How do you guys feel about this...

[Lakeshore]

Alberta King, the mother of Martin Luther King Jr., was murdered by a deranged gunman while sitting at the organ in the Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta in 1974.

An armed congregant may have been able to stop that attack. We'll never know. In any event that was nearly four decades ago and it's still illegal in Georgia to carry a firearm into a church even with a concealed carry permit. Go figure.

 

[Low Budget Shooter]

Dear THR,

Isn't it interesting how the various legislatures make laws restricting the carry of guns in the very places where they are most often used to kill the defenseless? Or is it the reverse of that---wherever the legislatures prohibit the carry of guns, those places become the most popular killing fields? In jurisdictions where carry is outlawed in virtually all places, or in all places for virtually everyone, the whole area becomes a killing field. Calling all government officials, all you have to do to reduce these kinds of gun rampages is to repeal all of your gun bans! Think of all the money you will save in metal detector equipment and such. You can all give yourselves a raise!

LBS

 

[Webbj0219]

put your trust in God; but mind to keep your powder dry

Oliver cromwell

 

[stevelyn]

In all the church attacks there was no divine intervention or legions of angels to stop the attacks. Attacks that were mitigated were by prudent, prepared people. In churches where people were neither prudent or prepared, it was a bloodbath.

In Glock We Trust.

 

[AKElroy]

In all the church attacks there was no divine intervention or legions of angels to stop the attacks.

Of course their was. In Colorado, a well trained, well armed female security gaurd protected that congregation by virtue in my view of God's devine providence. Don't assume that God's protection is required to be miraculous. A well armed congregant may be the exact vessel he uses to provide his protection.

 

[Hud]

A well armed congregant may be the exact vessel he uses to provide his protection.

Doesn't have to be just the congregation....

 

[LHRGunslinger]

I'm not a christian but I do feel uncomfortable about bringing a weapon into a house of god. I'd take it to church, and then leave my weapon in my coat in the cloakroom or something of the like. But from my point of view bringing anything specifically designed to take life is strictly verboten. A pocket knife you use for every day tasks is fine but a handgun is a big no-no.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Church Shootings

For those who feel that "armed in church" is somehow the posture of the "ranting tin-foil hat" paranoid crowd, allow me to introduce you to a sprinkling of house-of-worship actions:

2010:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0...ess-in-church-shooting-case-in-Richmond-Calif
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/15/california.church.shooting/index.html

2009:
http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news...oting-Underscores-the-Need-for-Security-.html

2008:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting

2007:
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=45077
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316322,00.html


And one of the more famous events, from 1993:
http://superstore.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=1960



Now, it would seem to me, given that these "events" aren't confined to one coast or the other, to the North or the South, to the mountains or the plains, that "armed in church" is simply a matter of prudence.

You are free, of course, to disarm yourself.



Me? I'm thinkin' a nice compact, discreet 9mm, with an 8-round mag and a 7-round spare.

The pastor's flock may be lambs, but there's no reason they should also be led to slaughter.

 

[RevDerb]

The idea that 'nobody needs a gun in church' is true, but only if you are satisfied with saving only your soul. After all, if you die in a church because you were unable to defend yourself, your eternal soul goes to heaven, right?

On the other hand, I prefer to be able to save my body and mortal life from harm as well. I'm not a churchgoer, but if I was, I would carry.

Sitting in church doesn't get you into heaven any more than sitting in the garage gets you into the winner's circle at Indy. The only ticket that will open the gates is faith in Jesus Christ and accepting His atoning work on the cross. Entrance into the Kingdom of heaven cannot be earned.

 

[Sam1911]

I know not everyone likes to read ... you know ... ALL the words in a thread, so I'll repeat what I said before:

While I appreciate those of the faith that have taken time to explain their interpretations of holy writ, religions discussions are not allowed here for reasons explained clearly in our forum rules.

So, please, respectfully, do not post any more commentary on whether the Bible/Jesus would want you to carry and/or defend yourself.

If we can stick to the LAW and whatever SOCIAL implications you find compelling, that's fine. If not, we'll have to close this down.

Understood?

Now, this...

I'm not a christian but I do feel uncomfortable about bringing a weapon into a house of god. I'd take it to church, and then leave my weapon in my coat in the cloakroom or something of the like.

Is pretty bad advice in my opinion. If you go out into the world with a gun, you MUST retain control of it at all times. Leaving a gun in the cloakroom of any public place -- and certainly a church with kids and all kinds of other random folks wandering through -- is just HORRIBLY IRRESPONSIBLE. Even locking it in your car would be better! (Not good...but better.)

The safest place for your gun is in your holster. PERIOD. Leave it there. Once you leave your house, your sidearm should not leave the holster for any reason until you are home -- unless required by your local laws. Fooling with the gun, unholstering/reholstering, etc. is how negligent discharges happen in public places. This is "Concealed Carry Rules 101" stuff, but obviously many of "us" don't quite get it.

