see much value in the trigger safety
one way or the other.
Dave

 

[Nom de Forum]

Not Quite. As with the case at ERML, it only took a drop from a belt holster to fire the Glock...
He had a gunsmith remove the trigger safety & do some other fluff race mods...as it was meant for competition only...

Well, so much for that idea, at one of the monthly IPSC events, he fumbled the darn thing...
and it went off when it hit the ground, firing a single .45acp into his abdomen...
which sent him to the hospital, where they did manage to save the idiots life...

Good Things...nobody but the idiot was hurt...
ERML then instituted a policy that all competition firearms must be checked pre-competition to comply with safety.

Bad Things...the idiot was dang near killed, scared the heck out of the rest of the shooters on the line,
Glock got a big black eye until the investigation was completed and they found out about the mods...
The Gunsmith got a Very Heavy Fine, lost his FFL & job...last seen working for cox cable as a phone rep...

I don't call him an idiot for dropping it, that happens when folks are going as fast as they can,
But I do call folks idiots when they disable a safety device meant not only to keep them safe, but others around them safe as well.


Bottom Line, don't effing mess with the effing safeties. I can't say it any nicer.
I don't wanna get shot when someone drops their dang pistol...
chances are my response would be considered not nice...

It was once explained to me that these things happen because of the serious shortage of sabre-toothed cats available to cull the idiots from the herd before they can breed.

 

[TAKtical]

The safety in the middle of the trigger is not a drop safety. If the mods he had done somehow deactivated the DROP SAFETY, that scenario is possible. Adjustable triggers that allow for adjustment of the pre travel and over travel can deactivate the drop safety at the extreme ends of adjustment and the manual gives instruction on how to check that you have not adjusted too far as to deactivate the drop safety. There is always going to be an unsafe individual out there. Its my opinion that the little thingy in the middle of the trigger is pointless. A gimmick. A requirement for importation possibly. I dont know. But it definitely isnt a drop safety.

 

[Old Fuff]

The trigger safety originated in the 1890's by Iver Johnson, who had a patent on the design and used it in a line of enclosed hammer/top break revolvers.

It does little to make Glock pistols safer. Keeping the trigger finger away from the trigger until you intend to fire does.

 

[Skribs]

Shrek, it sounds like more was done to that gun than simply removing the safety.

Bottom Line, don't effing mess with the effing safeties. I can't say it any nicer.

I wasn't planning on messing with the safety on my Glock(-type pistol). I was more wondering if it was necessary for all the new striker-fired pistols that are coming out to have one, or if they're just doing it because Glock does and it's more acceptable that way.

 

[stressed]

The trigger safety originated in the 1890's by Iver Johnson, who had a patent on the design and used it in a line of enclosed hammer/top break revolvers.

It does little to make Glock pistols safer. Keeping the trigger finger away from the trigger until you intend to fire does.

But don't you remember? Glock is the original Safe-Action(TM) pistol

I'm not even sure what they mean by "Safe Action"

 

[Skribs]

Because the action is the safety, maybe? Can't go "thought the safety was on" with this one, because the safety is always on unless you break a fundamental rule.

 

[tarosean]

But don't you remember? Glock is the original Safe-Action(TM) pistol

Yet another thing that had been around for quite some time before the advent of glock

 

[Gtscotty]

"Papa says it won't hurt us"....
Wow, and to think, all this time I had no idea that it was actually ok for kids to snuggle with handguns, as long as they have trigger safety's. Thanks Iver Johnson!

 

[1911 guy]

The little flipper on a Glock trigger, officially known as a "dingus", does fine for preventing things like drops, etc. With proper handling it is equally safe as any other handgun, to include everything from the 1911 to the plastic pocket gun designed this morning. With improper handling, though, it is as unsafe as a two year old running through the house with a butcher knife. Nothing good is going to happen.

Frankly, I find the whole dingus contraption silly. Put a proper safety on a firearm or don't. The middle road is pointless. Just keep your bloody booger hook off the bloody bang switch and all will be well.

I'm no fan of Glock, but it's just a machine. 99.999% of bad things that happen are idiot induced, not a design flaw.

 

[45_auto]

The Gunsmith got a Very Heavy Fine, lost his FFL & job

What was the gunsmith charged with? What agency fined him? What did he do that was illegal?

What did the ATF use as an excuse to revoke his FFL? It's not illegal to remove a safety or do trigger work on a gun.

Sounds like a load of internet crap to me.

 

[Takem406]

All my Glocks have 3.5# trigger connectors. That's the beauty of a Glock, an amazing trigger for $25! Just don't out your finger on the trigger unless your going to shoot.

 

[Fiv3r]

I have nothing to add other than the fns has a hinged trigger that I find way more comfortable than the Glock dingus. I like the trigger safety, but I also like the fact it has a manual safety for transport.

 

[marv]

The trigger "safety" still allows the trigger to be moved backward by anything that contacts it with enough force. Finger, stick, Thingie on the end of your jacket cord, stuff in your pocket. That's one reason I refuse to carry a Glock.

 

[Steve C]

So how dangerous would a Glock be without that trigger safety? Or any striker fired pistol, assuming a ~6# trigger pull?

Glocks have 3 passive safeties to prevent accidental discharge, the trigger safety being only one. The other 2 are the firing pin block safety and the drop safety shelf. Safeties do not exist to prevent a gun from going off if the trigger is intentionally pulled, they exist to prevent inadvertent discharge from other common mishaps like dropping the handgun.

The trigger lever/safety is there to help prevent accidental discharge from something other than a trigger finger purposely causing a discharge. The purpose is to prevent things like clothing, retention straps, twigs and other vegetation that may get inside the trigger guard from pulling the trigger. It is not there to prevent discharge from accidentally dropping the gun, that is what the other 2 safeties are for. That doesn't mean that one cannot get a stick to set a Glock off especially if one tries to defeat the system intentionally. In real life the system works well enough though no system is fool proof.

I would say that the trigger safety lever and other similar devices in DA handguns makes the chances of accidental discharge by things other than the trigger finger less probable and therefore is a useful safety device.

 

[Big_John1961]

It just sounds to me like a bad idea all around.