But from my point of view bringing anything specifically designed to take life is strictly verboten. A pocket knife you use for every day tasks is fine but a handgun is a big no-no.

Again, this cannot become a discussion of religion, but a non-Christian claiming that the church (or God) forbids a defensive weapon seems to be both logically and historically suspect.

 

[ol' scratch]

I have solved the problem concerning carrying in church. I just don't go to church anymore. I have embraced my life of debauchery and sin. Look for me on Sundays at the range. It's more of a spiritual connection than going to church and listening to a stuffed shirt tell me how to interpret the Bible.

 

[chaplain tom]

Do what is legal and you feel is necessary and stop talking to people about it.

I agree with the "do what is legal" part of your post. But I feel we MUST continue to talk to people about this. Somebody has to try to educate people about 2A or we may lose it. When laws are wrong they are wrong and we must talk to people about the logic in changing those "bad" laws. I know we're preaching to the chior here, but we still need to get this message out. Maybe talking about it on forums like THR will give us insight we didn't have before the subject was brought up here. I know that I have learned a lot here on this site.

 

[BBQLS1]

Google "church shootings"

 

[Cmiller21b]

I carry regularly with the blessings of both of our pastors. They have ask that ccw and policemen carry to church in the wake of all of the church robberies and shootings. Come on over!

 

[MinnMooney]

I'd carry to any and all events and just not say anything - period.

 

[Carter]

Church pews suck when carrying IWB. If I wasnt careful my gun loudly banged on the back of the wooden pew..

 

[TNT in Round Rock]

Arfin thank you for those links .. I needed some examples just the other day ..

 

[Deltaboy1984]

As a SBC Pastor I carry and love that several of my LEO's carry also. Churches need to wake up and in states where their is issues they need to form legal Security squads. I have known of churchs who were robbed in the hallway as the offering was being taken to the office. We have 2 armed LEO's in plain clothes that escort the money bag to the safe. After services they escort the CFO to the bank for the deposit.

 

[Ryder]

I would request the permission of the preacher in order to attend with a clear conscience. If that is not agreeable I would avoid the place.

 

[gun guy]

It wouldn't surprise me if the framers of the constitution took guns to church, I'm sure in days gone by guns showed up at churches. if its concealed, no one knows you have it anyway. It probably depends a lot on the folks that attend, the area and threat level you are in and personal common sense.

 

[Brass Rain]

I think there's some kind of inherent belief that churches are gun free zones without the sign. That there's some kind of amnesty of churches from maniacs on shooting sprees, and therefore no good people need to carry their firearms inside for protection. But that's silly. Maniacs can pop up in churches just as easily as convenience stores, banks, or schools. And if you're legally able to do it, I see absolutely no reason not to. Especially in a neighborhood like you described.

 

[oldbanjo]

I think if you were to look at the old laws, at least in the south it was required for church goers to carry their gun to church, for protection from Indians. I was at a funeral home one night and a friend said its nice to see you without your gun, I laughed and said why do you think I have a sport coat on for, it's to cover my gun, his wife (a cop) felt my coat and laughed. If there's no metal detector I carry my gun, except Gov. bldgs.

 

[Carter]

Well since I started this thread I guess I should update the situation for a little closure...

Since getting my concealed carry the church has decided to get a security team, which I promptly volunteered for. The pastor and us came up with various rules and we got on the subject of what to do during different emergencies. I brought up church shootings and that they were only ever stopped by the shooter running out of ammo or someone in the church who was carrying putting them down. The pastor replied by saying he knew a lot of people carried at his old church and he assumed the same here. He also stated he didn't mind.

That brought about an interesting story from him. At his old church they had motion sensors as a part of their alarm system. One night it went off saying there was an intruder in the building. 10 or more church members showed up armed better than most swat teams and raided the church to find out it was a balloon moving around.


Due to my conceal carry class, currently going though BLET training, and understanding of applicable laws I got put in charge of teaching everyone what they can and can not do...fun stuff.


Overall it turned out good. When your preacher shows up to the church with a shotgun to clear it when they think someone is inside I'm pretty sure me carrying is rather acceptable.

 

[Buck Snort]

My church gave away a Daniel Defense M4 with an Aimpoint after service a few weeks ago. They also had an organized CCW class amongst it members. I love my church.

DAMN!! That's almost enough to make me take up religion!!

 

[stevelyn]

Of course their was. In Colorado, a well trained, well armed female security gaurd protected that congregation by virtue in my view of God's devine providence. Don't assume that God's protection is required to be miraculous. A well armed congregant may be the exact vessel he uses to provide his protection.

That was the point I was trying to make.......helping those that help themselves and such. Sometimes the translation is lost in the written word.